[Closed] Nicolai Helius AC 650b demo

Enjoy 😀

The AC range are fantastically capable bikes. I'm coming up for a year on my AC 29er and it still makes me grin like a loon every time I ride it......and nothing phases it, not even DH tracks. The new ION's look bl**dy good too.

Really want to try an Ion 16 with that wheel size but it's not going to happen 🙁 . Going to try an Ion 15 (29er) soon though 8)

Enjoy!

I'm with yetiman, my custom AC 29r is excellent, just not as good as my non custom AC 29r IMO.

That'd look good with some Pikes and a CCDBAir

That'd look good with some [s]Pikes and a CCDBAir[/s] Devills and a Kirk

It will look good with some Pikes, CCDB CS air , and Enve rims 🙂
Now to decide on colours

Anodized orange, got to be !

Looked at that my CC is Red front black rear.

Quite like Ano bronze front ano black rear, or ano titanium with black rear or sea sick green or ......
This is the hardest bit with these.
[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/83pLp2w-2HqewoRbBanifSQLmWLM95QGwrwDkfBznYw=w345-h259-p-no [/img]
[img] https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/SzrGGKtnMWFAAnClpNFTejmfkf-WyEGOHT3fBh4YXck=w395-h259-p-no [/img]

Let us know if the trails come alive.

shredder - Member
Looked at that my CC is Red front black rear.

Quite like Ano bronze front ano black rear, or ano titanium with black rear or sea sick green or ......
This is the hardest bit with these

O had that dilemma. I cleverly solved the issue by having no colour at all. Best way to go with Nicolai.

Just out of curiousity did you find any truth in following comment from bikeradar's review..?

The long wheelbase and back end mean it’s not a natural hop-and-pop machine though, and even with relatively light wheels it’s more plough-like than playful.

Im coming from a CC so it instantly felt more planted and stable coming down some interesting bits. Down to the more relaxed angles im sure, also haven't had a bike with this amount of travel before.

It didn't feel tank like to me was able to pop off lips and put it just where I wanted. But I have found the CC like that, for me out of all the bikes I have had the Nics seem to go just where you want them.

To sum up it felt bombproof, nice and precise and lively.

Maybe the trails came alive 😉 But picked up speed very quickly. Give it another ride tmrw over some local rocky rooty bits.

Another pic not the best.
[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mW5wzMf3v1VH6SOKacH3L5i-ISjnPrrQWu_KgMVklHA=w460-h259-p-no [/img]

Find my AC 650b a fun and playfull bike.
Looks good,rides well,Takes the Abuse.

Running Revs at the moment but my new Pikes just arrived,so will try and fit them next week.

Ion 16 is a stunning bike,Very tempted..Loved my old Ion ST Dh bike..And the Ion 16 looks like a perfect play bike,Looking at a 28.5 lb build with 1x11, Thats what Nicolai Germany's Test/Demo bike weighs..

Nicolaisam, what size pikes did you go for? Am debating on whether to go for 150 as suggested by nicolai or up it to 160. Mostly ride aggresive xc so my thinking is that 150 might be a quicker repsonse. Any help would be good as I've got dipper ordering me 150 at the mo thanks
Andy

I do really like the look of Nicolai bikes, very purposeful or something (quite like the Ion 16). Also like Liteville bikes but will probably go with the YT Wicked 650b due to unbeatable value for money and rather limited funds.

ballas - Member

Nicolaisam, what size pikes did you go for? Am debating on whether to go for 150 as suggested by nicolai or up it to 160. Mostly ride aggresive xc so my thinking is that 150 might be a quicker repsonse. Any help would be good as I've got dipper ordering me 150 at the mo thanks
Andy

I have gone for the 160mm versions,Decided that 10mm would make very little difference so went for the longest travel.
They are here and still sat in the box..Havent had time to fit them.

What's the build on that Ion 16 test bike, Sam?

^^ I wouldn't mind knowing either! I'm ordering my Ion 16 650b next week, just struggling with colours lol!

HG thanks for getting back to my email!

Still struggling with colours here as well 😕

Haha, I think I've decided on final colour choice at least a dozen times 🙄

Got to be jagermeister with ano blue extra love.

Would love to get my cc done in this

[img] [/img]

Nice cable/hose tidy type thing. Like.

Honourablegeorge can't remember exactly on the demo but its not carbon wheeled etc. XX1 but then generally standard non exotic stuff, hope hoops running flows, hope hardware, Pikes, Monarch piggy back when I was there.

If you specced it like my Ion15 maybe with Derby rims, tubeless, carbon bar, ESI grips, lightish saddle. XT brakes and decent weight pedals you should be looking around 27lbs even with chunky tyres.

Honourablegeorge can't remember exactly on the demo but its not carbon wheeled etc. XX1 but then generally standard non exotic stuff, hope hoops running flows, hope hardware, Pikes, Monarch piggy back when I was there.

