[Closed] Not ideal warranty (Intense) replacement - Opinions - this is a free for all!

Tell them to provide you something suitable under warranty - it's not your fault they can't provide a suitable replacement!

(Had this issue with a previous bike - they had run out of alloy frames so gave me a carbon one under warranty instead)

Fail to see how it's your fault that their frame cracked and they no longer make it. I'd be going through the T&Cs of the guarantee.

That's a good point, but I always see warranties as you get what you get.

I always assumed they cover their backsides with 'our discretion.'

Doesn't help that the distributer switched from Extra to Saddleback.

but I always see warranties as you get what you get.

At the moment you're effectively getting nothing though

"Intense will, at its discretion, repair or replace any frame that it determines to be defective during the warranty period."

That kind of get out.

Another brand I will not buy again.

At the moment you're effectively getting nothing though

Tangibly I know. But I have some sort of an offer.

I don't see how they can get away with giving you a smaller frame than the one you had and asking you to pay extra is also taking the piss (if they had the correct frame all would be well). For balance I have had 2 frame replacements one was Specialized who upgraded frame and shock cos they no longer had the old frames (5+ years old). The other was Nukeproof who despite the frame being 5 weeks out of warranty replaced the broken frame with a brand new 2017 frame.

Not sure how to argue it. They don't make anything I really want.

"Intense will, at its discretion, repair or replace any frame that it determines to be defective during the warranty period."

At the moment they haven't really offered to do either, so I'd be pushing them for an equivalent especially as they should realise frame size is important.

"Intense will, at its discretion, repair or replace any frame that it determines to be defective during the warranty period."

I would read that as they would use their discretion to either repair or replace a frame that is defective.
They seemed to accept that the frame has a defect so their options are to repair or replace it.

I would keep pushing for something that suits you - or a refund. I've seen in rare cases full bikes being refunded if a suitable replacement cannot be found.

Remember this is totally not your problem to sort out!

I know, I'm too easy with stuff like this as I know ultimately they can just wriggle and wriggle. It's their terms not mine.

A Primer is their closest - but I would have to buy new forks and that's stupid and I don't need one.

Are you having this discussion with the retailer or Intense directly? How long have you had the frame?

Assuming 'not long' then surely at this point it's up to the retailer to sort you out, even if that means giving you a full refund* and [i]they [/i]get a new Medium frame to sell from [i]their [/i]supplier.

*Or offer you something else as a replacement, not necessarily an Intense.

At the moment you're effectively getting nothing though

I'm speaking to Saddleback (distributor) who are speaking to Intense in the US. 18 months.

5 Year warranty.

Who did you buy the bike from? That is who your contract is with.

Not a massive help, but the only warranty claim I've had was on a Raleigh Airlite road bike, it had an alloy front and a carbon rear. The bb shell cracked where the chainstays were bonded in; took it back to the shop 2 years after I got it, 10 days later I had a whole new Raleigh SP Carbon bike with new 105. Proper result.

A Primer is their closest - but I would have to buy new forks and that's stupid and I don't need one

and the minor point that it's a full-sus ffs 😆

I understood a contract was with the shop for the Consumer Rights act but a warranty is with the manufacturer. The two are different approaches.

(After 6 months things take a turn against you.)

rone - Member

I understood a contract was with the shop for the Consumer Rights act but a warranty is with the manufacturer. The two are different approaches.

(After 6 months things take a turn against you.)

yip, they are two different things. 6 months thing doesn't override the current EU legislation on sale of goods though.

a medium bike is unsuitable and no point paying extra as they are duty bound to " repair or replace any frame " as in the T&C of their warranty as they have already accepted its a warranty issue.

6 months thing doesn't override the current EU legislation on sale of goods though.

Anyway the point is the warranty is nothing more than something the manufacturer offers. There is wriggle room of course but it's not like returning something to the shop say within 3 months for a full cash refund with the law at your side.

Well OP, youre the first person in one of these sort of threads to be sticking up for the manufacturer...

Assuming you said no to both, what else are they offering?

was of the understanding that the 6 months thing IS the current EU legislation? i.e. after 6 months the onus is on you to prove it was defective when supplied

EU is 2 years and you are not the one that has to prove a fault.

No use to the OP, but when i discovered a crack in my old 26" Giant Trance frame, the fact that they no longer make any 26" bikes and had no stock frames resulted in me getting the equivalent current model complete bike. Pretty good service I reckon.

