Following on from [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/my-new-road-bike-kind-of ]this previous thread[/url], received IF's frame drawing today, there's a couple of small changes to the original we sent over, though not much difference:
[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5014/5536435807_3561583251_z.jp g" target="_blank">
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[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/32746168@N08/ ]ten_sim[/url], on Flickr
Original drawing/design
[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5211/5529722392_0425612ceb_z.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/32746168@N08/5529722392/ ]IF Ti Factory Lightweight Custom Design[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/32746168@N08/ ]ten_sim[/url], on Flickr
IF have lengthened the headtube out to 180mm, guessing due to the integrated headset? Might query if it's possible to reduce this a bit, but then it'd throw all the other measurements out wouldn't it? What're the advantages of a short HT (if any)?
Any other dimensions ya'll think I should query before signing off on this? Once I've paid the deposit it's all locked in, so want to get this right 🙂
Another pic with a few more measurements/statistics:
[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5020/5536419711_72c725cd5e_z.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= 
[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/32746168@N08/ ]ten_sim[/url], on Flickr
So you lost your bottle on the other design ? 🙂
The angles look a bit better, HA a little slack, but then you have a 45mm rake fork, where as 43mm seems more the standard these days.
The 180mm head tube + 30mm spacers seems very high for what is a small bike. I assume its a 44mm dia dead tube, but thats still a very tall front end IMO.
It is a small bike, head tube length at 180mm is more in keeping with a sportive style bike. So a bit more relaxed and upright. If you want a really racy head down position then you may well want to get the head tube length reduced.
The slightly shorter chainstays will help stiffen the rear triangle, making the bike feel more responsive out of the saddle. You should still have clearance for reasonably large tyres if needed as well.
Looks good to me.
That would fit me a treat! the headtube on my defy is 140 with 30mm of spacers, I would be guided by IF on the headtube length.
Just a general thought, but you're dealing with one of the world's leading fabricators of custom-made frames. If I were in your position, I'd tend to trust them to know what they're doing rather than second-guess them, and, within reason, let them get on with it. It's what you're paying them to do after all.
I'd suggest that IF maybe knows more about frame design than the STW forum. If you've told them what you want, they should be more than capable of producing it for you.
I'm sure it'll be a lovely bike btw, all the IF stuff I've seen has looked ace and reportedly ridden beautifully. Slightly envious, though I'm very happy with my Planet X Lynskey road thing.
2nd BWD
You're never going to get a consensus opinion from STW, so why not trust the experts and yourself. You know what you're looking for from this frame, they know how to design a frame to meet those requirements.
Looking forward to seeing it once it's built
Third BWD...
As above, if you've given them your requirements I'd let them guide you. Presumably they asked you what kind of ride you want (racy/sportif)?
Is this you by the way? That's a nice waistcoat.
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Edit: Link to photo didn't work
I am no expert in design but my IF mountain bike frame is very comfortable and rides really well, I would have no hesitation in trusting their design.
4th BWD
If IF are 'right' with a 180mm HT on a 53cm frame, does that make everyone else wrong (assuming the OP's proportions are within the realms of average)?
Lynskey quote a 126mm HT on their 53cm frame with 44mm head tube.
Just saying...
but headtubes will change with every rider. my personal choice would be to have a headtube that gives minimal spacers as this increases stiffness and looks better. i like the way pegoretti does it (although technically he drops the top tube to make a smaller main triangle)
i would trust IF and Mosquito. they know more about about bikes than you or STW.
[i]"Custom seems to mean something different now, where personal urges get veto power over the very thing you’re paying for: The know-how of the gifted builder. It’s a recipe for unhappiness for everyone involved. You don’t give instruction to the master tailor, the pilot, or the Michelin-starred chef. From whence does the license come to do so with the framemaker?"[/i]
[url= http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/tag/dario-pegoretti/ ]some views on buying custom[/url]
Top stuff, attend bike fitting session and leave believing things to be a far better fit than your current ride, get one of the worlds premium frame builders to sort the design, put said design onto a forum to let a bunch of strangers whose frame design credentials are unkown introduce anxiety, note the lack of response from the forums resident frame designers, query length of headtube due to concerns it's too long and get it lengthened......