If you specced it like my Ion15 maybe with Derby rims, tubeless, carbon bar, ESI grips, lightish saddle. XT brakes and decent weight pedals you should be looking around 27lbs even with chunky tyres.

And is it a plough, nothing like exaggerated language, it has 7mm longer stays than the Bike of the moment the Bronson, which in the UK means mud clearance with a big tyre...the other wheelbase factor is a function of headangle and toptube length, and that's a horses for courses trade off between flick ability and stability, depends what you like. Long, low , wide bar etc...all sorts of set up factors make such a difference..

philbert31 - Member

HG thanks for getting back to my email!

No worries.

Chainline - Member
Honourablegeorge can't remember exactly on the demo but its not carbon wheeled etc. XX1 but then generally standard non exotic stuff, hope hoops running flows, hope hardware, Pikes, Monarch piggy back when I was there.

Interesting. I had mine at 31 (Crossmax SX, Deville, Vip'r, XTR 1x10, carbon bars, light saddle, reverb, HDs) but on a fairly ropey scale. Must weight it properly.

Honourablegeorge. The deville is a bit heavier than a Pike , just under 1lb in fact, ( love the deville damping tho. Still my favourite) . Carbon wheels even with a Hope would be 100ish lighter with a cxray spoke. Using something like DTSwiss another 100g. lighter than that. So 1.1/2lbs there. Most saddles, even claimed light ones are 250g. Whereas if your careful mid 170g is doable on someing like a Ti-Fly SDG or if you're a bit sad like me 72 g for my carbon one (its the most comfortable saddle I've owned! The bugger is I've broke it and need to get another (my own fault when trying to re-lacquer it) dale not the best place to lose weight tho, no point if its not comfortable.

There is 100g in lock on Vs ESI grips, its easy to lose 75g with careful stem selection too (Pointone is very light but still very strong) whereas my Easton 35 is a bit of a brick!
Tyres obviously make a massive difference, 400g in a heartbeat between different size/make tyres and also brake discs. I run Magura storm SL, which are again about 100g lighter than a shimano pair but still one piece stainless and not skinny, but you can pay for it a bit in brake pulse at low speed.

Is a bit of an incremental gain in many ways. The last pound or two often needs careful thinking about and it never comes that cheap. Best value weight savings for me, grips & brake discs.

I should say I didn't weigh the demo as a disclaimer...

There's only 200/250g between the Pike and Deville, closer to 1/2 a pound. And the 100g thing with ESL grips is a bit of a myth - ESL quote 60g for their lighter grips, set of ODI lockons with clamps is [url= ]108g[/url]. I wouldn't give up lock ons for 50g, love the Troy Lee grips I have.

TBH, I don't think there's much on the bike I'd swap for lighter stuff (XX1 aside). Am wary of rotors being too light. On Hans Dampf at the moment, been cutting them of late though, nothing that hasn't sealed with tubeless and putting a bit of air back in, but I'd go heavier in tyres before I'd go lighter.What saddle are you on? Had a Ti-Fly before, but it frayed quickly and ended up with some sharp edges, binned it.

Got one of these stems - it's a bit of a bargain, can be had on EBay for 50-60 quid, lighter than anything else out there, Ti bolts standard, and good for 800m bars and DH use - 122g in 50mm.

http://www.syntace.com/index.cfm?pid=3&pk=2050

Blimey, Wiggo to the thread".....!

Nicolai germany's build is

frame size L
Pike Solo Air
Monarch Plus RC3
Reverb Stealth 150mm seatpost
wheelset Hope pro 2, ZTR Arch EX (on the picture). We are a bit short on wheelsets at the moment but the Flow EX rim is already ordered.
XX1 groupset
X0 Trail brakes
Continental Rubber Queen 2.4 front
Continental Mountain King 2.4 rear

The prettiest Nic I ever saw was done in matt black, really brought out the detail in the frame while still looking a bit like a barbeque. If I could afford one, that's what it'd be.

Like this ?

[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3758/11266739875_0536481d86.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3758/11266739875_0536481d86.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/62031621@N06/11266739875/ ]IMAG0406[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/62031621@N06/ ]the_lecht_rocks[/url], on Flickr

This thread has my mouth watering

My next bike will be an Ion 16 or an AC both with 'that' wheelsize'

Will be for Enduro racing as well as just 'normal' technical trail riding (same thing - I know)

Truly love Nicolai's - my 8 year old CC and 7 year old FR are in superb condition. Wish I could test ride both options but will likely come down to a gut feeling . Nice problem to have I know 🙂

nicolaisam - Member
Nicolai germany's build is

frame size L
Pike Solo Air
Monarch Plus RC3
Reverb Stealth 150mm seatpost
wheelset Hope pro 2, ZTR Arch EX (on the picture). We are a bit short on wheelsets at the moment but the Flow EX rim is already ordered.
XX1 groupset
X0 Trail brakes
Continental Rubber Queen 2.4 front
Continental Mountain King 2.4 rear

Hmm. Arch wheelset is probably a nice few g lighter than my setup, ans XX1 saves a bit, and the Pike.

