Right in the market for a hardtail mtb frame. Previously owned a SantaCruz Highball carbon and loved it. I've been away from MTBs for a few years so I just wondered if there is anything else I should be looking at that is the same style of bike.
Has to be
carbon
29er
100mm forks
Laterally stiff in the bb area.
Is there anything new I should be looking at?
Budget?
All below 900g:
Trek Superfly SL
Scott Scale
Cannondale Flash
Heavier, but still light, and nice:
Spesh S-Works
Giant XTC
Cheap alternative:
Chinese carbon
Currently considering an XTR equipped Highball Carbon.
Circa 5k I would think.
Dirty harry?
Niner Air 9 Carbon?
Yeti ARCc worth a look.
Pivot LES would fit the bill nicely.
my Specialized Stumpjumper Expert Carbon 29'er hardtail frame is 1.18kg (I weighed it before rebuilding the bike)
you can pick a complete 2014 bike up around £2000 with the same frameset
F29er Triton cycles... http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/mountain-bikes-c1/29ers-c14/cannondale-f29-carbon-2-mountain-bike-2013-p1245
big saving and better spec than 2014 model - lefty fork is very nice indeed
Thanks for that I will have a browse at these now.
Niner does not appeal. I rode one last time round before buying the cruz and it was not as nice.
That niner air 9 RDO does look good. Though for the frame Stif seem to have changed the dollar sign to a pound and then ADDED another couple of hundred quid!
mrblobby - Member
That niner air 9 RDO does look good. Though for the frame Stif seem to have changed the dollar sign to a pound and then ADDED another couple of hundred quid!POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST
The Niner prices seem to have gone from just expensive to ridiculously expensive this year. It's put me right off getting an Air 9 Carbon 🙁
Er, Open O-1.0? I have one and it's great. Haven't weighed it yet... can't be bothered... but it's supposed to be a fraction over 9kg.
bollocks, no one buys an Open and doesn't weight it
Not bollocks... honest. Have weighed bikes before when I've either serviced or built them up. We have a young son and another on the way so bike time is strictly for riding (wherever possible). So when I say I can't be bothered, it's not entirely true. Anyway, it's light.
Er, Open O-1.0? I have one and it's great. Haven't weighed it yet... can't be bothered... but it's supposed to be a fraction over 9kg.
I'd expect lighter than that, very nice looking frames those Opens!
scott scale is a safe bet...prob not get much better.
Whyte 29 C Team? Slacker HA and very long TT. I'm thinking of one myself.
scott scale is a safe bet...prob not get much better.
Why not? Everything that's been recommended is a good bike.
because it probably got more XC race pedigree than any of the above.
I'd imagine most 29er XC race bikes will be good (all probably very similar in frame weights, geo, stifness etc...
make a list and search around for best deal / componants.
Bollocks. That's all.
Seftons analysis seems about right to me, not sure why its bollocks.
Whyte 29 C Team? Slacker HA and very long TT. I'm thinking of one myself.
Just about to start my Whyte 29-C build, according to the workshop scales the frame weighs 1.2kg
I have a KTM myroon. It's very very nice to ride.
[url= http://www.ktm-bikes.at/bikes/hardtail.html?action=bike_details&bike_id=114&cHash=30232a4c6615179b95d729b751304867 ]http://www.ktm-bikes.at/bikes/hardtail.html?action=bike_details&bike_id=114&cHash=30232a4c6615179b95d729b751304867[/url]
because it probably got more XC race pedigree than any of the above.
Except for the Trek....obviously 😉
....happy now
Except for the Trek....obviously....happy now
Haha, not what I was getting at at all. They're all excellent bikes, don't think you can say any one is 'the best'. The 29er Scale doesn't have anything like the race pedigree of the 650b one anyway 😉
[url= http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/article/pro-bike-jared-graves-29er-xc-race-bike-39587/ ]Yeti ARCc[/url]
Loving mine and seems rather fast and easy to ride
I bought a 2014 Trek Superfly 9.6, then sold the wheels and groupset. Moved my XT single ring setup across and bought some carbon wheels.
Really impressed with it so far. Not as light as a Superfly SL, but I think spending the saving on the wheels was a good move.
I don't know the in's and out's of the geometry, but I have no problem lifting the front end and it feels very stable on the downs.
