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I've been playing about electroplating some different bike parts (stems and bars etc.) .
Originally I was just putting down a layer of nickel to then do some copper and then clearcoat as my kid is obsessed with copper bling at the moment.
It's actually turned out really nice all by itself and has a lovely glow when polished up and makes for a much more scratch resistant surface.
I'm toying with the idea of just doing a whole raw frame ... but other than the cost of some nickel and logistics of a bath big enough I'm wondering about downsides.
Obviously I want to avoid filling in threads and if possible the inside altogether but I'm wondering if it will crack or flake or something? I'd thought some nitrile gloves and/or cling film would protect threads etc but I can always chase them out anyway.
Shove some blutac down the threads ?
I think cracking/flaking etc will be down to your surface prep. I’ve not done any electroplating for at least 15 yrs - but for something as big as a frame the currents must be fairly high? I suspect you may also need to think a lot about the geometry to get an even coating.
Have you considered electroless plating? It’s like black magic but might be more suited (although materials are more expensive).
I’d have thought several wraps of plumbers tape would be a good way to protect external threads, and screwing something into the internal threads would be the ideal way to protect them.
Shove some blutac down the threads ?
Yeah I'm more thinking how to try and keep the entire inside dry... but that sounds great for plugging the drain/welding holes
(Other than cost it would be really hard to ensure the flow inside and get electrodes in so it would end up with a pretty horrid lumpy/flaky coating inside - not that you'd see it but ??)
Poly
Well more experience than I have and more recent 😉 I'd guess late 70's maybe early 80's was the last time with my father (who was a metallurgist)
Have you considered electroless plating? It’s like black magic but might be more suited .
I had but I'm really taken by the colour (and I think the electroless is much darker?)... though I suppose I could lay down a coat of electroless first???
although materials are more expensive
I'd not looked to deep into the chemistry yet but I'd assumed I could find some phosphorous salts I could use to make my own. Whether I can do that safely at home might be a different matter though. [Due to Covid I've got very limited FFP3 filters or ability to buy new]
but for something as big as a frame the currents must be fairly high? I suspect you may also need to think a lot about the geometry to get an even coating.
Currents are amazingly low... I've been using a car battery charger to create the electrolyte but AA batteries for the plating of a stem. I was thinking of using nickel tape (for creating battery packs) for the anode then it can be put around the outside of whatever container I can fashion...
(I have some spare cutoffs of EPDM roofing I thought would work for the container)
Sounds really good, I love the look of nickel plate on classic cars and motorbikes
Sounds really good, I love the look of nickel plate on classic cars and motorbikes
Yep it has a (to me) lovely warm glow. Polished Al alloys look nice but have a (to me) cold more sterile look... it's like the difference between fluorescent lights and 'warm white'.
Back of my mind on this is why no-one's done it?
With raw and even anodised frames being (IMHO) so nice I'm wondering if I'm missing something other than cost?
Didn’t Orange do nickel on P7 frames back in about 1997? They stopped due to quality issues (they rusted under the nickel, particularly near the welds and forced the nickel off).
I had one but I cannot recall if it was proper nickel or some sort of nickel paint.
They did look lovely new though.
Ohh... yep..(just googled). though I guess the point for the P7 it's it's steel.
Found a few pics as well and it looks lovely.
Probable reason no one bothers is that you can get better corrosion resistance and better results with a chrome effect powder coat. Also something like a frame is going to be an absolute bugger for leaks and staining after processing.
I've got a 26" nickel plated frame from Wheeler Industries, probably 20 years old now. Nickel is still good. certainly stands out!
wheelie
I’ve got a 26″ nickel plated frame from Wheeler Industries, probably 20 years old now. Nickel is still good. certainly stands out!
Oooh any pics? Has it got a yellowish patina?
Murrey
Brompton did it
ugggh ... especially some of those different metal mixes.
Nickel plated frames used to be quite common in the early/mid 90s. They looked nice when fresh but had a real tendency to develop a lot of rust spots over time.
Bez
Nickel plated frames used to be quite common in the early/mid 90s. They looked nice when fresh but had a real tendency to develop a lot of rust spots over time.
I'm thinking though they were mainly steel frames back then?
It's a valid point though, I might need to look up the electro potential between aluminium and nickel and remember some vaguely remembered science?
I have a Charge Mixer, and that's nickel plated I think, I bought it 2nd hand as a hack bike to stick a kids seat on, but it looks quite smart
BEZ
Nickel plated frames used to be quite common in the early/mid 90s. They looked nice when fresh but had a real tendency to develop a lot of rust spots over time.
I think that was why you should copperplate first, then nickel. As I understand it, nickel is slightly porous.
To care for a nickel plated item you should polish it with a decent quality wax.
Those P7 frames were lovely.
I've just discovered that with electroless nickel plating, you can get the option of a non-stick surface.
Sounds ideal for a MTB frame.
Don't know if it's suitable for DIY though.
Any suggestions for suppliers of the chemical? I fancy a go at this.
I dunno but god I want to see pictures when its done.
I have a Canfield Nimble 9 chrome plated and Canfield advised me to get some problem solver stuff (I used ACF-50) it's a 2014 but hardly any rust
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274542122845
You can make nickel sulphate yourself.
I got 98% sulphuric delivered (Oneshot)... PPE strongly advised, using a 2 stage reaction with hydrogen peroxide is probably safer at home!
Sorry just coming back to this.
I had but I’m really taken by the colour (and I think the electroless is much darker?)… though I suppose I could lay down a coat of electroless first???
Ooh, now you are testing my memory - I wasn't plating for aesthetics - so I'm not sure. There were different chemistries around with different phosphorus content that had different properties - but then you are probably getting out of "DIY" levels.