"Intense will, at its discretion, repair or replace any frame that it determines to be defective during the warranty period."

[b]"any frame that it determines to be defective during the warranty period" [/b]

they have accepted that the frame is defective, and that it is within the warranty period. So that's an easy bit.

[b]"Intense will, At its discretion" [/b]

this refers to it being their choice if they repair or replace (there isn't a third option)

So they can decide wether to repair it. Or replace it with something suitable (both options at at no cost to you)

I can't really see why you think there is any wiggle room for them to get out of replacing it with something suitable, that you don't have to pay for. 😕

There really isn't.

As many above have said this really is their problem to fix.

In your shoes, I'd write to the most senior person at Intense and the distributor. (I mean the CEO, MD or some such; don't bother with a customer services rep)

Simply set out the issue you have (no bike) and what you want them to do (provide you the means to have a new bike, of an equivalent type and quality, for no additional cost).

Place the problem firmly in their court

If you bought the bike on a credit card, S75 protection would likely apply... in which case you could contact your card if they dont play ball.

what neal and flashinthepan say

they have accepted liability under warranty now they have to do what their warranty says and not fob you off- might feel sorry they do not do the frame but that is really not your problem its theirs to fix.

rone - Member

Another brand I will not buy again.

Unfortunately part of it here is that Intense are shit. A shop owner I know took a brand new frame out of the box, found it was bent, returned it unridden and was told they'd inspected it and it was crash damage.

But it does sound here like they've already accepted responsibility at least.

Well OP, youre the first person in one of these sort of threads to be sticking up for the manufacturer..

Well because I'm in business and I know how tricky it can all be.

Also if they don't make what I want I don't see how they can magic anything out of thin air.

I'm asking for a Primer frame for no extra cost.

I will sell that.

Well because I'm in business and I know how tricky it can all be.

It can be, but taking liberties with the terms of a contract is not the way to deal with "tricky"

Also if they don't make what I want I don't see how they can magic anything out of thin air.

If they can't supply you something equivalent, or better than, what you already had, then they should refund you, so you can buy elsewhere.

This really isn't a complicated situation.

I bought a V1 Hard Eddie frame a few years ago. There wasn't much information on the website about them regarding comparability egg son I called them.

I spoke with Jeff Steber who advised the 970 XTR would fit and that the production frames would come with cahin suck ortection plates fitted.

Received the frame and neither of those points were right. Really struggled to fit the 2x XTR chainset, had to completely bodge it to run with a single ring never mind a double.

Plus there was no chain suck plate. Never really settled with it as and chain suck woukd have ripped the chainstay apart. Sold it on here, was really sad when it went as it was a stunning frame and rode really well.

Is that the same Primer that's 28% off at Merlin? How much extra were they wanting?

I'm saying I'm not prepared to pay any extra now. And yes I've seen the frame on Merlin but it's probably worth more than a Hard Eddie frame.

If they can't supply you something equivalent, or better than, what you already had, then they should refund you, so you can buy elsewhere.

This really isn't a complicated situation

Yeah in an ideal world.

But who is going to give my money back?

The shop, extra, saddleback or intense?

I've managed to get my money back on problems within a few weeks but seriously they would just keep dodging and then you'd have to fight a case legally.

I've tackled all sorts of consumer issues but I do not understand how I would get my money back so easy.

Especially after 18 months.

The contract is with the shop but I'm dealing with the warranty and there is no mention of refund in the warranty contract.

Lots of companies these days in the bike industry have tightened up their warranty policies - first hand a friend of mine with a Turner frame could not get a replacement frame from them because for lots of reasons Turner apparently wouldn't honour it. (After initially saying they would). The distributor was left in the lurch and stumped up an alternative. But again how would you force Turner to give them a frame if they didn't supply the distributor with any or wouldn't?

I'm not trying to be awkward, I'm just being realistic and getting refunds on bikes this far down the line is very tricky and would require legally a lot of effort or a very generous bike shop. And we know the bike shop places emphasis on the manufacturers warranty rather than refunds.

Mate had a 4 year old Rock Mtn Slayer that snapped, it was 26". Lots of back and forward as the new slayer was not released they offered 2 complete bikes (lower specs) in 650/29. Neither were very good, resale was low and my mate opted to wait for the new Slayer which he got.

Get it raised up to Intense head office as they will have final say regardless of the distributor. They can give you a refund as they took the money and they built the defective product.

They way you get something back is to keep on them, ask to be copied in the communications and make sure the shop know what you want as a resolution from the situation.