I know it's a bit of a cliché, but I have been riding and racing a Trek top fuel for the last 4 years and was really surprised how easy the transition was to the Superfly hardtail.
That's what I did/thought ^^
Are you me?
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Separated at birth 🙂
When I was looking for a bike that fits the OPs description I looked at
Cannondale F-29, Scott Scale, GT Zaskar...
I left the shop with a Rocky Mountain Vertex...
You're going to have to spend time riding them to see which works, and look at spec, and not get hung up on looks... the Vertex look lovely, handles amazingly and is more manouverable than my old 26" Zaskar.
I'm not you, I'm me
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That f29 that Sefton linked is amazing value! I payed more than that for the carbon3.
Absolutely love the bike.
That f29 that Sefton linked is amazing value! I payed more than that for the carbon3.
Absolutely love the bike.
Yep I got one in Dec (and it was 3.5k at a lot of other retailers)
had to peel off the crappy stans no tube graphics off the wheels though.
all carbon, bars, crank, post, 0X (might put 0X gripshift on)
the fork is soooo good too
was surprised with Avid brakes (never had Avid before)..they are great so far.
not been raced yet though.
also just to put a spanner in the works - how about a budget frame (ebay - dirty harry) and spend big on wheels/fork etc?
Could do a lot worse - you're not going to get any of the 900g frames without blowing a good chunk of the budget, but you'll save more weight and probably have nicer bits by building on a cheap frame.
I guess it depends on whether the OP wants boutiquey brands for his £5k. Reckon some light Chinese carbon wheels, x11 group, a raid on the xcracer store, and maybe a Trek or a Scott frame would be well under 5k and weight weenie enough for most.
Would be easy to blow that budget on some Enve wheels, or a Santa Cruz or Niner frame, and have to put the weight back on with cheaper components.
Reckon some light Chinese carbon wheels, x11 group, a raid on the xcracer store, and maybe a Trek or a Scott frame would be well under 5k and weight weenie enough for most.
That's my Superfly, and it's 19.2lbs all in, so not too bad. The basic frame is £1000, they don't sell the SL variant aftermarket strangely.
As the OP was thinking of a Highball though I suspect Trek/China may not cut it!
Well I have narrowed it down.
Highball still in the mix with the addition of the Yeti. I'd spent so long away from MTBs i had not realised they offered a carbon 29er.
Thanks for all the input.
Both are a lot of cash to drop on a frame when there are arguably better, lighter, cheaper frames out there... but that Yeti is lovely 🙂 That build that Graves rode looks doable for £5k other than the prototype wheels. Photos when done please!
Both are a lot of cash to drop on a frame when there are arguably better, lighter, cheaper frames out there... but that Yeti is lovely
Lovely... but £1.6-1.8K lovely??? 😯
Almost harder to try and buy a frame with that money in some ways! At that price Yeti or SC wouldn't exactly cut it for me... not sure what I would go for but those pennies open up a hell of a lot of options!
Perfect example of why people are attracted to boutique frames innit - just because of the name. Nothing wrong with that, but you'll get lighter/stiffer/stronger (as is your want) for less money if you're less fussed about what it says on the down tube! Particularly on something like a carbon hardtail!
Goes back to the age old STW discussion of are Yeti/ SC still considered boutique? As you say though Nick, nothing wrong with paying the money because you like the name, but if I had that money I'd probably want a "better" name.
No idea what a "better" name on the downtube is though! I guess a "better" name would mean something a little less common as there aren't many truely boutique CF MTB frame builders out there
Orbea Alma for something a bit different?
Look 986 for something quirky?
BMC TE01 for pure gorgeousness?
Colnago C29 for no sensible reason at all
Storck Rebel beacuse you are brave enough to try your luck with Poshbikes service?
Intense Hard Eddie because it looks alright
Easy to criticise SC and Yeti as not really "boutique" enough to justify that money (sorry!) but I wouldn't know what to go for in that price bracket and feel I hadn't wasted money 😕 I do rather like BMC frames lately though 😀 Despite being sold by Evans 😳
Storck Rebel beacuse you are brave enough to try your luck with Poshbikes service?
😆
I must say [url= http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/04/03/niner-drops-air-9-rdo-carbon-frame-retail-prices/ ]this[/url] article on Niner caught my eye yesterday, the green is lovely, but as said on the last page the UK pricing is a joke, and they don't float the OP's boat.
