[Closed] New respect for roadies...

its for the kids.. its charity! The guy rode there and rode back..says it all.
Well done for raising some money for the school.

"it's just a ride around a marked course as fast as possible."

How is this different from racing?

No podium, prizes or official results with riders listed by finishing time.

official results with riders listed by finishing time.

Some do, and if not it's not exactly hard to sort by time in an spreadsheet.

I really don't know why people get so irate about sportives and people 'racing' them. It's all bikes, it's all good.

The point is that in the UK sportive events are carefully designed to not legally be "races" so they can slip under the requirements for police permissions, road management etc. that would be needed if they were. So no official winners, prizes etc even though it's trivial to check the times and find out who was actually fastest on the day.

On the whole this is probably a good thing 😉

But on the continent they're less fastidious and the big Italian gran fondos (for example) are very much competitive events at the front of the pack.

Just a tip as well, i do a lot of the Wiggle Sportives and MTB events, would normally cost you £35 or thereabouts a pop, but you can volunteer to marshal car park, help in registration etc in return for free ride, done about 8-9 Wiggle events already so saved in excess of £250

Or just download the route and ride it the same day as the sportive for nothing. For most the roads aren't closed and anyone can ride them. Though I imagine it would get quite annoying with a load of other riders out on the roads.

Though I can imagine it would get quite annoying with a load of other riders out on the roads.

Err... what? The whole point of sportives is to ride in a big event with loads of other riders out on the roads. If I wanted to go out and ride on my own all day then yes, I can do that anytime for free...

Err... what? The whole point of sportives is to ride in a big event with loads of other riders out on the roads. If I wanted to go out and ride on my own all day then yes, I can do that anytime for free...

One of the many reasons I've never done one 🙂

You were doing so well!!

I deemed it important to at least attempt to offend one group.

Some do, and if not it's not exactly hard to sort by time in an spreadsheet.

Those that do may well be in breach of whatever insurance (assuming they are insured) they have in place for the event.

Any sportive that was promoting itself as a race in any way would be in trouble should there be an accident and a rider try and prosecute.

mtbmatt - Member

"it's just a ride around a marked course as fast as possible."
How is this different from racing?

No podium, prizes or official results with riders listed by finishing time.

And no or few folk participating who actually race.

And no or few folk participating who actually race.

Seem different to the ones I've done (albeit in Spain) - they're technically not races, but most people want to get a decent time and/or beat their mates. Which is a race, basically.

Out of interest, if I wanted to compete in a proper race (and not a sportive), how much choice is there in the UK? Over 100 miles with some decent climbing?

it’s not a race if you stop for a piss and queue for half a banana and over strength low quality sports drink

it’s not a race if you stop for a piss and queue for half a banana and over strength low quality sports drink

It is when your mate does the same 🙂

Out of interest, if I wanted to compete in a proper race (and not a sportive), how much choice is there in the UK? Over 100 miles with some decent climbing?

None.
But that probably has more to do with the UK road racing scene, rather than the laws we have about what can and can't be classed as a race.

it’s not a race if you stop for a piss

Is is taking it too seriously to piss on the move? I've seen the pros do it - with the helping hand of a team mate.

"it's just a ride around a marked course as fast as possible."

How is this different from racing?

From my vast experience of not taking part in sportives or road races I'll wildly speculate that the main difference is the legal/insurance hoops organisers have to jump through and more importantly from our/public's perspective is the behaviour of participants. You're not supposed to pull racing shit whilst doing a sportive. I can go out and ride my regular road loop today and then go out tomorrow with a bunch of mates and do it as fast as we possibly can, aslong as we follow the rules of the road it's all legit - I think.

(AFAIK) TT is where it all gets a bit grey area I guess, that's a race, with results/winners on open roads and it's all above board.

[quote=njee20 ]Racing you compete against others, a sportive you're only competing against yourself

Officially. In reality for most people in a race, it's what happens on the roads, not what appears on the results sheet which matters, and exactly the same for a sportive where most people aren't treating it as a time trial.

Yes, but that's the official difference. Otherwise, as observed, racing against your mates is a "race". I'd not say that my normal lunch ride is a race, but it's nice to have a bit of healthy competition.

I've done plenty of road races and some sportives and there it a world of difference, between the two. I've never seen anyone walk up a hill in a race, or stop for a breather, while waiting for their slower mates either.

Sportives in the UK can be very pleasant, fun, rides, but races they are not.

[quote=dragon ]I've never seen anyone walk up a hill in a race

I've never done a race with a hill as steep as plenty of the ones I've ridden on sportives, nor a race as long as most sportives.

Everything's a race, check out any thread regarding an organised event- dyfi, honc etc etc - post after post of 'i got round in this time', or 'i had 6 punctures and an hour for lunch, so it took me...'.

Just cos you have to stop for a breather or to wait for mates doesn't mean you're not racing. Just that you're not as fit or mean as you'd like to be.

I've never done a race with a hill as steep as plenty of the ones I've ridden on sportives, nor a race as long as most sportives.