Get it raised up to Intense head office as they will have final say regardless of the distributor. They can give you a refund as they took the money and they built the defective product.

They way you get something back is to keep on them, ask to be copied in the communications and make sure the shop know what you want as a resolution from the situation.

So you're saying go after Intense In the USA?

(Also I've modified it a it with different forks, bars and crank-set etc)

They will be the ones making the final decisons if they need to. They will be providing the frame to the UK distributor. Get the UK people to get hold of the US people (Keep it in the chain)
Basic Process.
Intense provide Warranty to Distributor
Distributor Provides Warranty to Shop
Shop provides Warranty to Customer

End of the day Intense carries the can, so long as the mods are within spec (for length etc) then go for it. Sinple answer is why should you be out of pocket - no way will you get close to RRP for a warranty frame (it's got no warranty once you sell it and only has the remainder of yours if you keep it)

Saddleback calls shop "look we've got a guy who has received a defective frame and we can't sort him out with a suitable replacement. I know we don't normally do this but please can you offer him a cash refund and we'll credit your account? Cheers"

This "can" happen!!

Okay I will give that one a go. Saddleback are being merely a conduit at the moment.

What Jimmyoto and mikewsmith say.

Is the request for a refund on the frame or whole bike?

Thanks all.

Is the request for a refund on the frame or whole bike?

The whole bike. That's what you bought from them. Not just the frame.

first hand a friend of mine with a Turner frame could not get a replacement frame from them because for lots of reasons Turner apparently wouldn't honour it.

First hand stories are always the best
With all the intricate detail and specifics of the situation 😆 😉

The whole bike. That's what you bought from them. Not just the frame.

First hand stories are always the best
With all the intricate detail and specifics of the situation

What do you want to know?

What's wrong with the rest of the components?

From my point of view, nothing and I've upgraded a heap of them.

First hand stories are always the best
With all the intricate detail and specifics of the situation

Well my recent Turner venture was not so great. Bought a brand new Czar, came with lacquer flaking. Got a good price but could I live with it I suppose.

However I discovered a crak on the down tube - and okay I got my money back after a bit of minor debate BUT crucially no more frames to replace it with.

My mate's was much more troubling.

No use to the OP, but when i discovered a crack in my old 26" Giant Trance frame, the fact that they no longer make any 26" bikes and had no stock frames resulted in me getting the equivalent current model complete bike. Pretty good service I reckon.

What's wrong with the rest of the components?

The purchase was a bike.

The bike was faulty and is now broken. It can't be fixed or replaced as the broken part isn't available.

The refund should be for what was purchased. A bike.

However I discovered a crak on the down tube - and okay I got my money back after a bit of minor debate BUT crucially no more frames to replace it with.

So in a different occasion, you got a full refund because no suitable replacement was available.

Why do you not expect the same this time? 😕

So in a different occasion, you got a full refund because no suitable replacement was available.

Why do you not expect the same this time?

Because I discovered the crack within 3 days. Not 18 months.

Its a tricky one - you mentioned that you have upgraded the parts, do you have the originals still? If so I'd pop them back on and pursue a full refund.

It's probably more likely that you've binned them. In this case I think you would be within your rights to request a partial refund equal to the retail value of a replacement frame.

Essentially you should be in the position to purchase a brand new frame from a different manufacturer that suits you. Realistically there will be additional costs as not all your bits will fit but you may have to suck these up.

Good luck 🙂

I still think you should be taking this up with the retailer not Intense.

You bought the item from them, it's their job to sort, if that means they have to liaise with the manufacturer then that's their burden. If the manufacturer/distributor can't/won't repair or replace with equivalent (or acceptable) replacement then it's still up to the retailer to sort you out, and for them to then take it up with their supplier (distributor or manufacturer).

[url= http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act#who-should-you-claim-against ]http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act#who-should-you-claim-against[/url]

amedias is absolutely correct.

Dealing with warranty claims like this is one of the things we pay retailers for. However I'm wondering if the OK has a reason for not doing so - especially in light of his comment about being "in the business".

I agree that the first port of call is always the retailer where it was purchased from - though if the distributor has engaged with the consumer directly (as it appears in this case) and he hasn't been explicitly instructed to deal only via an authorised dealer I think it's fine to discuss this with the distributor. Ultimately the "fix" will come from the Distributor so deal with them directly if possible, the shop plays their part by facilitating the "fix"

Give [url= https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/ ]Citizens Advice[/url] a call. Under not so similar circumstances (second hand car with faulty air con) they were extremely helpful.

