[Closed] Nutritionists: how long into a MTB ride is it worth taking on protein?

Me personally, i am not a superfit guy or do any 12 hour races but in trying to raise money for charity last year i did longer and longer rides culminating in 310 miles from Newcastle to London in 19 1/2 hours.

I found that i would feel better if i started to take on protein after 5-6 hours, i really like the High 5 4:1 drink and would have two bottles on bike, one just hydration tablets and one the 4:1.

I'd also start to introduce "real" food into diet, so not just carb heavy bars/snacks or gels, things such as peanut butter sandwiches which are very calorie rich etc.

I tend to use High5 4:1 for all my longer (3hr+) training rides, and mix it with 2:1 to create 8:1 for events over 6hrs.
The only thing to be wary of with 4:1 is that it reduces your carb intake for the same volume of liquid so you need to get it from elsewhere.

When you get low on carbs your body will begin to use a small amount of protein for fuel - if you don't provide it, it'll happily break down your muscles to get it, which is obviously not desirable.

You don't want to take on too much protein whilst riding though as it can easily lead to bloating and slowing down your digestion of vital carbs.

for me, it's as soon as we pass a shop (1) selling protein based nutrition (often encased in a carb / fat rich casing)

(1) or petrol station (2)
(2) some petrol stations now have Greggs concessions. Amazing.

You don't want to take on too much protein whilst riding though as it can easily lead to bloating and slowing down your digestion of vital carbs.

Serious answer, while that's almost certainly correct, when i did long rides building up to a 12hr solo, I found that after about 4 hours of 'sports nutrition' (gels, drinks, bars) I just needed 'solid' food of some sort otherwise I just felt empty and gut-rotty. I don't know whether the make-up of the food was important as the fact it just gave me some solids, which I know sounds wrong, but was right for me. For me, it was genuinely sausage rolls (cold), which conveniently are quite packable or even readily available from the sorts of establishments above.

I found that after about 4 hours of 'sports nutrition' (gels, drinks, bars) I just needed 'solid' food of some sort

High5 4:1 for all my longer (3hr+) training rides, and mix it with 2:1 to create 8:1

Wot?

Maths fail, surely?

Re protein - sounds like a 4:1 mix could be handy for fasted rides?

Wot?

Maths fail, surely?

Yes, my bad, but not in the way you think!

Its actually 9:1

4:1 = 4 parts 2:1(carb blend) to 1 part whey protein, so when mixed 50/50 with 2:1 powder you end up with 9 parts 2:1 to 1 part whey protein.

Re protein - sounds like a 4:1 mix could be handy for fasted rides?

About 6 hours for me, but yes, i think that is quite normal.

I agree - sort of - if I was out on a training ride of say 5-6 hours i wouldn't need a solid food stop in that time and could survive on drink and energy food until i was done (but I'd be feeling pretty 'hungry' by then)

If i was out for longer, just like you don't wait until you bonk before refuelling, to get some solids in after even 3 hours meant I never really got properly to that uncomfortable stage.

I heard recently that protein can mess with your stomach if taken on during exercise and is possibly best as a post event replacement. That being said, I only ever take on water and whatever i can manage at a food stop.

Waste of time

the research for the 4-1 carbs / protein thing is a weird extrapolation from malnourished elderly folk in hospital.

Only if you are an ultra endurance athlete then these things can make a marginal difference - for normal folk none at all.

Its just a way of selling you overpriced processed food.

Have a ham butty

I heard somewhere recently (i think it was on the velonews podcast) that the studies suggesting improved performance from 4:1 mixes relative to just carbs weren't controlled for calorie content. The 4:1 mix was just the carb drink with extra protein added so it was probably just extra total energy intake which improved endurance performance.

tjagain - Member 
Have a ham butty

Pork & Leek slice @ Peaslake for me 😀

Though if I'm out 6 hrs it's probably a super social and we've done all of 10 miles the whole day 😆

for normal folk none at all

What's 'normal'?

Why is there nothing between 'normal' and 'ultra endurance athlete' ?

About the same time I pass a pie or a fish and chip shop.

Mini Melton pork pies, make sure you gave plenty of drink to go with them as they can be a bit claggy after a few hours in a pocket

I don't think there is any, as you stop rebuilding muscle as soon as start exercising, your body is not going to waste potential calories laying down muscle when that protein could be used as fuel. I was listening to a podcast where the scientist suggested that a very dilute solution of protein might help during ultra endurance events to reduce muscle damage but i don't think its much use for mortals.

I'd stick to carbs or fats if you need them riding and protein after but again unlike carbs it doesn't need to be straight after.

2 small pork pies for me every 2 hours. Works a treat and it slows down absorption of gels etc leading to more stable release of energy. Not so many peaks and troughs.

I can get through a good 7 hours now on some soreen, a few gels and 6 mini pork pies to slow it all down.

OP - better idea to do a google search than ask people on here surely?

Try "protein supplementation in endurance sports" or something.

Training Peaks article worth a read here: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/the-endurance-athlete-s-guide-to-protein/

Beware that the advice on consumption during exercise comes from Hammer Nutrition, e.g. someone trying to sell a product...

I'm sure further internet searching will reveal more than STW nonsense...

Another point worth considering is how hard you are working during the session.. and how your fitness/metabolism is adapted.

Here's the podcast i was listening to its a bit dry but at least it's not from someone trying to sell you protein powder

[url= http://www.scienceofultra.com/podcasts/11 ]podcast[/url]

molgrips
the only group of people that i have seen reseach that shows the 4:1 carbs to protein thing work for is ultra endurance athletes ie polar explorers, multiple marathon runners that sort of thing. For ordinary folk it makes no difference whatsoever ie folk who go out for a few hours on the bikes

the basis for the 4:1 carb / protein ration is a study of malnourished elderly folk in hospital which then was latched onto by snake oil sales men selling you overpriced fake food

I thought pork pies were my special "super secret superfood"... I guess not, looks like they're quite popular with bikers!
Generally though I leave protein till after the ride (along with beer).

End of first day, going into the second. Then every evening as far as the ride goes.

So on a day ride I'd not bother looking for protein content. Porridge has 10% protein anyway or I might have eggs and toast for breakfast so I doubt I'd be short of it over a 4-12hr ride and the main recovery process is an overnight/rest thing.

Having said all that I do like lower-fat savoury stuff that has some protein later into longer day rides so the 6hr thing mentioned might have some truth to it. No idea if it's nutritionally correct or just that over a long day ride I'm at the pace where eating stuff like that is OK on the stomach and it just tastes good.

Pork pies though .. way too much fat content. Gut plugging stuff. Pork pies mixed with gels, guaranteed to have me off the bike within an hour 😀

edit to add,

Only if you are an ultra endurance athlete then these things can make a marginal difference

Cheers.

What happened to the old cycling diet of chicken legs and cheese and jam sandwiches?

the only group of people that i have seen reseach that shows the 4:1 carbs to protein thing work for is ultra endurance athletes ie polar explorers, multiple marathon runners that sort of thing.

What about those who are pushing their bodies to their own lesser limits? In other words keen amateurs. Have you found a study for that? Would be keen to read it if there were.

A key advantage of the drinks is that you don't have to stop to eat them. Quite hard to eat a sandwich when riding. I may not be a champion athlete, but if I am training for my own endurance goals I might need to be getting used to being in the saddle for hours on end not stopping. That is actually a key skill for ultra endurance efforts - not stopping.