I should buy a proper scale, and disappoint myself with it.

I'm a bit disappointed with Nicolai's current XC/Trail line up. I was considering a replacement for my CC and wanted to stick with Nicolai in 27.5

120-130mm travel with 27.5 wheels. The TB is 29er in my size (medium) and the AC has more travel than I want.

I'll probably just stick with my CC a bit longer for now and hope that they revise the range.

Might get Nicolai to weigh my bike for me, be the cheapest upgrade all year 🙂

Any ideas on how much more a painted frame weighs than an anodised frame

I had heard that because Nicolai does such a solid job on the paint work it could be approaching 1 lb. Seems high to me.

240g I believe....

240g I believe....

I remember that figure being bandied around on the MTBR forum and it was for Dippers daft fancy Koi camo colour which required loads of paint.

I also read somewhere that its 100g if you go for painted front part and ano rear.

Apparently choosing the colour is difficult... my bikes always end up looking the colour of the local mud 😳

[img] [/img]

It averages about 300g for paint.

Neninja you can always just ask for a custom TB, a small with longer TT/ST. Clearly that is more expensive, have a chat with Gravity Sports, but if you wanted to say with Nicolai it would do it. You could discuss any other changes you might prefer too.

HobNob, don't you ride Special eds carbon wonder bike? I presume that's a gentle brand dig 😉
Nicolai are pretty conservative with their weights since they always take the position that the bikes long term integrity and the way it rides is more important. When I've discussed target weights for frames with them they have always refused if they remotely consider it would impact their reputation in terms of frame stiffness or longevity.

If you do a component weight breakdown in a spreadsheet of the demo build with a 3250g frame you get pretty much that weight, if not a touch less.

My Ion15 frame in L is 3.3kg.

300g seems a lot for paint, but stans painted rims are 40g heavier than the anodised ones so it makes sense as a frame takes a lot more paint.

Weight-weenies always go for anodised 🙄 (although I guess true weight-weenies would never look at a Nicolai since they are not carbon 😉 ).

You don't buy a Nicolai because you want a light bike, you buy it for top quality German engineering, durability and a superb ride.

I have a Nicolai Helius AC 2013 26" which isn't a 27.5" but many would argue the only difference is the number after the name.

Anyway, it's a superb bike in every way and climbs like a demon. It is size large, has 160mm Pikes front and has been built up fit for purpose for where I mainly ride which is the mountains of Scotland and the Lakes. It weighs in at just over 31lbs and I could spend £100's making it a bit lighter but I am a big lad and most of the descents round here are like full on DH courses so it needs to stay in one piece. I am amazed (and a bit skeptical) at how light some people claim their Nicolai's are but I would say the key thing would be wheel and tyre choice to get the weight down.

I got mine in raw as it was one of the free options and I assumed it would wear much harder than paint. If I had the money I would have opted for anodized but nothing to do with weight and everything to do with how durable that would be.

I think the main thing with Nicolai's is they ride miles lighter than they weigh and really are superbly well made. I am planning another 2 Nicolai's over the next 2 years but will gladly pay the 26" premium to future proof myself against the next industry lead MTB marketing con job which will be re-inventing 26" wheels within 3 years!!! 🙂

+1 for Gravity Sports, top bloke and great service (and best price for Nicolai's in the UK!)

Duir, I agree on the weight...it's costs alot to lose a little and its incremental, you have to look everywhere, there are places where compromise is ok and some where its not but it depends so much on where and what you ride. You can save loads of weight in tyres butt that's no good if you cut them all the time, dropper posts weigh a ton, but ai personally would ride without one now.
I ve a load in my saddle and that suits me but for many its a torture device...
Much like wheel size it's horses for courses, one mans stable rocketship is another mans dull plough.

[img] [/img]

Gravity Sports Ion 15 which I plan to be chucking a leg over shortly 8)

I rode that ion 15 a while ago. Over active and hyper sensitive compared to my AC but the rear CCDs air was bottomless. Nice bike.

Has anyone got a working phone number for Gravity Sports, there's nothing on the site and the number I got on Google doesn't work!

I am very tempted by the raw look. My knees tend to rub off paint / anodising on the top tube and my heel on the non drive chainstay

I agree weight is not a key factor but when considering a new bike it is good to bat about the options and the pros and cons.

I have had 5 Nicolai's - all have been anodised black 😳

Philbert31 ygm

Gravity Sports: 07812 186169

TLR as the person who had a hand in the ldesign of both the AC and Ion I'm surprised you found that.

I think you'll find we did a pretty damn good job with the Ion15 🙂 the Ion is much more optimised around a 1x10, it is designed to work very well in out the saddle pedalling and in rough terrain but It is more sensitive to shock setup for sat down pedalling

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/nicolai-ion-15-2014.html

Cheers Chainline!