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"coincidently" the same day we see the new lower cost Sram AXS groupset, we get the worlds most popular (i think) all rounder bike comes without provision for cable routing.
has Sram set this up for world domination or will we see wireless shimano soon?
Is this the way the world is going or have they painted themselves into a corner.
They do seem to use their bulk buying power to make the full builds a much (comparatiely) cheaper option than the frame only, most people I know with them, but not all, seem to just ride them stock.
If it came on the bike anyway, who would be put off by electronic shifting?
Other bikes are available (and much cheaper to keep running).
If it came on the bike anyway, who would be put off by electronic shifting?
I'd be a little nervous right now but I certainly don't look for bikes with canti bosses or able to take a front mech. Right now I want routing for a stealth dropper rather than assume wireless so I guess I'm not ready to make the wireless gears only leap
I'm so glad they are rather pricey...I do so love a Stumpy 😂
Given that axs has been around for 5 years now, I'm not sure it is 'new', so really isn't an issue. However, if you are out in the wilds in an unpopular place and have a mechanical, then I can see that being a concern, but otherwise - aside from the price - it is very common nowadays.
Tbh I’m always a bit surprised when I see a “high spec” bike that [i]doesn’t[/i] have electronic shifting - it’s better in every way except cost. Obvious SRAM are miles ahead too so Shimano really need to catch up, wouldn’t even consider their version atm.
The Alloy version has SX.
Sorry thats the old model.
External hoses too?
Been common in road bike frames for years - frames that'll only accept Di2 wiring not mechanical cables and I'm sure Canyon had (for a while anyway) a bike that had zero cable holes designed for SRAM wireless only.
Great in every way. Except it means running sram.
Great way to ruin a good ride 😉
Don't mind me over here stockpiling m9120 doubles and 4*104 triple rings before the apocalypse
All for external routing...internal is a pain all round (suspect this will be like the Presta/Schrader debate - all personal choice).
Hardly shocking on their flagship carbon trail bike now is it? Dual air chamber shock is more interesting.
TBH though, seeing as I'd only ever be mulling a 2nd hand one of these over, I'm already out. Imagine being the poor fool picking up a 3-5 year old used stumpy down the line, having to replace a goosed axs mech and get a proprietary shock (probably out of production by then) serviced.
At this price point they're not really intended to be 'sustainable' products anymore. I'll be interested to see if the same choices and designed in compatibility issues carry on through to the pauper's aluminium versions...
You can use any shock with it...
Imagine being the poor fool picking up a 3-5 year old used stumpy down the line, having to replace a goosed axs mech and get a proprietary shock (probably out of production by then) serviced.
+1
But also, SRAM, especially the cheaper stuff, has a reputation for being a bit ........ quick wearing and fragile
GX I can live with, SX/NX at least the cable stuff you can just swap like for like with a shimano mech if/when it dies.
Been common in road bike frames for years – frames that’ll only accept Di2 wiring not mechanical cables and I’m sure Canyon had (for a while anyway) a bike that had zero cable holes designed for SRAM wireless only.
TBH I could live with it on a road bike, my road bikes mech is 20 years old!
I'd not want to go back to cable shifting now, electronic shifting is just better. Whilst it may be a spec unique shock it's not restricted to it so no issues there.
The biggest issue I can see is it's just not very exciting/inspiring for that much money.
thisisnotaspoon
But also, SRAM, especially the cheaper stuff, has a reputation for being a bit …….. quick wearing and fragile
Think thats a fair criticism of the cheaper stuff, but GX and up is very good these days, and better in a lot of ways than Shimano equivalents. My GX AXS mech has had a serious battering over the years and keeps.on going.
If it came on the bike anyway, who would be put off by electronic shifting?
Me - it would be a deal breaker. I wouldn't buy a bike with it
I’m guessing when they update the alloy version it’ll have cable routing.
Just zip-tie a full-length outer to it🤷
And party like it's 1999.
Zip ties were the done thing when retrofitting disks and maguras to your non disk non hydraulic routed frames.
The best ideas don't go away for ever 😉
I wish Specialized would stop with the stupid slack seat tube.
Yes, I know it's an (effective) 77° but that's only at a certain extension. The higher you go, the slacker it gets. For the longer legged, this isn't great. I guess they know more than me about designing bikes though. Other than that, I like the look of it
I wouldn't buy an mtb that was electronic shifting only. I mangle mechs on a pretty regular basis and it's expensive enough having to buy 11s XT!
