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Was chatting to the ranger at my local forest at the weekend on this very subject.
During the last week he's had to deal with a sans helmet over the bars gashed head to the bone incident, and another where a guy has hit his head so hard that the resultant swelling could lead to the loss of an eye.
The simple fact is that no one gets up in the morning and decides that todays the day to have a severe stack, any more than you can decide to get up and not have one.
Simple principle is that wearing a helmet will not kill you (regardless of TJ's arguments to the contrary), not wearing one might. No brainer IMHO.
[i]Because I'm out of shape and take any excuse to stop at the moment?[/i]
Well errrm, you see I'm way unfit still and yeah I just kind of say "I'm knackered". I still do distance though but hills are killing me, slowly getting there and to be fair they were good size hills on Saturday. Not as good as French Cols though and it wasn't as hot as France too but you know what I love Northumberland me.
ok 'here' 'here' ....Reguardless of the 'heat'..... ALWAYS WEAR A HELMET ...IT COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE !
end of discussion i think...
Make your own decisions based on risks and circumstances.
Well if people think they are going to be hotter with a helmet... Well they are deluded.
Try riding in the blazing sun of midday in Nice when the tarmac melts, and you'll be begging for a helmet.
I think I can safely say that there's no circumstances on earth that'll ever have me begging for your helmet juan.
Confession 1. I have just spent two and a half days at afan/glyncorrwyg. 😳 I saw lots of people with their helmets off on the climbs including the wiggly/wobbly bits.
Confession 2. I did the Twrch trail at Cwmcarn on the way home today and I was so hot, knackered and possibly a little bit hungover that I had an OTB going [i]up[/i] the very first section. 😳 I am glad I had my helmet on.
I've had to tie a t-shirt round a head to hold scalp onto a very visible skull when a mountain biker head butted a rock on a land rover track. It was a life changing event for this guy. I wear a helmet, I'll take the risk with rotational injuries thanks.
And my wife was a nurse on a neurological ward until recently - head injuries don't need to be fatal to ruin your life. Out on your bike today, never sleeping sitting up in bed eating your own excrement the next week. I have it from a reliable source. I have other stories, used to get them every day after her shift.
This thread demonstrates a facet of natural selection in action.
Oh look - the usual hysterical holier than thou crowd arrive!
"wear a helmet or you will surely die" Even if all you are doing is pootling along an old railway line. When the odds are millions to one than I will accept that risk.
Do you wear a helmet when you are walking? Running? Driving?
elaine anne - Memberok 'here' 'here' ....Reguardless of the 'heat'..... ALWAYS WEAR A HELMET ...IT COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE !
end of discussion i think...
Does that include walking to the shops?
[i]Well if people think they are going to be hotter with a helmet... Well they are deluded.[/i]
Or you realise that there not very good at getting rid of heat. Try wearing a Balaclava next time there's a heat wave in France. I do wish I had my buff with me know to take the heat of my now exposed head.
TJ, relax fella, there is simply no way of convincing these people; the discussion has much in common with those about religion...
Some people are absolutely, utterly convinced that a inch of polystyrene will save their lives, and there is no way to change that mindset.
Again, though, I am impressed by the sheer bravery of those who would expose themselves to life changing head injury in the name of sport with only a polystyrene hat for protection...
...and as for neuro nurses, ask her what the major contributory factor was to the accidental head injury she saw; I'll bet a large sum of money it wasn't cycling; more likely to be alcohol or driving, so why don't we wear helmets when going out for a drink or when we get in the car?
Yes, a helmet will save you from minor injuries, and it's really not that hard to 'gash your head to the bone' given the thinness of the skin there, but save you from a proper life threatening head injury? Give over.
Please continue; there have been far less 'a helmet saved my life' contributions than usual on this thread.
Try riding in the blazing sun of midday in Nice when the tarmac melts, and you'll be begging for a helmet.
I have done exactly that with no helmet and didn't want one. are you bald or something?
GW not bald not, but a helmet provie a nice cover from the sun and keeps your head well chilled once dipped in water.
I have just broke one by otbing a few days ago. And i don't care waht TJ says, the helmet did save me from some injuries.
Simple question for TJ and the like
Given your views why wear a helmet at all?
Comments such as these are self evidently contradictory to your views so why do it?
