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Which obvious design flaws do you wish bike manufacturers would address?
I'll start - it would be nice to have:
- forks and air shocks which didn't need replacing the second you get the teeniest, tiniest scratch on the anodizing;
- forks and air shocks which could be guaranteed to work in cold weather (Fox Triad, I'm looking at you);
- pivots which simply didn't need replacing. At all. I have never heard of someone replacing pivots on a MX bike, but might be wrong?
- more generally, a different approach to component design. Do you know what? I used to have a Marin East Peak, then a Santa Cruz Bullit (and an FSR in between). I never ONCE noticed or thought about brake jack or pedal bob despite these bikes being among the worst for it, yet there is now an entire industry seemingly oriented around eliminating it (see the new Evil bike). It's just ridiculous; a solution to a problem which the bike industry itself made up, not regular riders. OK, OK, I know that's how the bike industry (and all consumer industries) sustains itself. But I just wish there were fewer "elegant" designs oriented toward these made-up problems (Specialized, your nob-friendly saddles are a prime example of this) and more robust, ugly, mass-produced user-friendly kit that didn't break and didn't need to be oiled with unicorn pi$$ on a thrice-daily basis.
We currently have the equivalent of the fancy-pants plastic M-16 A1 rifle which jammed and basically killed a load of soldiers when it was first introduced in 'Nam, when what we need is an ugly cheap old AK which you can bury in the sand for 6 months and it'll still work fine when you take it out. I mean really why should suspension become unusable when it gets a tiny little chip on the anodising? These bikes are meant to be ridden through rock gardens full of roost, not kept in museums.
Funniest thing about suspension components, is that they used to have the little stanchion covers on them, then somehow that became unfashionable...
(happened with motorbikes too)
It's now fashionable to have easily scratched (and eventually retired) components...
Marzocchi addressed problems 1 and 2 in the 90s and continue to!
Most mtb compnents seem to be quite fragile, and wear out in double quick time.
Holyhutzpa, fork boots could also hold a lot of mud next to your stanchions and cover up corrosion and othe rbad stuff. not a problem for regular mechanics but bad for lazier people.
rear mechs. hanging out in the breeze picking up all sorts of muck just waiting to be ripped off by a passing rock and tossed into your spokes. great.
will someone hurry up and make use of the Pinion gearbox?
We currently have the equivalent of the fancy-pants plastic M-16 A1 rifle which jammed and basically killed a load of soldiers when it was first introduced in 'Nam, when what we need is an ugly cheap old AK which you can bury in the sand for 6 months and it'll still work fine when you take it out.
Yes but the AK is quite heavy, suffers from terrible muzzle climb and nasty recoil, while the M16 eventually evolved into the M16 A2, as used by the SAS who probably know a thing or two about guns.
You want the AK-47 of mountain bikes? Grab an old steel frame out of a skip, stick some rigid forks on it, singlespeed it. Job done.
I'll keep saving my pennies for that 2011 Enduro carbon in green with 1x10 XTR.
My fox forks have the air spring inside the stanchion so any damage to the outside doesn't impact on the air spring. file and fill and it doesn't upset the hydrodynamic bearing too badly either.
I'd like to see bike journo's that report the seedier side of the industry, bad cs, serial frame failures, flawed products, and suchlike, rather than just going 'ooh shinee' at new releases, then maybe some manufacturers might actually give a shit
'dons Kevlar suit'
'steps away'
If bouncey bike maintenance really boils your piss this much, why not jack it all in for a more easily maintainable Rigid SS?
A bit like yourself OP, I think a "Good" MTB is one which can be used hard and maintained with minimal fuss, bother, fancy tools and expensive spare parts, and to be fair there are a few bits which manage this, but they are few and far between...
I suppose any bit of equipment which it intended primarily for rattling over rocks, and grinding through mud should really be a bit more agricultural in it's design...
personally I think using bushes rather than bearings in MTB pivots makes a bit more sense, cheaper, easier to replace and actually designed for that particular type of use, but no we have to have bikes covered in roller bearings these days because they are "Smoother" and the replacement parts kit can have a way bigger markup...
