[Closed] not getting on with drop bars?

tourer you say - butterfly bars >?

You don't need drop bars to tour but the bike you bought will be designed with those in mind. The Euros seem to manage just fine with flats, risers or butterfly bars. I'll be doing a fair amount of road work on my El Mariachi and I'll likely fit some TT bars for longer trips.

Otherwise, have a look at Woodchippers and a very high-rise stem, or just MTFU until your body adjusts.

They take a while, hang in there.

Got a pic of how you've got them set up?

just MTFU until your body adjusts.

sell me your cane creek ergo bar ends cheap.....or swap for my wide drops.

go for a more compact drop, or something with flared drops? - Midge bars etc.

oh, and define 'not getting on'

(edit: what bandito said)

midge bars are drops-but-not-drops and I bet others exist that are the same

I quite like em

and/or a higher rise stem might be worth a go

I struggled with drop bars, I fitted Woodchippers but was not that impressed. The bar that has done it for me though is the Ragley Luxy bar. It has a great angle and shallow drop.

they are too narrow, brakes are in the wrong spot, remember my shoulder are 3ft wide.....bars are 46cm.

They give me neck ache from having to look up. On my road bike (ancient 27" fixed) I turned the bars upside down, back to front and chopped the ends off. Bullhorn style. I keep the flat section clear so I can ride with my hands anywhere along them and I often find myself cruising along with hands touching the stem and index fingers linked together. Which is probably stupidly dangerous.

EDIT My shoulders are under 20" wide (I can get through a 500mm gap straight on) and my bars are 390mm (15 1/4"). I told you it was old.

I'm a pretty chunky 6 footer who windsurfs. I used to regard myself as having wide shoulders till just now!

It's uncomfortable if I spend too long in the full drop position, but riding whilst leaning on the top of the curve is surprisingly comfy... takes time to adjust from MTB though.

OP, your shoulder are superhero proportioned?

Midge bars on my old Peregrine:

[url= http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4007/4618708535_53ee78cf8c_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4007/4618708535_53ee78cf8c_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/ir_bandito/4618708535/ ]DSC_0880[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/ir_bandito/ ]ir_bandito[/url], on Flickr

Lovely and wide, and the angle meant riding on the hoods was as comfortable as a worn in sofa in your favourite pub 🙂

Bullhorns on the fixed gear. Seem ok but take some getting used to.
I imagine drops would be very similar though but with the option to.....drop.
[img] [/img]

Drop bars are a stupid idea - designed to make a 1930s racing bike faster, they've got no place on modern bikes.

IMO, of course 😉

Butterfly bars are a bit German-tourist-with-a-moustache, but very comfy, or semi-drops are excellent. You want lots of varying hand positions, not aerodynamics.

[quote=bencooper ]Drop bars are a stupid idea - designed to make a 1930s racing bike faster, they've got no place on modern bikes.
We are a bit fixated on drop bars in this country. A casual browse of the Cube Bikes Trekking range will bring up lots of alternatives, or look at Koga Miyata/Tout Terrain.

Here's Tons new bike
[img] [/img]

Maybe it's just that I'm one of the more "mature" riders on STW but that looks far too aggressive a riding position to use for a 3-day tour.

I'd be very surprised if 46cm bars are too narrow for anyone. As a rule of thumb handlebar width should match the width of your clavicles. Basically, feel for the bony knob on each shoulder - and that's the width.

As for comfort - road bars should be very comfortable as are a variety of hand positions - tops, hoods, drops. If you are not comfortable then you might want to consider looking at how well the bike fits you? Are the bars too low? Is the reach too long?

When you say the brakes are in the wrong spot - maybe they are, or maybe this is an indicator that your position on the bike is wrong?

I'd be interested to know if he ever gets down to the drops. Almost everyone I've ever built a touring bike for or fixed with drops has never used the drop, just rides on the hoods all the time.

It's basically a way of carrying more metal than you need, and using brake levers inefficiently.