1) Helmet free ride on saturday - a deliberately chosen route of minimal gnar and speed
2) If I want to try something that I think is a bit dodgy I will wear my full face and knee pads
3) I ditched mine altogether yesterday, I went out at a stupid time, the trails were extra busy with walkers etc, so I just had a nice pootle instead of a mad thrash
4) I put it back on for most descents, honestly on the climbs it wasn't worth it but thanks so much for your concern.
I am wholly impressed by the superior zenlike ability to decide when you are going to fall, and most of all your ability to argue how ineffectual they are but then how you decide you must wear them when doing something "dangerous". Presumably you deploy the same arguments regarding PPE at work, the wearing of seatbelts, or helmets on motorbikes, or driving on the wrong side of the road, ad infinitum, rejecting all of those as unnecessary infringements of you civil liberties as well?
Now while I personally regard anyone who rides off-road without a helmet as having rather suspect logic it does differ from most of those other examples given in not being illegal currently!
BB, don't directly debate with the forum hot heads!
It's the law........
Can I just answer - then I'll shut up......
BB - its about rational risk assessment - so some rides the risks are low - in the millions to one - of having a serious accident. That is a risk I am prepared to take.
Some rides the risks are higher - then I wear one as a helmet is good protection from minor injuries and probably mitigates major.
Crikey - you are right.
Against my better judgement, because I know I won't change your opinion,
[i]I am wholly impressed by the superior zenlike ability to decide when you are going to fall, and most of all your ability to argue how ineffectual they are but then how you decide you must wear them when doing something "dangerous". Presumably you deploy the same arguments regarding PPE at work, the wearing of seatbelts, or helmets on motorbikes, or driving on the wrong side of the road, ad infinitum, rejecting all of those as unnecessary infringements of you civil liberties as well?[/i]
PPE at work has a reasonable evidence base.
Seatbelt effectiveness has a reasonable evidence base.
Helmets on motorbikes has a reasonable evidence base.
Driving on the wrong side of the road has a reasonable evidence base.
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[b]Cycle helmets don't.[/b]
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...and I'm old enough to have ridden a bike when cycle helmets weren't even invented, other than the leather 'hairnet' style ones.
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...and given that the majority of cyclists wear helmets these days, where is the evidence that the number of head injuries has fallen?
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Everyone is sooooooooooooooo sure, so 100% sure about the effectiveness of helmets, and they are equally sure that to ride without one is mad and dangerous, so why is there [b]no definitive evidence[/b] that they work?
As above, I'm not interested in trying to convince anyone, but try to think things through and you will begin to see that the popular opinion of cycling helmets is largely a myth.
...and, think about the lack of litigation in the most litigious nation on earth with regard to injuries suffered by helmet wearing cyclists...No-one sues helmet manufacturers when they fail, because there is no case to answer; they don't protect against any serious head injury, never have, never will because they are not designed to...
I wear one, but I don't believe in any magical powers; I wear it to make my riding buddies feel better.
I wear one, but I don't believe in any magical powers; I wear it to make my riding buddies feel better
riiiiight..if your that sure they didn't do anything you wouldn't wear one at all...don't spout bollox..
As for all the comments about the helmet evangalicals, lets not forget there are kids on here which might be influenced by the TJ 'i'll make my own decisions, i'm an adult...blah blah. for the little inconvenience a helmet worn is, it might save ur head from a visit to the hospital
I used to do the occasional ride without a helmet, but a couple years ago came across an accident where a teenager was riding without a helmet on relatively easy/flat trail. Going around a sharp U-turn at slow speed, she fell inwards and impaled her upper left skull on a rock that was embedded alongside the trail. When I got there, they had her on a stretcher, with a bloody bandage the size of half a soccer ball on her head. The paramedic said she would be lucky if she didn't have permanent damage as the rock had penetrated about 1/2 inch through her skull. Got my attention---have never ridden without a helmet since.
Cycle helmets don't
Says whom?.... evidence please?
so why is there no definitive evidence that they work?
As I've said to TJ many times previously. You cannot argue a negative. i.e. prove to me that by not wearing a helmet that you would have been injured. How about you prove to me that they don't work? Surely you must have a great long list of people who have been killed or seriously injured by a head injury whilst wearing one, that data should be very easy to compile.
