Call me fickle, but after thinning out the bike collection I really missed the hardtail.
Having ridden Sevens for many, many years I decided to go for a bit of a change. A bit more compact and steeper geometry than I was used to, but such a fantastic ride. Feels much 'lighter'. It is actually only slightly lighter than my old Seven, but feels more 'zingy' whilst managing to be stiff through the BB.
Welding is nicer than the Seven, ride is nicer than the Seven, weight is lower than the Seven. I guess the only downside is the finish. The Seven brushed finish just buffs up with a Scotchbrite pad, but the Independent Fabrication finish is a bit more difficult.
New XTR is (in my opinion at least) nicer than the XX I had on the Seven. Feels more robust, but the polished finish of the XTR looks a bit cheap. Is is more of a coating than a genuine polish. Still, works beautifully, and only time will tell on the finish.
15mm through axel at the front and Chris King Funbolts at the rear are noticeably stiffer than standard QRs that I have ridden before. As for the rest of the kit, you can't really go far wrong with XTR, Chris King (hubs, BB and headset), Thomson, Easton and Stan's Alpine.
After years using black Chris King, I am still not sure about the green, but it kind of matches the IF.
A very happy convert to the IF camp!
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Nice, very nice! what sort of weight is it?
Yeah, that's very pleasant on the eye - NICE.
Was it custom sizing?
The mind boggles at what the build cost must have been.
Not exactly sure as I haven't weighed it, but hovering just under 20lbs I would say. For a big bloke's bike (I am 6ft 2), it's about as light as I would feel confident with.
They are all 'custom sizing' these days. IF no longer do stock sizes, but I doubt if I was much different from what would have been a standard 19 inch'ish bike.
Very nice, I'd be scared to ride that in case I crashed it (which I would)
Fortunately the bars and levers clear the top tube and the fork stanchion adjusters clear the down tube, so if/when I crash it shouldn't hurt (the bike) too much. I do like nice bikes, but I also like to ride 'em, so we'll see!
Blue & Green doesnt work. But who cares, surely its about how it rides.
I like that a lot although I agree with your reservations on the green Chris King.
It rides fantastically. Mind you, it would be nice to have something that rides [u]and[/u] looks good. Agreed on the blue and green, but unfortunately you don't have much choice about the fork accents.
That does look nice.
Head angle seems quite steep though?
Not sure i'd have gone for the green bits, but that's all a personal thing, isn't it? Reckon I'd have gone for bright red.
That I like. Did you keep the seven 29er?
Independent do build quite a steep bike, and I went with their recommendations on geometry. It has super quick steering, but on steep rocky descents, it might be a bit nervous. It has 100mm forks, but I guess I could put something slightly longer on the slacken it a bit.
The green kit is growing on me. I just fancied something different to black.
Tang - Seven 29er went as part of the clearout. Down to 2 Pegoretti road bikes, 1 Seven road bike, 1 Seven crosser and this. Still have a bit of choice of nice wheels left, but not quite as much as before.
Can I have the XTR groupset when you sell? 😉
Nice bike! Does look steep, but they're the experts. I love my IF Ti (though mine came to me 2nd hand with a repair, so nowhere near full price!) Really springy and light feeling bike, beautiful to ride. Oh, and silver and Ti is where it's at 8)
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1st dibs to you, but having tried XX I am not sure it will be any time soon!
BTW - nice stem that!
but on steep rocky descents
That's not really it's intended purpose though, is it?
Looks nice, only you know if it's ~4K's worth of nice 🙂
Quite right. It isn't a DH bike, but it will have to cope with a bit of variety.
Worth every penny to me.
Nice, but I'm not surprised the shifters/brakes clear the TT with that many spacers under the stem 😆
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but are they silver screws used to attach the slightly dodgy looking glass/brass door knobs? 😯
BTW - nice stem that!
Ha ha, Wondered if you might recognise it 🙂
Definite screw fail, you spotted right Steve. Rented house. Moving in 3 weeks to one we have just bought. Managed to get this expense passed just in time before the move! Need to keep my pennies now for really sexy things like carpets, blinds and sofas.
30mm of spacers at the moment. Might get shortened as I adjust to it, but you can always trim the steerer. A bit expensive to add to it though!