I also know 2 people who have ditched AXS (not Transmission) due to its fragility and lack of durability.
A pal has AXS on his eeb, mech is knackered.
+£400 to replace.
I suggested he try for a warranty as it's the spring that seems to have failed.
Lucky boy, SRAM agreed and one is on it's way.
It's not buying a replacement that would bother me, it's buying a second replacement as I ****ted the first replacement on the first/second ride...
Electronic shifting is nice though...
as a massive fan of AXS I dont have an issue with this. Have been using the older AXS for the last 4ish years without issue and am now on T-Type, again, its been flawless, so a electronic only bike wouldnt be an issue.
Think yourself lucky they put a cable dropper post in 🙂 Or went with headset cable routing!
I like the new stumpy. sounds like a very versatile trail bike. Expensive, yes, but many bikes are these days.
Will be interesting to see if an alloy version follows and if that will have the ability to run a mechanical drivetrain.
I’ve specced no cable/hose routing on bikes, so no big deal for me. Got AXS the day it came out and, touch wood, it’s been fit and forget.
They do seem all the parts - cages, bodies, etc -0 for the AXS mech, they are repairable as well as durable
it’s better in every way except cost.
And convenience (including having to remember to charge).
They do seem all the parts – cages, bodies, etc -0 for the AXS mech, they are repairable as well as durable
IIRC the cage parts cost more than I might spend on an entire mechanical mech.
It's a bold move from Spesh, and presumably there are advantages to them in production costs and design convenience.
Is there also no routing for a cable dropper? That was the awkward bit on the old Stumpy Evo.
Pic shows 2 cables. I've run AXS for a few years and prefer it over the normal.
The charging part is a myth really...unless you genuinely have no interest in maintaining your bike...chains get lubed, tyres get inflated, shocks get tweaked...charging a mech battery is just like that.
The mechs are very robust - going by the scores and marks on mine, it has taken a fair few knocks.
Pic shows 2 cables.
Good spot, no cable droppers would be a step too far eh.
But if you're doing tube-in-tube runs for two cables anyway, would one more really be that hard?
I think people are very tribal about their droppers.
If not now, then at least when this was designed, there was only one option that could hope to produce in the volume spesh require, which was the reverb, which tops out at 170mm.
IMO An MTB needs to take a battering and be easily repairable at a reasonable cost. For that reason, I'm out.
If not now, then at least when this was designed, there was only one option that could hope to produce in the volume spesh require, which was the reverb, which tops out at 170mm.
It's also expensive.
ASX mechs and seatpopsts are both ~£300 more than their acoustic cousins aftermarket. And I'm guessing Spesh is paying peanuts for the x-fusion droppers. So the price hike probably wasn't worth it even if the OEM pricing is better.
But if you’re doing tube-in-tube runs for two cables anyway, would one more really be that hard?
You'd think so, especially if they just put a modular port on the end of them so you could run 1/2/3 cables into the same port.
Either that or why not just go all in with an integrated headset like road bikes and hide the brake hose as well? It'd actually be easier than a road bike because you could hide it a 1.5" headset bearing?
Great in every way. Except it means running sram.
XT/XTR wireless is supposedly due at the end of the year.
Spesh had to go with a wired dropper, as the AXS is comically long and there isn't the greatest insertion depth.
The elephant in the room is the price, Levo SL, which is the same frame/parts, is currently the same price.
I'd be intrigued by one to replace my short travel Stumpy, but not until they are on sale.
I like the look of it and don't think the cost is that bad really. The shock can be serviced or replaced just like any other. I've moved over to AXS on most of the bikes in this household and wouldn't buy a new bike with mechanical shifting (unless it was so heavily discounted I could upgrade immediately). Zero issues other than occasional scares when I've forgotten to charge a battery for a month or two. Never had one totally run out though. Love the light touch and perfect shifts. Latest T-type shifts even better and the pod controller feels great. Loads of additional, techy benefits too via the apps.
For the “I wouldn’t buy it” crowd, were you considering buying a stumpy anyway?
My wife love it and has installed on two of her bikes.
I already own an older stumpy Evo currently (bought 2nd hand as a frameset and cobbled together with various parts), which I do really like and will want/need to replace eventually so I would be looking at more recent versions of the same thing yes.