What are the Midge bars like for braking & gear changing, ir_bandito? I changed largely because I found I needed to go to the drops to get decent brake purchase, which was exactly when I also wanted (commuting) to be upright. I did like being on the hoods though - seemed a perfect position for fill climbing.

I went to flat bars & Ergon grips which I like, although the bar ends are not as good as Cane Creek ergos to "get hold of" when giving it some climbing welly.

you are also aware that most of your time on drop bars would be spent on the hoods right ? the drops are for agressive riding/sprinting or hiding out the wind during your turn on the front 😀

the drops are for agressive riding/sprinting or hiding out the wind during your turn on the front

Exactly - not for touring 😉

Really, though, the whole shape of the bike is wrong - it should be recumbent...

It's basically a way of carrying more metal than you need, and using brake levers inefficiently.

I mostly use my drops for extra power whilst burning skallies on BMXs... I imagine Indurain did the same. 😉

That is one hell of a saddle/bars height difference.

However, I'd rotate them up a nats (so the tops are flat) and move the levers down a gnats (so the tops pf the hoods are level with/flat out from the drops).

And probably stick a higher rise stem on.

Like ben says though, if you're never going to use the drop bit of the drops, use flats and bar ends.

If you go back in time a bit to when bikes were the majority mode of transport, most sports type bikes had much bigger frames than we use these days. There's nothing wrong with dropbars if they're set up properly.

This means higher and longer headtubes. Look at old touring pics and on most of the bikes the top of the drop bar is in much the same height as the saddle. That lets you cruise all day in a comfortable position but lets you get down to it if you want a bit of speed or hit a headwind.

Fashion these days dictates that bars and stem should be slammed - that's only good for genuine racers or those trendy chaps who want to look like a monkey pleasuring a coconut.

Ton, I reckon your frame is much too small for touring with deep drops. Try a set of North Road bars - you can flip them up if the down position is too uncomfortable.

What are the Midge bars like for braking & gear changing,

the drops are for... ..hiding out the wind during [s]your turn on the front[/s] long days into a headwind on a multi-day tour

Check out the bars that Mark Beaumont uses for his epics.

Then check out his saddle angle and shake your head in disbelief.

[img] [/img]

"That is one hell of a saddle/bars height difference."

This - very much so given your stature, you need to get those bars up its set up like a racing bike there. infact ive seen racing bikes with less saddle to bar drop

nah Ir - much prefer aero bars for hiding out the wind on multi day tours

scotroutes - that pic looks far too bum up bars down to me for touring - frame too small ? I'd say there is a good 3 inches too much post out for a tourer setup

After a few thousand miles you will get used to drops.

Swapped to Midge Bars on my CX/tourer/commuter and really like them.Not done any touring yet ,but they just feel right.

when i am on the bike, on the tops, i am comfy, as in not too stretched or cramped.
the problem is that the BARS ARE TOO NARROW AND THE BRAKES ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE.

I don't get on with drops, so my Boardman flat barred 'hybrid' is ideal for me. Done the C2C on it in a day with no problems - plus it means i can fit discs and CX tyres 🙂

are you riding on the tops ? thats why they are too narrow

just get some wider flat bars if thats where you want to ride.

[i]THE BRAKES ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE[/i]

As in you can't reach the levers when you're in the drops? Try tweaking it like I suggested.

If the bars feel too narrow then the only option is wider bars (obviously), but then if you're used to MTB bars a road bar will feel narrow anyway.

I also have a set of [url= http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/HBCISPINTR-26-SIL/cinelli_spinaci_trekking_bar_extensions___222_mm_clamp___silver ]these[/url] that I use on other bikes.
I cut them in the middle and set them up like mini tri-bars ,just to give some more choice for hand positions.

Midge bars are not the answer to your problem here Ton. I used a set on a cross bike I borrowed and while the width was (sort of) welcome the drop and brake position is awful if you have hands larger than a size medium. I found my hands scrunched up and aching (I use the drops a lot on normal bars) as the curve is very small and doesn't leave space for a big hand. Your hands are then angled horribly on the hoods and reaching the brake levers is a pain. The levers are also about four yards from the bar in the drop position. And the top is very narrow, so when you want a comfy, upright, touring position you've only got 38cm to play with.