Don’t know if it’s suitable for DIY though.
Any suggestions for suppliers of the chemical? I fancy a go at this.
You can buy kits for DIY use - I was doing stuff on 100-200 mL at a time - not sure if it would be silly money to do a frame... or at least for a one off you'd want to engineer the "bucket" to have as little dead space as possible.
Currents are amazingly low… I’ve been using a car battery charger to create the electrolyte but AA batteries for the plating of a stem.
mmm... but your frame will be, something like 50-100x higher surface area than a stem... so your current will be 100x higher too (or coating time 50-100x longer!)
I was thinking of using nickel tape (for creating battery packs) for the anode then it can be put around the outside of whatever container I can fashion…
I'm thinking that internal corners will be the hard parts so you'd maybe need to fashion the anode to sit inside the triangle etc?
It’s a valid point though, I might need to look up the electro potential between aluminium and nickel and remember some vaguely remembered science?
aluminium is more reactive than nickel - so it will be sacrificed in favour of the nickel, thats not great but once its alloy everything becomes a bit less clear and aluminium is odd because of its oxide coating...
poly
mmm… but your frame will be, something like 50-100x higher surface area than a stem… so your current will be 100x higher too (or coating time 50-100x longer!)
Yep but I'm doing mA and battery charger will deliver tens of A. (waiting on ebay for some extra croc clips as I dissolved the ones I had) then I can sensibly measure the current.
I'm also limiting the current through the internal resistance of the electrolyte, I switched from acetate/chloride to carbonate and finding a visual optimum based on bubbles. I had to make up more as I ended up with copper in when I dissolved the croc clips 😉
I'm also not rushed for time and I can move the current (no pun) anodes about a bit during that time.
… or at least for a one off you’d want to engineer the “bucket” to have as little dead space as possible.
I’m thinking that internal corners will be the hard parts so you’d maybe need to fashion the anode to sit inside the triangle etc?
Yeah I'm thinking EPDM "bucket" basically draped over a wooden frame shaped frame 2-3 cm bigger than the actual frame with the anode inside and outside.
I'm sure my mate had a nickel plated Mongoose in the 80's, it was cool as ****
Mugboo, quite possibly, I had a Mongoose 'Supergoose' in the early 80's that was nickel plated.
The finish was tough as old boots & that was a 4130 Cromoly steel. Used to clean up lovely.
Would love to see some pics of the bits you've done Stevxtc.
panzerjager
Would love to see some pics of the bits you’ve done Stevxtc.
Can email if you like as I can't work out how to do images on STW without posting on social media then copying.
Here's one, and old truvative husslefelt.
Stripped and logo removed on the surface grinder...then sanded and nickel plated.
The sanding and grinding was a bit quick as I just had it sat in the shed and thought I'd give iut a go.
Cheap Wake stem, stripped anodising and laser etching in sodium hydroxide and electroplated in NiCO3 electrolyte.
Ha! Interesting thread guys.👍
i was in the Roberts showroom in the mid 90’s he had a bunch of nickel plated frames. they looked superb. i love the texture of nickel compared to chrome.
he did say why he wasn’t offering it on customer frames, but i can’t remember his reasons.
i’ve just looked at your instagram. interesting results. please keep posting your work. i’d love a nickel coated bike
i love the texture of nickel compared to chrome.
This doesn't come across great in the photo's. I might need to get the real camera out.
The first stem was really old and battered to start off and enameled. Now I wish I'd spent a bit longer tidying it up first but initially it was an industrial look. I guess I can always have another go though.
The second stem was a fiver... and anodised stripping the anodising took a minute then I had to sand the laser etching off but the finish is nicer.
Both show the warm glow, taken "as-is" on the old iPhone and no Insta filters the 2nd one is just in shaded daylight on a cloudy day.
Must not buy, must not buy!
@stevextc Thanks, I was thinking more along the lines of the electroless process.
Its big advantage is even deposition, which for a frame is critical.
What's stopped me trying this before is that electroplating is simple enough from the knowing how to do it aspect, but there is a lot of skill in getting the full coverage, especially in the nooks and crannies of a frame.
Electroplating would need a lot more practice IMO.
Has anyone tried the electroless process at home?
Has anyone tried the electroless process at home?
I'm going to give it a go once I work out how to make sodium hypophosphite safely and cheaply at home.
Murrey ...Looks gorgeous 😉
buy the damned thing before I do!
@stevextc I read up on that. It sounds a pretty dicey brew. Be careful. 🙂
There were a bunch of nickel plated bmx bikes - mongoose, norco, redline, skyway, I think Haro did one. Always wanted one. Fair number still around and in good nick so it's possible to get a good finish on cromo.
The Light Blue do a frame in 'galvanised' electroplated tin/aluminium covered in clear coat on a reynolds steel frame bike. Not sure how that works with the dissimilar metals.
I read up on that. It sounds a pretty dicey brew. Be careful.
Yeah I might need to just bite the bullet and buy the sodium hypophosphite which bypasses some of the fun in doing it all from common(ish) household items but might be a lot safer.
You may have already seen this:
http://pmdchemicals.co.uk/blog/category/products/gmf-if-products/plating-processes/electroless-nickel/
Hadn't found that yet.... currently adds more confusion/options 😉
I wonder what the PTFE one looks like? Imagine a non-stick frame?
The non stick sounds perfect for an MTB/Gravel frame - or on a smaller scale ideal for derailleurs and cassettes used on them.
The environmental cost is probably nasty though.
How do you dispose of the chemicals once finished?
How do you dispose of the chemicals once finished?
With electroplating there is very little waste, unless you contaminate then you can keep using the electrolyte. I've currently got one jam jar's worth of contaminated Nickel acetate waste that I'll save till I go to the recycling centre.