[Closed] No Wiggo for the TdF ?

I'd like to see Wiggo ride the TDF but understand the teams perspective, it's about winning at all cost's.

Would wiggo really ride for Froome ?
I doubt it but he would be a good engine for the team if he would

I would have thought it prudent to send the 2 of them, especially with the opening week dramas that seem to occur before the field gets spread out.

It seems every GT has a few big names suffer crash injuries in the first week and bringing a couple of contenders would proof the team against that to an extent.

wiggo: exciting character, boring rider
froome: exciting rider, boring character

Maybe they could do a job share where Froome rides and Wiggo does his press interviews?

Shame... I doubt anyone based upon these replies actually gives a toss if Froome even turns up for the event, let alone whether he wins it.

Froome is an exciting rider only in relation to Wiggins, in that he'll actually attack rather than just riding tempo.

I'm amazed at the blind optimism of some of the posters on this thread, suggesting that Wiggins riding in the TdF would be a threat to Froome, as he could beat him. The plan all along has been that, IF Wiggins rode le Tour it would be in support of Froome.

If you're planning on winning the TdF the preparation and training for that starts at least a year out. You really can't decide you're going to win it and start your preparations four weeks out from the start.

As for PR / commercial blunders, I think it's a bit more grey than some are suggesting. Let's not forget that cycling, like most sports, is a business, and an expensive one at that (at the upper echelons). All that Team Sky stuff we've marvelled at, the incremental gains, the sports science, the advanced training regimes, let alone the infrastructure supporting it, costs, and costs big. Sponsors stumping up for that don't, generally, do it because they're fans, they're making a business decision.

The idea that all decisions will always be made for purely sporting reasons is therefore a little naïve, but obviously it can be a balancing act. Will not having the hero of 2012 riding out at the UK start be a blow, disappoint people, perhaps reduce the public enthusiasm a bit overall and therefore potentially be something that the paymasters at News International would rather wasn't the case? Quite possibly.

BUT, if it is a choice between winning the TdF without Wiggins or losing it with him, would they rather have the win than the sideburns? Undoubtedly.

To illustrate with reference to a sport where the brand power of individual sportsmen is further along the road, does anyone think that the amount of money LA Galaxy paid David Beckham was wholly, or even mostly, because of what they expected him to do on the pitch? Wiggins is, in this country, cycling's David Beckham, with all the commercial draw that that implies, and it can't be ignored.

EDIT: Personally, I'm more disappointed that Nairo Quintana's not riding, I'd have enjoyed seeing him tackle Holme Moss.

edlong - Member

EDIT: Personally, I'm more disappointed that Nairo Quintana's not riding, I'd have enjoyed seeing him tackle Holme Moss.

+1!

Bloody Valverde. But Quintana in the Giro was brilliant, and the Movistar team supporting him looked pretty formidable.

Maybe they could do a job share where Froome rides and Wiggo does his press interviews?

GENIUS 😆

if it is a choice between winning the TdF without Wiggins or losing it with him

Can they not win it with both of them though?

Anyway forget Froome and Wiggins. It's all about Cav in Harrogate for me. If he wins that stage i'll be happy! 😀

The idea that all decisions will always be made for purely sporting reasons is therefore a little naïve, but obviously it can be a balancing act. Will not having the hero of 2012 riding out at the UK start be a blow, disappoint people, perhaps reduce the public enthusiasm a bit overall and therefore potentially be something that the paymasters at News International would rather wasn't the case? Quite possibly.

And that's only taking into account the UK market - given the international coverage of the TdF it seems pretty clear to me that a winner is far more important than any single rider.

[quote=weeksy ]Shame... I doubt anyone based upon these replies actually gives a toss if Froome even turns up for the event, let alone whether he wins it.

I disagree. I think most people want to see an exciting rider and the best racing for the GC should be about mountains not a couple of TTs. Froome excels at the former and is no slouch at the latter either. I'd rather see him race than Wiggins.

Two TDF's for Froome and that'd royally piss on Wiggins chips wouldn't it? 😆

I don't personally see Froome as an exciting rider in all honesty, I'd rather see Nibali, Quintana, Valverde etc going up a mountain than Froome, not sure why but as a rider he just really irritates me, I don't find watching him even remotely enjoyable.

As a person/character I find him even less so.

How funny would this scenario be though:

Sky let Wiggins take time on the cobbles to control the jersey whilst taking the heat of Froome knowing that Froome is stronger in the mountains but Wiggins is Froomes last man who then hangs on to limit his losses and absolutely nails the 54km time trial on the penultimate stage to take the lead by a couple of seconds. Would sky rider race sky rider on the final stage?

