Good call...
Every time this pops back up to the top I expect to open it to see he’s bought a smuggler 😜
Sorry to disappoint you ssimon 🙂 I’m still not sure if this was the right choice, but it should be fun finding out.
Hi just to add my bit to the mix!! Had a demo day with cotic a few weeks ago up at Cannock chase. We booked the new flare max and the older rocketmax, both in 29er form, and in plus version of the rocketmax.
Currently ride a bronson, which I've loved really changed my level of riding and confidence.
We sessioned upper and lower cliffs on the bikes in both med and large for the entire day which was ace, and made comparing the bikes reasonably easy.
To cut a long story short, I'm picking up my new flare max on Thursday. Climbed very very well, both I and my mate (who I took as a second opinion in case I was biased towards wanting a new bike!) commented on how easily it pedalled up the switchbacks. OK, so it's not the world's worst climbs, but they're enough to decide if a bike is going to be painful on climbs, and the flare max excelled.
On the descents it really came up trumps though. So so fast and confidence inspiring. Hit jumps harder than I ever have before and railed the corners far faster than on my bronson. Kept up with my mate on the second run which frankly never happens!
The bit that made my mind up though was just sheer fun - the bike constantly wanted to go faster, but felt eager and fun and poppy even at slower speeds. In comparison, the rocket (and indeed my mate's hightower I test rode recently) both needed to be ridden at absolute warp speed to get anything out of them, which I'm just not capable of !
Cotic themselves have been great throughout, and the demo setup is a right winner - honestly don't know why more places don't do it!
Phew, that's a relief, I thought you were going to hate it 🙂
I also tried a new flare max and old style rocket max at the weekend at cotic’s Spring demo day. Me and a mate took turns. The flare was 29 and the rocket was plus. Both large. We both loved the flaremax. So confidence inspiring on the fast rocky descents. I was 10% faster than the day before on my current bike (old Skool 26er- blur 4x) yet felt easier and more in control. The geometry seems spot on. Hard to tell the 2 Bikes apart in the rowdy downs, but the RocketMAX with a 160 fork felt a bit flipfloppy at low speed. I’m thinking that the new longer version of the rocket max will be worth the wait.
I don't think you'll be too disappointed, had to same kind of shortlist myself, went with smuggler but would have been happy with a cotic or an orange.
When you hoping to have it built?
Build is coming together nicely. Just need the folk at Ukbyk to pull their fingers out and deliver the oneup dropper that they said was in stock a week ago 🙁
Very very nice. Any idea of how much it weighs (without dropper!?)
Am trying to stave off the n+1 urge at the moment. But I think I am losing.
I've not weighed it yet, but it wont be light. Just pulling the frame out of the box you can tell that it's a solid lump. I had a similar feeling when I pulled my (steel) Surly ICT out of its box too and that ended up at 35lb (fully rigid). It's not just steel bikes of course, the Aluminium Smuggler I had was also pretty hefty. I guess I just like beefy bikes.
I will weigh it and report back, but I tend to think that we focus too much on weight. Maybe just because it is so easy to measure. A lot of my climbing PRs were set on that 35lb steel fatbike. Moving the same wheels (and most of the same components) on to a carbon frame saved a fair few pounds, but I've still yet to match those times on the lighter bike. Not sure why (there is a thread about it somewhere) but it makes me think that weight is a lot less important than I used to think it was. This certainly isn't a bike for the weight conscious though, which might save you a few quid 🙂
@ssimon I'm sure you'll love the Smuggler. Obviously I couldn't get one this time as I've done that 🙂 It was a great bike though and I'm sure the newer ones have improved things even more. Will the FlareMax be better ? Not a chance, but it should be a little different and different is fun.
Looks awesome Rover. A mate of mine got a Flare max last year and loves it and I just picked up a Rocket Max frame two weeks ago and built it up last week. Only done one test ride on it so far but love it already. No lightweight, my mates flare is lighter, but came from a heavy bike so not a problem and it carries the weight well. Pictured here with an old front wheel on as I was waiting for a new front tyre that was also showing in stock when I ordered it, but turned out it wasn't!!! seems to be a more common thing these days. We're hitting Scotland this weekend so it will be getting a good introduction, especially looking at the weather forecast!