I'd go for a higher rise stem on that bike (for you, what with being a giant, everyone else can MTFU). Since you need a new stem, these come in 48cm and may help-

http://www.hubjub.co.uk/store/index.php/handle-bars/nitto-m177-detail

Drops are a godsend when descending. Gets centre of gravity lower. Shifts your weight forward. And gives you better leverage on the brakes.

How about a Randonneur bar?

Nitto are hard to find, but Freshtripe have the Velo Orange version which comes in a nice and wide 48cm option:

[url= http://www.freshtripe.co.uk/Freshtripe/Handlebars,%20Headsets%20&%20Stems_files/VO%20GC%20Rando%20Bar-3.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.freshtripe.co.uk/Freshtripe/Handlebars,%20Headsets%20&%20Stems_files/VO%20GC%20Rando%20Bar-3.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

Higher stem might help.
Try small adjustments to angle of bar and brake lever position?

Took me well over a year to get my touring bike (with drops) set up perfectly, as it was completely new to me.
I was methodically making small changes and one day it just felt right.
Patience paid off, it's now dead comfy for bimbling around for a week or so... 🙂

It was a revelation to take 5mm out of the steerer stack, suddenly the bars fitted.

One trick a roadie told me was to adjust the bike so you can actually ride for an extended time with your hands on the drops. This will probably mean that your stem isn't slammed but at least the hoods and tops will give a nice relaxed position.

ac282 - Member

This will probably mean that your stem isn't slammed.

Can I refer you to this ?

Rule #45
// Slam your stem.

A maximum stack height of 2cm is allowed below the stem and a single 5mm spacer must always – always – be stacked above. A “slammed down” stack height is preferable; meaning that the stem is positioned directly on the top race of the headset.

Can I refer you to this ?
Rule #45
// Slam your stem.

No, you can't refer anyone to that. It's a thread about touring bikes, not US wannabes.

only if you want to be a poseur.....

real riders(pro or amateur) make their bikes fit first , looks come second. Max output for minimal input

I am the same so I go with riser bars with bar ends on my Kaffenback.

I don't do more than about 70 miles in a day but always feel comfortable with this set up.

My average speed is not amazing but I always enjoy being out.

[img] [/img]

The Nitto bars I-R posted are very good, reccomend them for touring, also they dont have a lot of reach so the brakes will not be as far out the front.

You really need to raise that bar tho, tops level with the saddle is a good place to start for touring, it might feel to high initially but it means the drops are accessible all the time giving you more hand placement options. It would also pull the bars towards you, reducing the uncomfortable feeling MTBers get when running narrow road bars.

jp-t853

that looks a solution mate.

Salsa Cowbells are another option - good for using from the hoods and short drop to slightly flared drops if needed.

Someone's selling a touring bars/stem/shifters setup on the classifieds if that's any help 😉

Someone's selling a touring bars/stem/shifters setup on the classifieds if that's any help

ha ha, i saw what you did there......... 😆

I've also been wondering about drops. My Croix der Fer is my first real bike with drops and I am always on the hoods - with the disc brakes I never lack in braking power. Every time I try the drops it feels too low and squashed.

Am I missing something by not using the drops?

Would something like the cowbells mean I get more use/advantage of the drops?

i think of all the replies on this post, Bencooper has hit the nail on the head.
most of the blokes on this forum will either never need or be able (paunch) to ride on the drops.
so why have them fitted to a bike at all. flats. risers, butterflys, marys, carnegies, jones loops, h bars, j bars are far more suitable for us blokes.

Would something like the cowbells mean I get more use/advantage of the drops?

The Salsa Cowbells only have a smidge of a flare on the drops (12 degrees I think?). But they feel far more comfortable for me than vertical drops. Generally I only use them when descending on the CX bike.