Hi, nice but what are the angles on that, and as TLH's comment on blue and green not working I beg to differ 🙂
Actually the angle of the photo does make the headtube look steeper than it is. It is steep, but not excessively so. I built it more for marathon/XC than anything else.
Nice Fat Chance. Now that really takes blue and green to a whole different level!
Very nice. Its like my Ti456 but with a fur coat and silk knickers.
Looks nice, only you know if it's ~4K's worth of nice
Frame or full build??
It is rather lovely, but those green King hubs have to go. I'll hide them on my bike for you as a favour? 😉
Frame or full build??
It's around £2700 for the frame only, depending on options etc... did you order through Mosquito Sola?
Thanks for the offer brassneck, I'll bear it in mind! The green is definitely a grower.
As with all of my bikes, I go for the frame and build them myself. That's half the fun, and I can take my time with some of the smaller details that a bike shop might not in the build such as rubber donuts on all of the outers to keep them quiet and stop frame rub. Takes ages, but the devil is in the detail.
Also, if you really shop around, going for the bespoke approach isn't so expensive. Over the years I have built up a full collection of tools which helps with the build rather than needing to nip to the shop for help.
I got the frame in the US. Nothing against Mosquito (I have bought 2 Pegorettis from them). All of the Chris King came from Aspire and the rest came from Merlin. Had the wheels built by Harry Rowland. I think he is unbeatable. Never had a problem with any of the wheels he has built for me either directly, or purchased through Poshbikes (he does all of their building). I can true wheels, but building from scratch is beyond me!
It's around £2700 for the frame only, depending on options etc
<Wonders if that is within 40th Present Spending range>
Looks just about perfect to me, custom too, doesn't seem too bad at all - off the peg carbon sussers aren't too far off that these days, for higher end brands. Luckily I'm slap in the middle of average (medium) so custom isn't really a need for me.
Go on, treat yourself, or even better get somebody to treat you for your birthday!
Brassneck can I come and live at your house for 24 hours? ... I'm 40 in the morning so you never know 😉
looks like youve already crashed it, head-on into something solid.
head angle is all kinds of wrong IMO :p
Looks very nice!
Why all the spacers and a negative rise stem? Seems a bit odd, especially on a custom.
Dave
I am bit old school. Started MTBing in the late 80's and haven't really moved with the times! Have always preferred the look of a 90 degree stem (it isn't negative rise). Regarding the spacers, I will probably drop a few, but didn't want to cut the steerer too short at first. Anyway, in proportion to the bike, the spacers aren't so long. Everything is bigger on a big bike.
I really like Thomson stems, and the only other choice is a 10 degree stem, which would be too upright for my liking, but maybe another option.
Regarding the head angle, as I said, the photo doesn't do it justice. It really isn't especially steep.
Splendid. 🙂
lovely, lovely, lovely 🙂
if I was getting a custom frame it would be an Independent Fabrication, but maybe steel
is that your name on the top tube?
I bought an IF a few years ago and really didn't get on with it. Haha! Preferred my On-One...ended up selling it about 3 months later.
My rigid IF ti singlespeed comes in at 20lb so yours must be a couple of pounde heavier me think.Nice bike though and im liking the green.Can i ask which shop you used in the usa and of your experiences of doing this as i may try it for my next IF.Thanks.
Nice. *Two* Pegos? Got any links to pics of them? I got a marcelo frame from Mosquito a couple of years back.
Lovely.The hubs have been laced wrong according to King,though.
The wheels look correctly laced in terms of supporting braking / pedalling forces, and also to stop the chain jamming in between the spokes and the cassette if it ever drops back there. I don't know why King would recommend any other way?
Very pretty, and a classic build. My guess, based on my very similarly specced Soda is that it will weigh a touch over 22lbs, but as you say, it's a strong, big bloke's build, and any lighter would have repercussions. Love it.
Nice bikes fellas!
If anyone reading this has a pair of suspension corrected IF rigid forks to dispose of email please. 🙂
Its like my Ti456 but with a fur coat and silk knickers.
It's like my ti456 [i]but three and a half times more expensive[/i]
Fixed that for you.
It is lovely, not even remotely what I would ever buy but then it's not my bike. The only thing I would 'chuckle' at are the fun bolts on your CK rear hub. Like you're ever going to need the extra security 😀
But they do look cleaner. Pain in the ass to get the wheel out though.