Given that apparently there aren't any races with those kind of characteristics, the anti-sportive snobbishness you see on these threads is pretty stupid.

I've never done a race with a hill as steep as plenty of the ones I've ridden on sportives, nor a race as long as most sportives.

Chalk and cheese though isn't it?

Sportives advertise themselves as some sort of personal challenge to complete, and a nice day out in some lovely countryside. Hence the big hills and distance on the longer loops. Probably more comparable to something like an audax than a road race.

Racing is more likely to be an hours balls out frantic riding around some flat aerodrome, jostling for position and trying not to get dropped or crash.

Some people enjoy the former, some enjoy the latter, some enjoy both.

Now where did I put those hob nobs 🙂

I've never done a race with a hill as steep as plenty of the ones I've ridden on sportives, nor a race as long as most sportives.

So you failed to move up to 2nd Cat then 😉

mogrim - Member
Given that apparently there aren't any races with those kind of characteristics, the anti-sportive snobbishness you see on these threads is pretty stupid.

It's anti "SPORTIVE RIDER WHO CALLS IT RACING" snobbery.

I'd wager 90% of sportive riders would last a few minutes in the bunch in a road race.

Where's druid today anyway?

Given that apparently there aren't any races with those kind of characteristics, the anti-sportive snobbishness you see on these threads is pretty stupid.

Strange isn't it? I suspect some people are too unimaginative to come up with their own prejudices so they borrow them from other internet warriors.

I think for me, i don't enjoy racing as such because i know i'd not have much chance of being near the front plus i am really not a fan of going round in laps, i much prefer a journey from one place to another whether that be something like the Dragon Ride or Etape Cymru on the road, or my favourite MTB event the Isle of Man End 2 End, challenges instead of races (for me, I know E2E is a race)

Whilst you could ride the route on your own I enjoy the banter on the way round and shared sense of suffering.

It's anti "SPORTIVE RIDER WHO CALLS IT RACING" snobbery.

I'd wager 90% of sportive riders would last a few minutes in the bunch in a road race.

That's the good thing about sportives - it's a race with lots of bunches, so you can find the right one for your ability.

I've never seen anyone walk up a hill in a race

riders pushed up harting hill in the 1994 tour de france

Last year, Tirreno-Adriatico:

[img] [/img]

Last year, Tirreno-Adriatico:

So you pic of a race that even the organisers said went too far as an example? That is a 27% hill ridden 3 times in the wet.

So you pic of a race that even the organisers said went too far as an example? That is a 27% hill ridden 3 times in the wet.

Someone posted they'd never seen people pushing in a race. This was a race, and they're pushing.

dragon - Member

So you pic of a race that even the organisers said went too far as an example? That is a 27% hill ridden 3 times in the wet.

so, not as steep as Winnats pass? which is often used in Peak District Sportives.

Since in the old Tour of the Peaks Paul Curran used to ride Winnats on something like a 39x21, and Froome at Tirreno-Adriatico, struggled on the pictured climb on 36x28 or something, then I'd suggest gradient isn't the be all and end all of how hard a climb is to ride up.

or, Froome is a wet flannel, spoiled by riding on 1:10 'climbs'...

So you pic of a race that even the organisers said went too far as an example? That is a 27% hill ridden 3 times in the wet.

And I've done sportives with 25% gradients. So what's your point?

Just done a 100k sportive in Jersey , steepest climb was 29% ,I got off and walked admittedly I was riding my brothers old POS with Butterfly shifters and 7speed cassette, it was good fun but whoever planned the route decided to have the bulk of the climbs in the last 3rd of the course.....gits.

Still I enjoy the occasional sportive and its good to test yourself as I know there's no chance I'm going to set the fastest time.

Nothing wrong with sportives, so long as they're not stupidly expensive and you don't act like an idiot. Which most folk don't in my experience...

If it was a race everyone would set off at the same time. By all means go balls out and "race" for a good time but it's like comparing times on Strava, good fun but meaningless.

(Monkeyfudger - Strava user who's done a couple of races and a sportive...)

By all means go balls out and "race" for a good time but it's like comparing times on Strava, good fun but meaningless.

Yeah, but realistically unless you're actually going for a podium finish you could say that about most "proper" (amateur) races, too.

Mogrim - folk in races are at least learning about racing

Saw David Arroyo and others walk up the Muro de Aia in the 2010 Basque Tour. 33% in some places.

Some crazily narrow views on what is a race or sportive on here. As I said above, put a bunch of good cat 3 aerodrome racers in the first pen of Quebrantahuesos and ask them afterwards if it was a race or not. Of course you can bimble round dressed as a smurf and queue at all the feed stations and finish in ten hours. Or you can go for the win (and believe me it is a win) but you'll need to recruit some fast guys to take the wind and keep you in food and water.
Maybe it's different in the UK.

Edit : here is the man himself
[img] [/img]

Maybe it's different in the UK.

It has been mentioned several times above, yes it is different in the UK.
France, Italy and Spain too if you say so (I haven't done Quebrantahuesis, but want to) have sportive style events that are classed as races.

Do you get points for 'winning' a sportive now then?