[quote=ton ]i think of all the replies on this post, Bencooper has hit the nail on the head.
most of the blokes on this forum will either never need or be able (paunch) to ride on the drops.
so why have them fitted to a bike at all. flats. risers, butterflys, marys, carnegies, jones loops, h bars, j bars are far more suitable for us blokes.
It's an indication of the power of marketing, tradition and a desire to "conform". The Rose Bikes catalogue dropped through the letterbox this morning and I couldn't help but think of this thread whilst reading it. It paints a picture of a country where folk use bikes for all sort of practical reasons and fit all sorts of practical accessories. Over here the mags and forums have mostly missed this out in favour of DH gnar and lycra-bound road racers.

I built my Croix de Fer up with Cowbells and would recommend them. The angle of the hoods feels natural (try standing up with your arms hanging lose by your side - then look at how your hands are pointing). True that the drops aren't used much but they are still useful and offer a third position to share the load between different muscles. Bar hight on the OP looks too low to me.

It doesn't seem right to me that some setups - eg butterfly bars - put your hands in front of the brake levers. I'd have thought that was asking for trouble.

I like drops, I think it helps me when I want to get down to avoid a headwind or to really press on for a mile or five. I did use a drop bar bike through most of my teens and twenties and came late to MTBs. Never had a drop from saddle to bar like in that pic though. On my current setup top of bars more or less level with saddle, bottom of drops three or four inches below. STI brake levers quite far up on the bends, plenty of power for braking while on the hoods, which are a slight stretch away from natural arm drop, which is more at the top bend, my fave spot. I use crosstop levers too, so have brakes in reach while sat up on the tops.

But, I've given up on SPDs, probably for good this time, and if drops aren't for you, I wouldn't worry about it. Get comfy and get on with it. Just fitted new saddle so here's a gratuitous pic.

[IMG] [/IMG]

Maybe a flat bar wide enough for you with bar extenders? A bit crazy tourer looking though:[url= http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/HBCISPINTR/cinelli_spinaci_trekking_bar_extensions ]Trekking extenders[/url][img] [/img]

Since building my LHT I've tried a few different bar combinations started with
Trekking Butterfly bars - far too upright and a nightmare for cable routing and shifter positions.
Nitto Randos - in the widest they make 45cm, still too narrow on the hoods and too much reach made it not a nice position. Drops were pretty comfy though.
Midge - this:

while the width was (sort of) welcome the drop and brake position is awful if you have hands larger than a size medium. I found my hands scrunched up and aching (I use the drops a lot on normal bars) as the curve is very small and doesn't leave space for a big hand. Your hands are then angled horribly on the hoods and reaching the brake levers is a pain. The levers are also about four yards from the bar in the drop position. And the top is very narrow, so when you want a comfy, upright, touring position you've only got 38cm to play with.

I found I couldn't really use them on the hoods and the ends of the drops could do with being a be a few inches longer.

Thought about:
Nitto noodles - they come wide. but I liked the flare of the rando bars.
Velo randos - looked to have too much reach to make braking on the hoods comfortable.
Salsa Woodchipper flare looked too extreme, more similar to the midge.

I've recently got some Salsa cowbells...but not fitted them yet so can't comment. 46cm wide measured center to centre rather than at the ends. Shorter reach and less flare than the others, and longer in the drops.

2 mates ride lht's also. One with flat bars, ergo grips and bar ends. He finds it comfortable but a little sore after a long day.
The other has butterfly bars and finds them very comfortable too.

If you have poor core stability (and most cyclist do) then a pro-roadie drop position will be uncomfortable, as you'll be moving a lot of weight to your hands. If you're supporting your torso with your hands, it's going to hurt like crazy.

Look at modern road bikes for, uh, 'enthusiasts' - the head tube is pretty long. This makes it easier to use drop bars and get the benefit without being a yoga deity.

I went out on my Tricross for a ride for the first time in months on Sunday and suffered like crazy. Last November (the last time I rode it - excuses: house move, second nipper, work) I din't have a problem on a 120 mile overnight ride using the drops. A 20 mile ride nearly killed me this weekend.

I'd look to try a more upright position, shallower drop bars (FSA makes some lovely bars in up to 44cm - try a pair, they're better than every other FSA component I've ever used and thrown away put together) and proper advice from a roadie shop on bar and brake position before ditching drops and going for flat bars.