...and, think about the lack of litigation in the most litigious nation on earth with regard to injuries suffered by helmet wearing cyclists
Utter cods! Go sell that one to the FC who are currently busily trying to protect themselves from litigation left right and centre.
Like I said, anecdotally, I was talking to my local forest ranger at the weekend.....
and because I do so regularly I don't need evidence, I see it contantly. However, I am willing to be swayed by the deployment of yours/TJ's. Persuade me of the folly of my ways, feel free, but please try to avoid self evidently ridiculous statements like the above. Its not really worth the discussion when you do that.
I do not believe I just read this
nockmeister - Memberlets not forget there are kids on here which might be influenced by the TJ 'i'll make my own decisions, i'm an adult...blah blah.
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Ok bb I'll answer too. I wear one for protection it might only be a little but it's some. I choose when to wear based on risk that yes can be easily assesed. To use your metaphor the same way I risk asses at work way up the potential hazards. I don't claim to see the future but it don't take a genuis to work out riding up a fire road or glass sloped hill poses very little risk.
Above all I choose not to wear one when I want because I have that freedom of choice.
And your point is TJ? Its a fair and valid point. Not no 1 in the argument, but fair and valid.
Can I just answer - then I'll shut up......
Perhaps a previous head injury suffered by this poster causes them to be unable to follow their own suggestion?
I've got it! All the folk who argue badly* that wearing helmets automatically for each ride is stupid were dropped on their heads as children. That would explain everything!
*Because "I don't want to" is a fair comment but some of the above posts are pure nonsense......
And the fact the anti-helmet proponents seem to be nearer the grave than other commentards says something I reckon. Grumpy old men, stuck in their ways.....
And what about [url= http://www.on-line-seminars.com/index.php?p=1_11_Summer-Branch-Drop ]this[/url]. Are we ever safe?!
Species most often reported in Britain to be susceptible to summer branch drop.
Quercus spp.
Populus spp.
Salix spp.
Ulmus procera
Castanea sativa
Fagus sylvatica
Fraxinus excelsior
Aesculus hippocastanum
😯
Meh, as I said, it's like religion and there is so little give on either side that it's pointless.
My position is that I don't believe that helmets will protect you from a serious head injury.
There is statistical evidence out there, but there is little point in asking people to look; you have made a decision and that's what you believe...
Notice that I don't use abuse or suggest that your point of view is 'ridiculous', or talk about the 'folly' of your ways....
Light reading; http://cyclehelmets.org/
I see people with serious head injuries as part of my job, and I've never thought that helmets would make much difference to the vast majority that I see...
Berm Bandit - MemberAnd your point is TJ? Its a fair and valid point. Not no 1 in the argument, but fair and valid.
You seriously think I should change my behaviour because of what some strangers children might think? Weird
Did a bit of DH mincing recently. Invested in a ff helmet - thought it was a bit of an overkill. However did have a head/tree interface - the protection was awesome - didn't feel a thing so justified i think 🙂
Crikey what a dick
I just don't understand the evangelical zeal with which some people are taken with helmet wearing... to the extent that people who don't wear helmets deserve what they get, or they'd refuse to even help someone who had an accident and wasn't wearing a helmet. There are the same sort of voices in the climbing community as well, and I just don't understand them either...
Why does it matter so much what other people do when out on a bike?
Anyway, surely it's more dangerous to ride full speed down a black route at a trail centre with a helmet, than pootle around a local route without one. Why is the risk of the first acceptable, but the second not?
You seriously think I should change my behaviour because of what some strangers children might think? Weird
I wouldn't think it necessary. They'd just have to read some of your posts on here and assume you'd fallen and hit your head at some point. 😉
zenlike ability to decide when you are going to fall
I don't at all. But quite clearly a proportion of the riding I do has a risk level roughly similar to walking. If you wear the same protective equipment for riding down a rocky path on the edge of a cliff at 25mph as you do for riding along a flat canal towpath at 10mph then you're probably either over or under protected for one of those activities.
And if you're at serious risk of death when riding along a canal towpath there's something to be said for your elimination from the gene-pool on grounds of gross incompetence. [i] "Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers, won't drown."[/i]
This doesn't apply to children, who are allowed to fall off slow-moving bicycles on flat surfaces for no reason, and commonly do. 🙂
I reckon the canal towpath is one of the more dangerous places I ride, given the unpredictable nature of the other traffic.
the canal towpath is one of the more dangerous places I ride
It does sound like you probably need a helmet then. At a minimum. Possibly also kneepads and a life-jacket, but it'd be a shame if this was made compulsory. 🙂
BB - its about rational risk assessment - so some rides the risks are low - in the millions to one - of having a serious accident. That is a risk I am prepared to take.