Easy to criticise SC and Yeti as not really "boutique" enough to justify that money (sorry!) but I wouldn't know what to go for in that price bracket and feel I hadn't wasted money
Agreed. I'd want something in that sub-900g bracket - Open, Trek, Cannondale, Scott. But AFAIK apart from the Open you'd have to get a complete bike and sell the bits to get a frame even within that price bracket. BMC a bit quirky for my liking.
Agreed. I'd want something in that sub-900g bracket - Open, Trek, Cannondale, Scott. But AFAIK apart from the Open you'd have to get a complete bike and sell the bits to get a frame even within that price bracket. BMC a bit quirky for my liking.
If I were worried about the name then SC/ Yeti/ Trek/ Cannondale/ Scott/ Spesh carry about as much kudos for me as a well made Chinese frame which can easily be £300-400 and ~1100g 😀
Open is the only really vaguely "boutique" and decent overall and different CF 29er MTB frame for the money that springs to mind
Highball still in the mix with the addition of the Yeti. I'd spent so long away from MTBs i had not realised they offered a carbon 29er.
Any more thoughts on the frame choice bigman? Of the two the Yeti looks nicer and is the name I'd rather be seen riding 😀 This is following someone genuinely interested in my bike because he thought it was a Saracen and had heard good things about them and partially from non stop heckling from other riders during races along the lines of "another SC... are they giving them away" 😀 Have you considered Open?
Look I considered actually but they don't have a 29er available at present and i want it this year.
Colnago is something else that I did consider and the thing that put me off is the wait on a frame. 16- 20 weeks which would mean the wrong side of summer.
I've owned a Highball C and loved it but I do have a soft spot for Yeti's. They may be less boutique than they were 20 years ago but hey ho all I care about is the ride.
might be wrong here but the Yeti / SC / Niner brands seem very popular with trail riders and people on here. Dont seem as popular in XC.
Ditto - the Alma looks good...Also might get the BMC in a good sale at Evans.
The Yeti does look nice and I imagine will retain its value well if you came to sell it one day.
Before racing I was never interested in brands like Scott, Giant etc...more concerned with the likes of Turner, Yeti, Orange etc...a few years on and I struggle to see past the likes of Scott (for both MTB and Road)...don't pay attention to tail/all mountain bikes any more.
but I understand you need to go for what makes you tick 'feel good'
but hey ho all I care about is the ride.
Genuine question then, why are you ruling out all the more 'obvious' frames from mainstream manufacturers?
all I care about is the ride
budget frame and BIG spec wheels & fork it is then! 😉
Because some mainstream brands I cannot obtain at good prices.
I do like the look of Scotts as well as Giants but the brands I have chosen wok out better value.
If the Canyon Ulitmate is anything like there top end road bike frames (which I beleive they are the same carbon etc) they will be stiff as hell.
also well speced for the money (you'll probably not get better unless you find something in the sales)
https://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=3179
IMO..get hung up on frames,forks,wheels,tyres,riding position
and get something simple and reliable for everything else
Shimano drivetrain/brakes/shifters
pay some attention to posts,bars (good weight saving can be had here)
I'll see your well specced Canyon Ultimate, and raise you an even better, and significantly cheaper [url= http://www.radon-bikes.de/xist4c/web/Black-Sin-29-10-0-SL_id_25887_.htm ]Radon Black Sin[/url]
I'd still try a 29C just because it's utterly ace.
It convinced me carbon rims may well be worth the money too, should squeak into your budget.
Dan - do you race for Cube?
Pivot Les..
Torsionally super-stiff, light and really sorted handling, our team has been using them for a full year now, for everything from short course XC, smashing down bike park wales runs to winning the tour divide.
jono
...and Chinese frames (that seem to be doing/ done alright under some of the faster guys in the UK).
might be wrong here but the Yeti / SC / Niner brands seem very popular with trail riders and people on here. Dont seem as popular in XC.
Niner are definitely popular in XCO/ XCM but are too expensive/ require the use of the warranty too frequently for them to be too widespread anywhere. Yeti and SC aren't too popular in XCO/ XCM at the moment since moving away from this type of riding when dropping the like of the Blur XC-C and ASR-SL for more profitable and popular trail and enduro bikes. The 29er hardtails are like the token XC gesture thrown in the range for people who want to buy their brand and ride XC... at least that is my cynical take.