As for mechs? The current lot are actually pretty robust, I think what was effectively a gear change device intended for a far more benign environment (the road) has evolved pretty wel to meet the needs of hairy, ham fisted MTBers... Everyone blathers on about gearboxes but the only real sensibly priced, sensibly light alternative to the mech seems to be Rohloff/Alfine type hub gears at the moment...
Whinging aside, it could be far worse, you could be riding the same kit that was knocking about twenty odd years ago... bikes have improved...
mech strength and design reached it's peak (imo) with the old range of saint. I ran one on my playbike for 4 years before it died, in that time it had taken impacts big enough to bend 2 rear axels (big solid m8 bolts). Sadly the replacement system is ligher and hangs off your mech hanger instead.
A lot of maintainance is also down to pickiness, imo. Modern forks with scratched to hell stanchions still work better than sid 100s from a decade ago..
Look at it this way.
If you owned a highly tuned sports car and regularly thrashed it at a race track would you expect to have to give it a bit more TLC than the cheap runaround you use to go the supermarket?
I was a bit disapointed the other day when by XTR pedals finally broke then I remembered they were 5 years old and had taken so many knocks you couldn't read the logo on them anymore.
Agree with the point about suspension pivots though! I'd take a 200gram increase in frame weight for pivots that lasted 10 years instead of 1
You don't have to replace forks when the anodising gets scratched. I don't.
You could make bikes with everlasting bearings, but it'd weigh a lot.
Re the brake jack thing - bikes have become much better over the years. That is good, not bad.
Agree with the point about suspension pivots though! I'd take a 200gram increase in frame weight for pivots that lasted 10 years instead of 1
Your bearings last one year? Tried an Orange 5?
The issue anyway is sealing, not size. It could be substantially more expensive and heavier, and still not work very well. Wet UK MTBing is an incredibly difficult engineering environment.
Often when people whinge about new stuff breaking you find that they expect new stuff to work without any preventative or regular maintenence. Dispite it being used in the shite.
Modern cars fail far less than old ones, but still need an oil change, modern aeroplanes dont fall out of the sky like old ones but still need maintenance.
Often its old stuff that did very little which allowed you to get away with little or no maint. Like your childhood bike which you actually didnt ride far or for long and didnt try riding it down Snowdon in the rain.
Rear mechs are still with us because they are cheap and work well. Sure you can spend shed loads on one, but a basic LX type one will work and in 20 years of riding Ive only broken one, which cost bugger all to replace.
Some stuff is so cheap its not worth maintaining though.
jhw - Memberforks and air shocks which didn't need replacing the second you get the teeniest, tiniest scratch on the anodizing
My revelations have a load of scratches courtesy of a jaggy mountain in france and some barbed wire in scotland... That was about a year ago, still working absolutely perfectly. Some forks seem temperamental about it but the good ones aren't.
Hope pro 2 rear hub. Why continue to put alloy free hubs on, when they know that they get gouged to hell by any cassette lower than xt 😕
Cause no one would buy them if they weighed 'how much???" from stock...
sambob - MemberHope pro 2 rear hub. Why continue to put alloy free hubs on, when they know that they get gouged to hell by any cassette lower than xt
People buy it. Doesn't bother me, I put SLX cassettes on my bike with a mavic steel freehub too. Only problem I have with it is that they claim it's only cosmetic which is what's known in the trade as Bulls**t.
(Why Orange kept speccing their bikes with pro 2s and low-end cassettes, well, that's a different question)
I'm going to get a pro 2 hub, because they last for ever and i like the click, but i might end up getting a steel freehub before i completely mash the alloy one.
The marzocchi effect.Great forks,super plush,reliable,minimal servicing.....but a bit heavy.So no one bought them.
Light-Cheap-Strong....Choose 2.
Eh... marzocchi have been legendary for their unreliability lately 😕 I don't know how deserved it is but that's by the by, you can't say the only reason nobody bought them was the weight.
cable routing - why does it NEVER make sense?
i know lots of bikes are designed for 'front-brake-on-the-left' countries, but even my 'designed-in-britain-for-britain' frames defy logic.
every cable guide ever made has been put in the wrong place.
maybe, to save money, cable guides are attached by trainee cake decorators working in the dark...
The AK47, the M16 (all models) and the SA80 all have the inherent flaw of killing people....
Little bits that can be easily broken but can't be replaced.