It's also not my most ridden bike, so spunking mega-bucks at it's replacement and/or going used again (more likely TBH) would put me in that awkward position (if for example, I bought a 2024 Stumpy in say 2026ish) of having bought into some proprietary features (e.g. the shock) and some significant drivetrain constraints as basically you're now tied to AXS with that particular frame (of course that could change), SBC want to sell punters (the wealthy ones at least) a 'Package' that "just works" and the expectation is that they'll have traded up before any real problems emerge. it's the 'apple-ification' of the MTB.
Like others I'm still sceptical about SRAM reliability, and as much as people say current GX and up are reliable just how "reliable" are we talking here? Do you think you'll still be using that same mechs in 5 years? or will you have bought a new bike and flipped it on before then?
I don't actually see that many people about still running 10 or 11 speed SRAM on MTBs, partly because they flooded the market with 12 speed at all price points a few years ago, and partly I suspect because spares became scarce and expensive (cue people telling me all about their surviving 11 speed SRAM MTB) Vs just buying a whole new drivetrain or bike...
"Reliability" is often judged over the period people own a given bike. A high price point, flagship bike like these new Carbon Stumpys are probably only with their original owners for a couple of years, how reliable will an AXS mech bought in 2024 be for it's second or third owner come ~2029? what about that double chamber shock?
I'm still unconvinced.
I'm not down on leccy shifting at all, I've played with mates Di2 on road bikes and seen that it is durable, but it's still not the 'affordable' option, and if I were going to have it anywhere it would be on a curly barred bike first.
My MTB(s) don't really see enough use these days to justify the investment in leccy shifting over cheaper and still pretty reliable Bowden cables. gearing Range isn't really a differentiator, so aside from some minor maintenance savings, and my ever present question over SRAM's reliability/durability why would I volunteer to be forced down the route of AXS only on an MTB?
As noted the poverty spec Aluminium versions will be along in due course for people like me to consider, and will likely retain cable routing options, and more standard shocks perhaps. They'll actually probably cost SBC more to manufacture with those features and still have a lower asking price because of the lower tier components bolted on.
Leccy shifting is actually a cost benefit for the OEMs; less complexity/cost in making the frame, fewer hours for assembly... Yet customers pay them more for that product currently, I'd like to see a tipping point where simpler bikes with leccy shifting start to become more affordable, how far off is that?
I am using the same mech after 5 years...has a few scrapes on it but works perfectly. Jockey wheels were replaced with aftermarket alloy ones when the originals wore out, but it works every time and has been a perfect shift every single time.
I'm fully expecting another 5 years of flawless use from it. I'd say 5 years in is the point where you can claim something is reliable.
My only grumble with it (and I've always said this) is the cost, that is prohibitive and it is a shame. I understand why it is a premium but I also think it shouldn't be as expensive.
Once you have it, it is very very easy to live with - if you use a Garmin or similar bike computer then you charge that, you'd charge the mech battery as well (although not as frequently as the bike computer).
The shock can be changed to something else, so hopefully won't impact second hand sales - although I really hope we are past the point of building in obsolescence into kit and can run components for a long time.
i think AXS will always be one of those marmite products. Some people are put off by the cost. Some are put off by electronics and batteries. Some people (like me) love the system and was keen to try it as soon as it released.
having nothing but 2 brake hoses come from my handle bars is perfection for me (i have a AXS reverb too) and thats before the shifting performance AXS brings me.
A buddy mocked me when i first got it. a few years later he bought a bike that happened to have it. he now has it on both his bikes. Sometimes you have to try these things before you write them off. But equally, i appreciate some folks dont like or want it.
A bit like i will never want to ride or buy say a Pole. Or despite the rave reviews, a Geometron isnt on my radar.
I would not be surprised to see either an alloy Stumpjumper OR potentially an alloy bike under another name with similar geo (Camber, Pitch?) appear soon, all setup for traditional gearing.
I would not be surprised to see either an alloy Stumpjumper OR potentially an alloy bike under another name with similar geo (Camber, Pitch?) appear soon, all setup for traditional gearing.
Agree they'll deffo have an alu version with normal cable routing.
Apparently they'd been sitting on this launch for a while, as they offloaded the backlog of the old model.
So timing of metal version may depend how many of the old ones are still unsold?