The basic advice was that you can forget about the warranty. That's not where your legal rights lay. Your legal rights are under the Consumer Rights Act 2015:

Consider using your legal rights instead

It may be easier to get your money back, a repair or replacement without using your warranty or guarantee.

Find out if it’s easier to use your legal rights on faulty goods instead. It’s usually easier within the first 6 months. You have legal rights for up to 6 years (5 years in Scotland) if there’s a fault.

They even have a themplate letter for you to fill out.

Even if the distributor has engaged with the customer directly, that only becomes relevant if they offer something the OP is happy with. If they can't then he should still be asking the retailer to sort him out.

Really though, the distributor should be dealing with the retailer , and the retailer with the customer, and only customer<->distributor if all parties agree and it facilitates a quicker resolution.

This [i]could [/i]have been sorted by the retailer fairly early on:

customer: My X has broken
[i]retailer: Oh no! Let me have a chat with our supplier and see if we can provide a replacement or get it repaired.[/i]
customer: Excellent, thanks
[i]retailer: I'm afraid we can't provide a replacement, they don;t make them any more and the only one they have left is the wrong size, I can offer you a refund or this alternative bike/frame Y[/i]
customer: I'll take Y/refund thanks

Retailer then has [s]argument[/s] discussion with distributor about either getting a credit or that wrong size replacement for them to sell instead, but the customer should have been sorted out by now.

I know things aren't always as smooth or quick as that in real life but that is what [i]should [/i]happen.

I know of at least one case very very similar to yours where a shop spent a few days ringing round other shops to try and find a frame of the right size still in stock somewhere, and actually ended up buying one in from France from another shop to replace a customers frame. They came to an arrangemnt with the distributor in terms of appropriate credit but the important things is the customer got sorted out with a replacement even when the distributor had nothing appropriate to replace it with.

That's part and parcel of retail, you take on the responsibilities and administrations of supply and dealing with faults and issues with the products you sell, that is literally the service you're supplying as a retailer, otherwise people could just buy direct from the manufacturer. If you have issues with certain goods or suppliers you re-evaluate if you want to sell those particular goods in the future as the burden is on you.

Likewise customers choose whether or not to buy goods from a particular retailer based on their service as well as availability of goods, but in most cases the same goods can also be purchased elsewhere. If the customer has issues with the goods then they may decide not to ever buy that brand again, but its the service that will dictate whether or not they buy form that retailer again.

Basically, get the retailer to sort you out, that is their job.

Amedias is spot on - that's how it should work.
Sometimes the to and fro can be a bit of a bind though so going straight to the source "can" be more efficient!

TBH I don't think its got to a point to involve citizens advice or Consumer rights. The distributor is not disputing that its a warranty case - it's just they need to come up with a solution that's acceptable to all

Because I discovered the crack within 3 days. Not 18 months.

Does your 5 year warranty get less effective as it moves through the term ?

Amedias is spot on - that's how it should work.
Sometimes the to and fro can be a bit of a bind though so going straight to the source "can" be more efficient!

Absolutely, but that's the mark of a good retailer vs a poor one. It should never get to the point where it's more efficient really as that just shows the retailer is letting you down service wise 😉

Don't forget the retailer can also [i]exceed [/i]the minimum requirement if they want. They could offer a refund or alternative [i]before [/i]speaking to the distributor, many won't of course especially, in the bike trade, but it's common in other areas.

TBH I don't think its got to a point to involve citizens advice or Consumer rights. The distributor is not disputing that its a warranty case - it's just they need to come up with a solution that's acceptable to all

I think this is the crux of it though. It is a warranty case, but if they genuinely can't supply a replacement then the OP needs to tell the retailer what he wants, and they need to sort him out.
Then let them (retailer) figure out how to come to an agreement with the distributor.

Dealing with warranty claims like this is one of the things we pay retailers for. However I'm wondering if the OK has a reason for not doing so - especially in light of his comment about being "in the business".

I'm not in [b]the[/b] business. I'm in business.

Dealing with warranty claims like this is one of the things we pay retailers for. However I'm wondering if the OK has a reason for not doing so - especially in light of his comment about being "in the business"

I dealt with them directly because I could get the photo to them quicker than sending via the retailer. The retailer is in the loop.

Does your 5 year warranty get less effective as it moves through the term ?

It's odd how we keep going over this.