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Edit: I came from a Transition Covert 29 which was no lightweight either (transitions are a bit lardy even the carbon ones) and that weighed in at around 32 or 33lbs and this feels similar....maybe a tad lighter, but only a good poo's worth if that. The importance placed on bike weight is massively overstated I think. The difference between a 29lb bike (i.e. what is considered as a light long travel 29er bike) and a 33lb bike is not going to make a jot of difference. I don't notice the difference between 1ltr of water in my camelback when on a short ride and 3ltrs of water when doing a longer ride which is about the same difference. It's a tiny percentage of overall bike plus rider weight. But this is one of those arguments that will rage on forever.
That looks really well.
My Smuggler is an old one that was sensible money on eBay then I got a £75 off voucher from a PSA on here, that’s what swung me really as £500 was easier to justify when I’d spent the last few years telling myself that a hardtail was all I needed.
Did a cheap build with a 130mm revelation, some free wheels off a mates meta 29 that needed a free hub but fixed them for a £3 bearing, and all the bits off my charge cooker 1x10 SRAM and elixrs. As always though the first upgrade was a stealth reverb at £140, then I spotted a cheap rear crossmax xl on Wiggles ebay shop and a not quite so cheap front locally on Facebook, then after 4rides I realized the fork was too short and either to stiff or too saggy and a Pike was the only answer, and of course the Crossmax is XD so it’s time to go 1x11............
As you say the smuggler isn’t light but limbs so well for. 32+ lb bike.
will weigh it and report back, but I tend to think that we focus too much on weight. Maybe just because it is so easy to measure. A lot of my climbing PRs were set on that 35lb steel fatbike.
True...it is only one factor. But imagine if that same fat bike weighed 5lbs less?
I am in agreement to a degree. I've got a few PRs on the way up on my chubby Solaris. The grip and seating position on the way up make it a great climber.
I also spent the afternoon on a new Flaremax a few weeks ago. It's a hell of a bike and felt spritely enough on the way up - a complete riot on the way down. I love the look and feel of it.
My only reservation - To get to and from the trails where I am, I have to do a chunk of road and some XC stuff. I am not expecting hardtailesque ground coverage but do want a very decent capability in that respect. The extra effort involved in hauling my current mid travel 29er to the trail head means that very often I just opt for the easier ride instead.
so for me - weight is a factor in how often I would pull the bike out of the shed.
But imagine if that same fat bike weighed 5lbs less?
I don't need to imagine, I tried it and it got worse !
"I swapped my steel fatbike (ICT) for a carbon fibre one (Dude) last summer. I’m running the same wheels/tyres on the new bike and the seat angle is steeper. It’s also almost 5lb lighter, yet I’m consistently 5-10% slower up climbs and I can’t understand why."
OK, worse is putting it a bit strong. It's not all bad news. I certainly appreciate the lighter bike when I have to carry it, but I was surprised to find that it wasn't "clearly better" just because it was lighter.
I'm not trying to argue that weight doesn't matter through. Clearly lifting a heavier weight to the same height requires more work and some people just like the feel of a lighter bike. But it's not as simple as lighter = better.
Would have to agree, climbing is about so much more than weight, traction, position, stiffness, balance, comfort, feedback etc all have an impact. Even how a bike makes you feel will have an impact on the effort you put in and the way you approach and attack a climb.
Even how a bike makes you feel will have an impact on the effort you put in and the way you approach and attack a climb.
Yes, I suspect this makes a huge difference. At least to me. I thought my ICT with it's blue steel frame and comedy tyres looked great. The Dude is a better bike, but with its dull green finish and big box section tubes I'm struggling to really gel with it. It's the difference between admiring or respecting something and loving it. The latter rarely makes sense.
It's why I spend time on pointless things like changing wheel and fork stickers and why I'm still contemplating trimming the front of that mudguard a bit, even though it would make it a worse mudguard. I know it's stupid and I admire those riders for whom a bike is just a tool. They are all far better riders than I'll ever be, but it's all just a bit of fun.
I love my Hightower CS 29er - excels going down so I think maybe the bike you were on needed better setup for your weight. I got it with a massive discount as it was last of the 2017 bikes.
Had I not gone for the Hightower I'd have paid a bit more to get a Jeffsy or FlareMax. Probably the Jeffsy,
Just read the rest of the thread! Nice choice. Enjoy.