Its maybe a fantasy, but it would be great fun to watch.

[i]If you're planning on winning the TdF the preparation and training for that starts at least a year out. You really can't decide you're going to win it and start your preparations four weeks out from the start.[/i]

+1 I thought the teams spent months upon months building upto the tour and tailoring their whole years training around the goal of peaking for the TdF? Dont the riders have some magic number they aim for, something to do with power output and weight?

I was always under the impression this years tour played more to Froomes strentghs rather than Wiggins, what with its lack of TT's. Having said that, Froome is no slouch in the TT either.

[i]Not if it's a less harmonious team[/i]

One of the many famous Sir Dave-isms is that team harmony is not important; goal harmony is.

If Wiggo rides the tour it'll be in support of Froome; that's a given. He'll only be picked if he accepts that that's his job wihin the team (and he's good enough, obviously)

not sure why but as a rider he just really irritates me, I don't find watching him even remotely enjoyable.

no pleasing some.

IMHO he is just bland and moody and IMHO cuddles does that so much better than he ever could

god you wait a hundred years for a tour winner then 2 come at once

And that's only taking into account the UK market - given the international coverage of the TdF it seems pretty clear to me that a winner is far more important than any single rider.

On that specific point, I dunno how Sky / News international would look at it. Team Sky is pretty much presented a lot of the time as being the commercial / professional bike racing arm of Team GB. From what I understand (two minutes on google so apologies if I've got this wrong) the "Sky" brand is only used in UK and Ireland..

How funny would this scenario be though:

Sky let Wiggins take time on the cobbles to control the jersey whilst taking the heat of Froome knowing that Froome is stronger in the mountains but Wiggins is Froomes last man who then hangs on to limit his losses and absolutely nails the 54km time trial on the penultimate stage to take the lead by a couple of seconds. Would sky rider race sky rider on the final stage?

Its maybe a fantasy, but it would be great fun to watch.

the "Sky" brand is only used in UK and Ireland..

and italy. The secondary sponsor is Twentieth Century Fox which is why the tour of California was important

I don't personally see Froome as an exciting rider in all honesty

You may not like his style on the bike but his actual performances are very impressive. Recall Ventoux?

I find it hard to believe that Wiggans isn't 'good enough' to make the team. There's Froome and Porte, so that leaves 7 others. Are you saying there are 7 Sky riders better than Wiggans? If so, name them. If not, he's in.

Unless Froome doesn't want him in... but is it up to him?

and italy. The secondary sponsor is Twentieth Century Fox which is why the tour of California was important

Indeed, hence why Valentino Rossis team is sponsored by Sky.

If Wiggo rides the tour it'll be in support of Froome; that's a given. He'll only be picked if he accepts that that's his job wihin the team (and he's good enough, obviously)

True, but assuming he gets picked Wiggins wouldn't be the first rider on a short contract to go rogue mid race.

I stand corrected, thanks all. The Fox sponsorship certainly makes more sense from a global business POV.

find it hard to believe that Wiggans isn't 'good enough' to make the team. There's Froome and Porte, so that leaves 7 others. Are you saying there are 7 Sky riders better than Wiggans? If so, name them. If not, he's in.

Unless Froome doesn't want him in... but is it up to him

Whilst he may be a better/faster rider, that only applies if he's actually performing the task he's been asked to do ? If he's not supporting him by riding at the front up a particular mountain because he's decided he's too good for that, then he's not better at all than the lower riders in the team. At least you know when you ask one of them to put in a 5km stint up a mountain they'll destroy themselves in the process to do it...

I'm not convinced Wiggins would

IMHO he is just bland and moody

Not the first time that's been said in this thread. Bland I can go with as he's like 70% of professional sportsmen; nothing interesting to say beyond their sport and frequently including their sport. Moody though, I've not seen much evidence of.

Team Sky is pretty much presented a lot of the time as being the commercial / professional bike racing arm of Team GB

In the UK maybe, here in Spain I've never noticed the commentators mention it.

He'll never go rogue, what's the point? Turn up the day after and hey presto, there's no bike for him.

At least you know when you ask one of them to put in a 5km stint up a mountain they'll destroy themselves in the process to do it...

I'm not convinced Wiggins would

Not up a mountain I'll grant you but when was the last (only?) time you've seen a yellow jersey rider lead out their sprinter going in to the final stage. I guess it makes a difference if you like the fella you're risking it for though.

If Wiggo does well in ToS then he is in

If he flounces out, he is out

I find it hard to believe that Wiggans isn't 'good enough' to make the team. There's Froome and Porte, so that leaves 7 others. Are you saying there are 7 Sky riders better than Wiggans? If so, name them. If not, he's in.