You are much more likely with the law behind you to get a refund if it's early days. This is detailed on many consumer websites. It's the difference between entitled to or not.

If you have to pursue a warranty claim then it's a whole different chase.

only customer<->distributor if all parties agree and it facilitates a quicker resolution.

As per.

only customer<->distributor if all parties agree and it facilitates a quicker resolution.

As per.

But it's not really happening for you in this case is it...

Its a tricky one - you mentioned that you have upgraded the parts, do you have the originals still? If so I'd pop them back on and pursue a full refund.

It's probably more likely that you've binned them. In this case I think you would be within your rights to request a partial refund equal to the retail value of a replacement frame.

And this exactly is where I am currently. I can request that but it's likely to be challenged. I'm just currently seeing what is on offer. But it's slow and painful.

Basically, get the retailer to sort you out, that is their job.

I will but originally the distributor was told a new large frame will be coming at the end of the month. So that would have sorted it.

Only a few days ago did they drop the news on me that they didn't make/hold stock of the large frame.

But it's not really happening for you in this case is it...

That's because Intense have been incredibly slow at responding. It would be even slower with the retailer in the chain.

(they're in the loop - I jumped the gun by emailing Intense originally because Intense have no warranty registration for the UK. So I emailed Intense and they put the distributor in touch with me.)

The truth that has come out of this thread (and certainly with my experience) is the retailer likes to shift the warranty to something they have no control of. Almost like someone else to blame and you're all very correct that the retailer(s) should take this on board.

They don't talk like it's their problem more a 3rd party that may or may not help you.

Yeah, and sadly a lot of retailers are like that, but all the more reason to remind them of their actual responsibilities. 😉

Anyway, I hope you get sorted OP, it sounds very frustrating.

You are much more likely with the law behind you to get a refund if it's early days. This is detailed on many consumer websites. It's the difference between entitled to or not.

Look buddy, do what you want, but don't think that the retailer and distributor haven't built dealing with warranty claims into their costs.

Anyway, I hope you get sorted OP, it sounds very frustrating.

I originally banked on getting nothing as I thought they didn't make the frame any more. I knew this when I purchased it. Hey ho!

Look buddy, do what you want, but don't think that the retailer and distributor haven't built dealing with warranty claims into their costs.

Almost certainly but they like hanging on to their frames = profit don't they!

Thanks for everyone's input.

Almost sounds like the OP doesn't want a resolution in his favour.

It's also starting to sound like a good proportion of the bike industry is heading up its own arse with regards to warranty support.

Except Salsa. Won't go into details but they really really cared that I was happy.

Leftfield thought - could you just get the frame repaired in the UK? I've had one frame repaired to a high standard, including colour-matched paintwork and logos.

Ideally you could get Intense to cover the cost, but even if you didn't - would you be willing to pay a couple of hundred quid to get back the bike you want to be riding, rather than some other Intense fullsus that you have to resell?

FTR I'm not saying that this is a good reflection of Intense customer service, just that it's a (non-ideal!) option 🙂

You are much more likely with the law behind you to get a refund if it's early days. This is detailed on many consumer websites. It's the difference between entitled to or not.

You are entitled.

They have accepted the frame is a warranty job.

That's done. It's not in doubt. They have accepted it.

They now [b]have to choose...[/b]

1. Repair.
2. Replace.
3. Refund.

As they have said, they can't do option 1 or option 2
They have to do option 3

You just don't seem too bothered about them ignoring the terms of their warranty.
Which is fair enough, your choice.

But that's what you are entitled to.

Almost sounds like the OP doesn't want a resolution in his favour.

Not at all. I'm just being realistic.

They now have to choose...

1. Repair.
2. Replace.
3. Refund.

As they have said, they can't do option 1 or option 2
They have to do option 3

You just don't seem too bothered about them ignoring the terms of their warranty.
Which is fair enough, your choice.

But that's what you are entitled to.

I don't see refund listed in their warranty terms?

They can do option 2 sort of by offering me an alternative frame. And then I could say no don't want it but can I have a refund, but they could say no too.

I understand a refund when the law is your on your side but warranties are about what they offer you not what you can rightfully get.

Surely there is a complete mix up here between what the laws says in terms of consumer rights and what a warranty gives you additionally? That's how I've always read it. I've successfully been to small claims twice and done okay so I know the process.

I genuinely am confused how I can legitimately insist on a refund. I understand that I can ask for one which I will do. But this is not the same as dealing with statuary law is it?

Or are we just talking about goodwill?