I just don't understand the evangelical zeal with which some people are taken with helmet wearing... to the extent that people who don't wear helmets deserve what they get, or they'd refuse to even help someone who had an accident and wasn't wearing a helmet. There are the same sort of voices in the climbing community as well, and I just don't understand them either...
Well it comes with the fact that you may take the risks, but we all pay for it. No one can pretend not to fall on a ride specially not TJ (who is probably a poor rider, as he's slower than I am... And I am average less).
Now some people know things better than everyone else, which is very easy when other people pays for your mistakes.
No one can pretend not to fall on a ride
Exactly, that's why accidents are called accidents 😉
Anyone who thinks they can accurately predict when, how and why they will fall off a bicycle is really deluded.
Decide yourself about to wear or not to wear a helmet, but don't try and justify it with some bullshine about risk asessment or rationality, just make your choice and STFU 😉
And anyway I kept my helmet on.....which was nice
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juan - Member....specially not TJ (who is probably a poor rider, as he's slower than I am
The Tartan Jesus is a 'racer' now dontcha know 😆
[i]Anyone who thinks they can accurately predict when, how and why they will fall off a bicycle is really deluded.
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good job no one claimed that then.
juan - MemberWell it comes with the fact that you may take the risks, but we all pay for it. No one can pretend not to fall on a ride specially not TJ (who is probably a poor rider, as he's slower than I am... And I am average less).
Now some people know things better than everyone else, which is very easy when other people pays for your mistakes.
So why is it okay to hurl oneself at 30-40mph down a hillside on a bike with only a helmet for protection? I would imagine that the risk of injury is significantly higher for that, that riding along a Sustrans route without a helmet.
Are you still not putting yourself at risk of injury that, as you put it, other people have to pay for? If not, why not?
I decided not to wear a helmet for this mornings ride, I took no spairs no tools no pump nothing and all was fine until...
I did a small tail whip and got a bloody puncture. I never get punctures!!!
Then on the walk back to the car I realised my forks were only giving me about 50mm!
So conclusive proof if you don't wear a helmet you will brake your bike. 🙁
hilldodger - MemberDecide yourself about to wear or not to wear a helmet, but don't try and justify it with some bullshine about risk asessment or rationality, just make your choice and STFU
Excellent... risk assessments are bull$h*t now, I'm sure the HSE would like to be told this... it'd certainly make their job easier!
;o)
I try hard not to get involved in this well worn debate - but I have to take exception. Of course you can restrain your riding to the point where you never fall off. Or at least so seldom and so mildly that it amounts to the same thing. Risk assessment done correctly is a perfectly good way to go about things.
Light reading; http://cyclehelmets.org/
LOL (knew that was coming)
This "evidence" works on the same level as citing the BNP as experts on immigration. i.e. its a pressure group with a one sided view trying to prove their bias. By that simple fact they have self evidently written off pretty much everything they say as being fundamentally flawed.
So try again Crikey. TJ's been quoting that twaddle for years. Its still twaddle regardless of how often its referred to.
Now then tell me about this ability to pre-select the time place, speed and severity of your offs. Obviously you can do this, as you claim to wear a helmet when its necessary and not when it isn't.
Personally I don't give a toss whether you wear one or not. Its absolutely your call, however please keep away from me when you're riding, as I don't want responsibility for you, and preferably try not to ride where the land owners are concerned about litigation due to the severity of the injuries on their land. I don't need my riding opportunities to become even more restricted than they are now.
Oh yeah, and one other thing, regarding my earlier comments regarding wearing a helmet on a motorcycle. The technology for the constuction of cycle helmets is the same technology as used for M/C helmets, and isn't simply an inch of polystyrene as you claim. So obviously you would be against the wearing of M/c helmets for the same reasons you would be anti cycle ones...... right?
Face it, the choice is yours, and I don't think anyone would dispute your right to make it, but there is no reasoned argument other than free choice. So don't try to justify it with utter crap.
Reading these threads makes me wonder just how frequently are people falling off?