Why all this? Well, despite what's been said above, drops are actually pretty damn amazing in a headwind. Aerodynamics matter a lot more when you're riding on the road, and being able to hide from the wind a little makes an enormous difference. And yes, I know it matters most at 25mph and above, but even if you're plodding at 12mph into a 15mph headwind, that's still 27mph of apparent windspeed you have to contend with.

Hope this helps. Rather than dropping loads on a new bar and STI set up, tinker a little with what you have, and find a good road shop to go to. Pay for the bike fit if needs be. It's worth it.

[edit] Of course, this also applies to rando bars and similar - basically, if you can make your frontal profile nice and teeny, you're winning.[/edit]

Ton - go and see Graham at your local EBCOOP....he may even have sold yout the bike? He is a big guy with some good advice and he'll help you set up your bike i'm sure 😀

I can really recomend the Ragly Luxy bars. Have them on my Gryphon. Good on the hoods, in the hooks for the downs and on the drops for the steep ups. Going to put a set on the cx bike as the drops too narrow.

go for a more compact drop, or something with flared drops? - Midge bars etc.

+1. Well maybe not midge bars but certainly less drop. I found FSA do a 120mm drop 460mm wide bar to replace the monsters that came fitted on my bike. And I do use them, being on the drops makes an appreciable difference when riding into a head wind...

Just a thought. Have you checked with tandem specialists?

They used to use wider drops - don't know if they still do.

I've never been that comfy on drops, I've ended up fitting mine really high with what everyone else in the world says is too short a stem, and suddenly it all makes sense, all the positions work. In short- conventional wisdom is good but fannying around is better.

Bullhorns are ace though, I miss mine.

Try Cowbells Tony..

Ok, they [i]are[/i] drops, but they are really, rally comfy while riding in the flats or the hoods.

And the 46cm ones?

Mahoosive.

Love 'em

[IMG] [/IMG]

[IMG] [/IMG]

Don't bolt on loads of crap. Experiment with all the variables first. There are far more variables in drops than flats or risers, so it pays to tweak. New bars with longer hoods or smaller curves or something.

I was going to say 'there are drops, and there are drops' but really there are drops and drops and drops and then some more drops. And each one has a myriad combinations. You have loads of leeway where to put the brakes. I found it impossible to use the brakes on the drops on my roadie, but I rotated the bars forward a lot so the flat bit is pointing down, then I moved the bars back around so that on the hoods my hands sit in a sort of saddle.

Post a pic of yourself on the bike.

jp-t853 - Member

I am the same so I go with riser bars with bar ends on my Kaffenback.

I don't do more than about 70 miles in a day but always feel comfortable with this set up.

My average speed is not amazing but I always enjoy being out.

Same here - Old Rockhopper set up as a tourer - nice wide risers and soft bar ends.
Works a treat.

Deffo trying butterfly bars later this year - always wanted to give em a go.

Randonneur bars are ace as well - used nothing else for touring years ago but haven't seen any for yonks - might order a set of the ones up there for the road bike.

Gotta put in my two penceth.

@ Spanner

Butterfly bars - NOOOOOOO! Don't do it! I rode a 3,500mile tour on them and have vowed never to use them again. A flat bar with LONG bar ends works much better, atleast for me.

I set them up nearly flat so I could stretch into them.

The curves between the flat section where your brake levers are and the forward facing bar endy sections have a really large radius curve which is really uncomfortable and stop you hooking your thumbs off the edge. Takes quite a bit of usable area off the bars, both fore and aft aswell as side to side.

I also found the forward aero section was always just TOO far away to be useful. (and I was a fairly flexible 21 year old when I was using them)

I then tried moustache bars set slightly closer to me than the butterflies. They were super-comfy but the brake levers were always in the wrong place. The levers never followed the angle of my wrist during braking and you couldn't set them up to without losing the hoods position.

Ton- you rode past me when I was in my van on Thursday on this bike. You definitely looked a bit over the front for a tourer. Get a taller stem and see how you feel.

Oh, and put a helmet on 😉