There's a review of this bike in the Comic this week.
I shall just wait to see the finished article.
There's a review of this bike in the Comic this week.
What's the Comic aP? Would be interested to read the review.
i would trust IF and Mosquito. they know more about about bikes than you or STW.
Fair point, I'm just a little nervous about getting this right is all... it's a lot of money! My relative lack of knowledge re. road bike geometry and types isn't helping, hence popping the post up on here.
Top stuff... ...put said design onto a forum to let a bunch of strangers whose frame design credentials are unkown introduce anxiety
Again, fair point! Really should just trust Mosquito and IF to get it right, I know 😳
The comic = Cycling Weakly = Cycling Weekly...
The comic = Cycling Weakly = Cycling Weekly...
Guessing their rep is not great with you guys eh?
Fair point, I'm just a little nervous about getting this right is all... it's a lot of money! My relative lack of knowledge re. road bike geometry and types isn't helping, hence popping the post up on here.
I guess what I'm saying is that IF are more likely to get it right if you let them use their expertise and experience than if you query their design based on stuff that may or may not be right. It's a trust thing and an expertise thing and, ironically maybe, it's why you're paying them lots of money. In a way, the price should buy you some peace of mind and I'd try to look at it that way rather than stressing over it.
You don't really have to know about geometry and proportions, that's their job. All you have to know is whether you enjoy riding the bike once it's built and delivered. I have no idea about the geometry on my Planet X, I took a wild guess that the combination of Lynskey's ability to build good ti frames and Planet X's experience with geometry for British roads would mean that their production frame would do what it was supposed to do. And it does. I love riding it, but I still have no idea about the frame proportions etc.
So anyway, if you have misgivings, raise them with IF and see what they say and otherwise, sign it off, put the kettle one and settle down with a cup of tea and some low-calorie biccies and wait for the postie to knock on the door with a big box from the US 🙂
It's fine, sort of - at least as reliable as the other mags out there though make of that what you will - these days it'd dumbed down quite a lot but it was know as the comic/weakly even when it was very much the mag for serious racing roadies.
they do actually ride the bikes though. that snot green IF was ridden on a fair few hard rides before the review was written (i know because i was sucking it's wheel for most of them)
Comparing this frame drawing against say a Spesh Tarmac or Cervelo R3 (similar bikes I'd think?) most of the numbers are pretty similar, but that HT really stands out for a 54cm frame; both the Spesh and the Cervelo are 140-150mm, 180mm+ is on their 58cm+ frames...
have emailed IF to see if there's a reason behind this, guessing it's related to my current inflexibility resulting in me being more comfortable with a more 'upright' position at the bike fit?
American frame makers seem to go into too long head angles-Seven, Serrota and IF. The people I know who went with American's choice wishes they were firmer and went more Euro style with a smaller headtube.
Apparenlty they're scared of lawsuits if the front end is too low and you go over the front end.
You can always add an extra spacer or two, but if it's too high then tough!
Cadel Evan's bike, which I had a little sit on today, has a tiny headtube, no spacer and no top cap on the headset- guess he likes a low front end to go with his 130mm stem!
Well, in the end, this is what I've signed off on, headtube reduced to 150mm:
[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5179/5550468767_25b477d024_z.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/32746168@N08/5550468767/ ]IF drawing[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/32746168@N08/ ]ten_sim[/url], on Flickr
Picking it up in person from the factory at the end of April, looking forward to it! 8)
What was the reason they spec'd the monster 180mm in the first place? And why did they cave and chop it down by 30mm?
My bikefit suggested a 170mm headtube, not sure why IF came back with a 180mm... I think the main reason for the long HT is the fact that I'm a little inflexible at the moment, and carrying a bit of a spare tyre, so probably didn't feel totally comfortable on the Sizefit bike with the bigger saddle/handlebar drop (plus, being predominately a MTB'er I'm straight away more comfortable in a more upright position!).
It's only an inch of what the fitting session suggested, worst case I'll stick an extra spacer or two on there till I get used to being on a road bike again!