Pivot LES (as suggested already by someone who knows a thing or two about riding fast) is far more interesting and another I'd give serious consideration
Devinci Wooky is another nice looking frame to consider and not very common here in the UK
Scapin might be another to consider
Theres also a Spanish company on the tip of my tongue who make a 1600g full sus frame that might be worth a look although I've forgotten the brand name!
sefton- nothing to do with either of the 2 Dan W's associated with Cube UK though a nice coincidence 😀
Theres also a Spanish company on the tip of my tongue who make a 1600g full sus frame that might be worth a look although I've forgotten the brand name!
MSC?
Snaptastic! I actually saw a Koncept Karbon at the NPS the other day, and thought to myself "crikey, one that didn't break". Their hardtail wasn't that light either, just the FS bikes.
Edit: [url= http://www.mscbikes.com/index.php?sec=bikes&subsec=bike&modelo=29ER+CARBON#.Uz6nDz-wLvY ]their[/url] hardtail is blatantly just an open mould frame, and not light.
I'd still try a 29C just because it's utterly ace.
Love mine... Ponied up for the CS after testing convinced me carbon wheels are well worth the investment...
BH bikes..are they spanish?
I was thinking of MSC. I knew the full sussers were light but slightly prone to cracking and wondered of there might be a decent hardtail in the line up. Sadly, nothing special and heavy as you say.
BH are also Spanish but look to be open mould frames too. I believe they are the Spanish equivalent of Boardman/ Planet-X in Spain although I may be mistaken. Radon seem the same in Germany but you can't argue with the value
I'd be very tempted by that Black Sin, some spare cash too for some proper weenie bits too.
why not a 100mm full sus frame? or is a hardtail "that" much faster?
If I was spending that much on a frame it wouldn't be made of plastic.
Got to be something like a Moots, Seven etc.
GB
Yeah but by your own admission GB, you're special 😉
Any decisions made BIGMAN?
Budget?All below 900g:
Trek Superfly SL
Have you weighed yours? I had a weigh of a project one one and it was comfortably above 1kg. Looked fantastic though and they ride very well, much better than the FS variant! Guess it was all that bright yellow paint!
For what it's worth OP, I've ridden the following:
Giant XTC (both wheelsizes)
Highball
Stumpjumper
Superfly
Flash 29
Superfly and Stumpjumper were definitely most impressive. The highball was a bit meh, most sluggish but very stable. Really disappointed by the 29er XTC, the 27.5 however was good. The Flash was quite good - would never have one personally because you can't run less than a 90mm stem, new lefty is better.
Have you weighed yours? I had a weigh of a project one one and it was comfortably above 1kg. Looked fantastic though and they ride very well, much better than the FS variant! Guess it was all that bright yellow paint!
Mine's not an SL, and certainly isn't light! 1311g IIRC with headset/seatclamp/armour etc.
The 9.9s I thought were all guaranteed to be under 900g, obviously not!
Thanks for all the input.
I actually ordered a Yeti Arc Carbon in the end.
Now starting the fun game of assembling parts!
The 9.9s I thought were all guaranteed to be under 900g, obviously not!
I think it was 1060g for just the frame. Project one frames are heavier than the standard ones, generally. Doesn't really matter though, good bikes!
Now starting the fun game of assembling parts!
What's going on it?
Not 100% decided as of yet. I need to pop into the shop Friday and sort.
Kings on Stans ZTR rims looking likely with Rocket Rons.
What would make a decent 120mm travel fork? I did consider a SID or are Fox still the way to go.
Re groupset I was looking at Sram.
SID RLT for my money I reckon, IMO the World Cup isn't really worth it - the Xloc damper weighs more, plus the weight of the expander for the carbon steerer and there's next to no weight in it. Unless you really love using your lockout.
Gotta be carbon rims shirley? XD body for King hubs available now at least.
120mm fork on a racing orientated XC 29er?
Njee20 - what kind of things are available?
Lots available. Depends on budget. Good Chinese carbon wheelset can be had for around 500 quid (I think njee20 has some.) Or you could go the Enve route for example and spend a lot more.
I will end up with 2 sets of wheels so the proposed set are for the initial build.
Enve I am not a huge fan of.