I'll try to weigh it properly at the weekend. Certainly lighter than my Seven and that was 21.something lbs.
Harry Rowland knows his stuff, but you are right about the deviation from King's recommendations. I'll have a word and let you know.
The price thing is always going to be a difficult one to answer objectively as On One are fantastic value for money. Honestly, there is a certain amount of rarity and 'boutiqueness' about the whole experience which partly justifies the price. IF are undoubtedly nicer built, nicer finished, nicer welded and offer customisation and a certain brand equity, but probably not three and a half times better at any of those things. That's the point at which it all gets very subjective and difficult to justify the price difference.
The funbolts are a piece of cake to change the wheel. About 2 seconds longer than a QR, but I don't do anything where that kind of time would matter. They do also look cleaner, they are lighter and cheaper than a QR. Many years ago I had a set of Control Tech allen key QRs which were basically the same principle.
Glad you like it!
Bob - I have a Pegoretti Responsorium (Columbus XCR stainless) and a Duende (Columbus Spirit). The Duende is currently in month 4 of what was promised to be a 4 week respray after changing the carbon fork for one of Dario's steel forks. Dario can't be rushed, but his paint is worth the wait. I'll post when it arrives which should be next week. At the risk of this turning into a different thread (and I know some people think there are too many road bike threads on here) I got a grainy photo of the work in progress a few weeks back, but the forks hadn't been done, or the red accents and logos applied. It is a pearl white 'Guantanamo' finish. Hand applied barbed wire over a pearl white base. The Responsorium is a 'Ciavete' (i.e. Dario goes a but mad with a paint brush and you get whatever turns out!).
As you can see, even a small volume manufacturer has to work in batches! OK, so there are only 2 of them (mine is nearest the camera), but both are subtly different. The other one is flat white, but I wanted the pearl white.
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The price thing is always going to be a difficult one to answer objectively as On One are fantastic value for money. Honestly, there is a certain amount of rarity and 'boutiqueness' about the whole experience which partly justifies the price. IF are undoubtedly nicer built, nicer finished, nicer welded and offer customisation and a certain brand equity, but probably not three and a half times better at any of those things. That's the point at which it all gets very subjective and difficult to justify the price difference
It's a fair point that probably most half decent hardtail frames are difficult to tell apart on a blind test, and tyres/pressures probably make more difference, but it's missing the point. That IF is just a cracking example of the framebuilders art, it's something I could never reproduce myself, and it would make as happy to look at as ride. I'd also almost certainly keep it for the rest of my life, so getting 20 years or so more hard use makes it look not so bad value. Even then I could probably hand it down to my kids and it'd still be a cracking bike.
I think my only caveat would be that mtb tech seems to change quicker than road (brake mounts, BBs etc) so for a 'lifetime' frame I'm actually considering a road bike rather than mtb. But that IF has made me wobble. Again.
Uh oh... my Marcelo's a bit tatty (Baci paint) after a couple of crashes, car travel and a bit of chainsuck. Seed planted 🙂
I won't be so crass as to ask how much it's costing you, but I guess Dario's not the most economical of options. I saw Roger's Responsorium in the 'f*** you' paintjob - looked like the end result of feeding a child too many fizzy sweets. But in a good way. Maybe at the end of the season I'll send it off.
Anyway, I digress... good luck with the paint!
Some of the things that may 'date' a frame for life:
1) Tapered headtube - makes sense in many respects, but looks fugly in titanium and I can't feel the difference. The bolt through forks make more of a difference and are easy to change. The tapered headtube on some bikes is to provide a larger contact area for the adjoining tubes rather than make the forks stiffer necessarily, but there is no need to make titanium tubing any larger in diameter than it is.
2) BB30 - Definitely has its advantages, but I can't flex the bb on this so don't feel the need.
3) Integrated headset - Don't see the point at all. Don't need a low stack height and the King will probably outlive me!
4) Post Mount rear caliper - Definitely has its advantages, but an adapter does the trick.
I am sure there will changes over the years to come that nobody has yet to think of that will date it, but right now I am just enjoying riding it more than worrying about future obsolescence.