The lock-out lever on my DT-Swiss shock is nice and light and magnesiumy, but the end has snapped off. Can I get a new one?
there's some cracking kit around these days. I just avoid all the pimp stuff and although it's probably great basic stuff suits me fine.
Northwind....I was talking about older Marzocchi's 🙄
They redesigned them to be lighter and have more bells and whistles so people would buy them and in the process lost the reliability (jury is out on the latest iteration).
user-removed - Member
The AK47, the M16 (all models) and the SA80 all have the inherent flaw of killing people....
Not for nothing are they known as the Commencal of the assault rifle world. 8)
The reason Marzocchi lost reliability was because they outsourced production, not because they added too much stuff.
molgrips - Member
The reason Marzocchi lost reliability was because they outsourced production, not because they added too much stuff.
Wasn't the shitty mk1 TST2 damper introduced before they outsourced the production? That thing was a sack of shite. Crap reliability and it performed worse than the competition.
chains, external gears and gear cables for me
basically if it needs lubing its not meant for dragging thru the filth
The AK47, the M16 (all models) and the SA80 all have the inherent flaw of killing people....
Flaw? That's a design goal. What did you think they were for?
That's what Ride-on cables are for kimbers 🙂
- forks and air shocks which could be guaranteed to work in cold weather (Fox Triad, I'm looking at you);
Was you ever around when Elastomer was used as the shock or Onza used it in their spd pedals? Basically went solid on cold days and on hot days or prolonged downhill went like jello.
BTW the AK47 is a very accurate weapon when used in single shot. And your SA80 was such a wonderful weapon when it was first introduced 😉
Funny, I agree with almost all the points above, so when it comes to bad design all I can think of is my Lezyne saddle bag.
Big jangly metal zip that makes a racket on the trail or on the road.
Velcro straps that are too long to fit a 27.2 seatpost.
Fabric that wears out where it rubs the saddle, as if saddle bags weren't designed to rub on the saddle 🙄
Other than that its finally hit me that if you want fast, light, hi-tech and long lasting, just don't ride your MTB in the winter. I am now a proud fair-weather MTBer (if such a thing is possible in Scotland).
It was more the stuff they took away...going from half a pint of oil sloshing sbout in the lowers for open bath damping to a sealed damper unit and a teaspoon of oil in the lowers did wonders did'nt it??? 😐
The reason Marzocchi lost reliability was because they [s]outsourced produc....[/s]
...they're bloody rubbish.
i bought some 55's, they didn't even have oil inside, just a smear of grease on the bushes / seals.
1 ride later and the black stanchions were in a terrible mess.
dreadful things.
heavy too - and that's because whoever designed the crown is a clueless moron.
MX pivots do wear out, rebuild kits tend to run to more like £100+ which is about £90 more than most riders will pay for replacement pivot kits.
khani - MemberI'd like to see bike journo's that report the seedier side of the industry, bad cs, serial frame failures, flawed products, and suchlike, rather than just going 'ooh shinee' at new releases, then maybe some manufacturers might actually give a shit
'dons Kevlar suit'
'steps away'
Not quite what you're looking for, but mocks the industry, riders, reviews/reviewers and Brian Lopes!
http://www.site.hbcutthecoursein1990.com/Home.php
i bought some 55's, they didn't even have oil inside, just a smear of grease on the bushes / seals
I'm sure that's not the norm. My 66s had oil in from new.
going from half a pint of oil sloshing sbout in the lowers for open bath damping to a sealed damper unit and a teaspoon of oil in the lowers did wonders did'nt it???
Works fine for lots of people. I'm not sure I'd want to combine lube oil and damper oil, tbh.
I'm not sure I'd want to combine lube oil and damper oil, tbh
Falls for the bait....why? Given that it seems to work ok in motorbike forks....please don't say cavitation or emulsification.
Well apart from dirt and crud ingress.. I'm sure the ideal properties of each are different, aren't they?
Look at Rockshox red rum. About as far from damper oil as you can get. Although to be honest I've not had Rockshox apart so I dunno where that stuff goes, but I'm assuming it's a damper cartridge and the red stuff goes in the legs and sticks to everything.
NB I am not a suspension engineer or an oil expert 🙂
didnt leisure lakes used to sell frames called AK47's their own branded frame from memory