He needs to be 'good enough' for which ever roll Sky want him to play, which you would expect to be super domestique, next to Porte. If he can't play nice with his team mates, cant go downhill in the rain fast enough to keep up or abandons due to sulking then they're better to use someone else.

I reckon he probably really does want to race and would play along, hopefully having got all the shit out of his system, but it would be a big risk.

ChunkyMTB - Member
Wiggo won't be on the Tour... trust me...
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO #

Not up a mountain I'll grant you but when was the last (only?) time you've seen a yellow jersey rider lead out their sprinter going in to the final stage. I guess it makes a difference if you like the fella you're risking it for though

I think in simple terms when he was doing that he was quite simply enjoying the moment and glory (whilst doing the job for the team of course).. but I don't think that was down to a sense of him doing it out of duty. The team won plenty of stages that year without him in the leadout, they'd still have won it that day (probably)

his manager who is his partners tweets [ him basically IMHO], racing off on the climb,, autobiography moaning about that climb that tour and Wiggo in general...now I type it he might just hate Wiggo to be fair,

Not up a mountain I'll grant you but when was the last (only?) time you've seen a yellow jersey rider lead out their sprinter going in to the final stage

A leadout in the last 500m where you win even if you fall off is not the same as loosing 30 mins after destroying yourself up a mountain

I find it hard to believe that Wiggans isn't 'good enough' to make the team. There's Froome and Porte, so that leaves 7 others. Are you saying there are 7 Sky riders better than Wiggans? If so, name them. If not, he's in.

Unless Froome doesn't want him in... but is it up to him?

The way Froome talks he makes it seem like there only room for one "number 2" - namely Porte, which is clearly boll*cks. Plus how many races has Porte failed to finish in recent months - is it 3 ?
And as for the rest of the team being settled - more rubbish. Sky have been struggling to field a full team in a number of races, so they can ill afford to drop one of their few riders with any sort of form this season.

So if they do, it's purely going to be under threat from Froome.

They'll be crashes aplenty in that first week (surely Geraint Thomas is too much of a risk!!) so Sky ought to have a Plan B.

[quote=Junkyard ]his manager who is his partners tweets [ him basically IMHO], racing off on the climb,, autobiography moaning about that climb that tour and Wiggo in general...now I type it he might just hate Wiggo to be fair,

I get the feeling she was pretty bitter that Wiggo never thanked Froome for towing him up the mountains and then stiffing Froome out of his share of the winnings (TdF winners split their winnings usually, Wiggins did, just forgot Froome for about a year). I get the feeling they're just a bit chalk and cheese though and don't get on beyond keeping professional. I have a few people here I'd never have work with each other because something would go nuclear but they're happy to be polite in passing.

The way Froome talks he makes it seem like there only room for one "number 2" - namely Porte, which is clearly boll*cks. Plus how many races has Porte failed to finish in recent months - is it 3 ?

The Number 2 thing is about having a rider who could win the GC against the competition. I guess Froome feels that Porte would be better placed to win in mountains than Wiggins if he crashed. I don't know if that's true but he also is a mate of Portes so it'd be a far easier relationship during the race.

From the comfort of your desks who would your sky GC contenders top three be in order then?

I'd go

1: Froome
2: Wiggins
3: Porte.

Which is why I'd take Wiggins and Froome on the same team even if it meant renting a second bus for 3 weeks. I was poking the bear a bit earlier but in reality I think they can all be trusted to do the job that's required of them.

I'm not convinced Wiggins would...

(stay loyal/do what he's told/ride how the team want him to)

But there is no evidence of this? No precedent.

Why do people think Wiggans wouldn't support the team?

Or, taking a bigger view, why would Wiggans jeopardise his reputation? I just can't see it at all myself.

I reckon you'd have Froome and Porte as one and two, then Wiggins as super domestique, turn himself inside out up the start of climbs to keep the other two safe.

But there is no evidence of this? No precedent.

Millar bitches about him blowing out Garmin and not riding for the team in his book, but who knows the real story.

Yeah, Millar is quite clear that they gave Wiggins a chance to become a GC contender and he wriggled out of the final year of a contract despite giving assurances he was looking to extend the contract possibly up to 2012. I think they've reconciled but Wiggins does come out of it looking like a "me first" sort of person.

reggiegasket - Member

But there is no evidence of this? No precedent.

Why do people think Wiggans wouldn't support the team?

well, he wouldn't publicly state that he wouldn't ride for the team, he'd probably withdraw with an 'injury', perhaps a hurty knee?

Wiggins does come out of it looking like a "me first" sort of person.