For sure, 5 year old FS designs look out of date now, but even 1 inch headtube late 1980's hardtails share quite a bit in common with today's breed. What dates them is rim braking (but disc brakes are here to stay), geometry (but suspension travel for an XC hardtail has settled at 100mm'ish) and headtube size (which may yet date the standard 1, 1/8 size on this one). Otherwise, a well made hardtail has a certain classic appeal.
Anyway, who am I kidding? I'll have changed it well before it gets out of date, even if I have justified the expense as a bike for life!
walleater,the instruction manual that comes with the hub explains why they should be laced a certain way.
Indeed. I'll let you know Harry's answer.
To be fair, I sent the hubs to him without the instruction manual, so he built them the way he has built disc wheels for years rather than intentionally ignoring the instructions. I didn't think that there would be anything specific about the hubs. Maybe there is something specific about the King hubs, but it will be interesting to see his response.
Wheel building is quite an art, and the finer details of elbows in/out and crossing overlap are a subtle but important mystery to me!
Yep the wheels have been built the way I would normally, but for King hubs the lacing on the front wheel leading spoke should be heads out on the disk side. Don't think it meantions that for the rear hub though
Just looked again to make sure i hadnt jumped the gun yesterday. Nope, the blue and green doesnt work. Sorry. Swap them out for black asap
That's one lovely bike.
Anytime you're selling some (practically brand spanking) 2nd hand forks again, let me know! The Fox Float Xs I bought off you are still going well. Took a bit of dialling in, but they're great on my steel Ht.
Glad to hear it! After a couple of years' off, Fox have come back to the Terra Logic thing this year again. What goes around comes around!
I am sticking with the green. Largely for financial reasons, but also I kind of like it!
If i had the choice,i would have built them like this too! King want it their way though.Ive done it the opposite to what King have said in the past but never rectified the mistake for obvious reasons.Their way is deffo the way i would lace a king hub now though.. as if anything went pear shaped,you wont have the lacing issue haunting you in the future over something about the hub that might crop up. (maybe even something that has naff all to do with the lacing but also something they might use to get out of a warranty claim)
It would be good to hear what King has been doing warranty-wise Re: internal problems/spoke lacing.
Seriously though, this looks like my dream hardtail! I would love this to not only ride,but to look at.for hours!
I honestly can't see it making such a huge difference. The grain of the aluminium can't be that different from the outside to the inside of the flange, and I really don't see how the force can be so different elbows in vs out, but as i mentioned earlier I don't fully understand the subtleties of wheel building.
At the same time, King must be so specific for good reason, although I can't see why they feel the need when nobody else does, and the stresses and loads are the same for every wheel.
At the same time, Harry knows his stuff, and I can only assume that he built them this way intentionally.
Oh, I don't know! Think I'l just ride 'em and see!
Anybody else running King at the front with this way of building vs the King recommendation (or maybe you are all dead after a horrific front wheel collapse?!).
Wheel response from Harry:
The leading spoke is the one that takes the strain and this is better on the outside. I do what Shimano recommend as it makes sense to me. You get driving and braking on the rear and braking only on the front.
The leading spoke is obviously orientated in a different direction (as per Harry's build on the photos) depending on whether it is on the drive or braking side at the rear, and at the front both sides are built for braking optimisation. A contrary argument to King, but equally convincing.
King make hubs, Harry builds wheels. I am prepared to trust the guy who has built TDF, World Cup and Olympic wheels!
I would be interested to understand what way round anybody else has them....
Theres a mixture out there.I have done shimano-style but also king-style too.Ive seen mostly shimano style elsewhere to be honest.
From King..
"The front ISO should be laced 3-or-more-cross with the rotor (left) side pulling spokes (relative to braking direction) heads out/elbows in (when laced 3-cross). The final cross of the pulling spoke must be on the outside so that, as braking force is applied, increased pulling spoke tension will pull the crossed spokes towards the center of the hub and away from the caliper. Lace the wheel symmetrically."
Just ride it! Ive never seen any king flange fail.If you look around the pro dh bikes at world cups,you often see the same bikes built with lacing all differing from one bike to the next. They are probably building wheels as well as possible regardless of lacing pattern as they know the rim could be hammered after a few runs anyway!
Just ride it! Good advice. Think I'll do just that. I really can't see why King are so specific with their recommendations.