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new cycle shop in Hertfordshire
Oooh whereabouts?
Sunday opening
promised phone calls to actually happen.
God yes. If I'm having you order in something for me (even though I could order it from Wiggle/CRC and usually for less), and you say "we'll give you a call when it's in" then I want a call as soon as it's with you.
NOT a week or two later in a tone of voice that suggests I'm at fault for leaving my bits cluttering up your shop.
NOT skipping it entirely and having me call you to be told "oh yeah, it's been here for ages".
Agree on opening hours. Open early and close late at least a day a week. Open on Sundays, close midweek to have a day off.
Find a niche or two and stick to them. You can't do MTB, Road, Tri, Commuting, CX, Tourers, BMX, kids, etc well unless you've got a huge premises, at least a dozen staff and a few million to commit to stock. Ideally those niches complement other bike shops in the area. If you're great at what you do, and if you offer something the big chains don't, people will travel far and wide to use you - eg. Charlie the Bikemonger, Pedal & Spoke, Head for the Hills, etc.
I wouldn't stock anything over £500, I'd concentrate purely on the commuter and family cycling side of the trade.
I certainly wouldn't encourage the Guardian reading, niche-mongers
They'll just sit there all day, buying nothing and complaining that they only drink fair trade coffee from a £1000 piece of Italian machinery.
As for having people coming in for a chat? You will not be happy if your staff are just hanging around chatting when the shop needs a tidy up or your mech needs to get that bike finished for the customer due to collect in 10 mins
Definitely this!
If people are in looking at catalogues and whatever they will tie up staff in inane conversation. Meanwhile someone comes in who wants to buy something and there's no staff.
Personally if I go to a shop I want to buy something, not have a sit down, if I wanted something and the staff were sitting chatting to people I'd get annoyed. If I went in and was encouraged to sit down and chat to staff and they kept leaving to serve people who came in I'd be annoyed.
Open plan workshop can be annoying too with customers who will want to get within 3" of you so they can see what you're doing, and then just be in the way constantly. A lot to be said for having a physical barrier. Annoying customer? "Sorry sir, insurance says you can't be in the workshop, can you stay out there please". Kids as well.
Open plan workshop can be annoying too with customers who will want to get within 3" of you so they can see what you're doing, and then just be in the way constantly. A lot to be said for having a physical barrier. Annoying customer? "Sorry sir, insurance says you can't be in the workshop, can you stay out there please". Kids as well.
I worked in a semi-open plan workshop once and it was really annoying - customers kept coming over, asking inane questions or demanding to know why you weren't working on their bike/when would it be ready etc. They couldn't actually get into it but they could see over and shout to you. By closing off that section of the shop completely, we gained more workshop space and everything was much more efficient.
Forget all the coffee, magazines, place to chill stuff; its a business, to make money not a place for time wasters to hang about in.
That's the approach a lot of bike shops take - and IMO they offer nothing I can't get cheaper online.
OP asked what we would like to see - I'd like to see a shop that gives customers a good experience not just a place that takes your money then kicks you out.
If I've got time to waste, and I spend a lot on bikes and kit and enjoy planning the next ride/purchase why wouldn't any business want me hanging out in their shop if it increases the chance of me spending with them.
I hear what you're saying njee but not everyone has your knowledge and many people will go in without the first idea what they really need.
Most shops I've been into have no selling skills or customer focus. I'll give an example :-
New, very nicely stocked shop, good selection of road/mtb bikes, parts and clothing. I wandered in and apart from the guy behind the desk, was the only person there. I got a nod as I walked in and after a few minutes walking around was asked if I needed any help. "Just browsing" - "ok". After another few minutes I was having a good look at what appeared to be a demo full-sus bike at the front of the desk - about £3k worth. "is this a demo bike", "yup", "how do I go about getting a test ride", "oh xxxx deals with the mtb side, he's not in today, should be in tomorrow", "uh ok........do you have a wheelbulder", "yup, he's downstairs"..........
Maybe it's me but for crying out loud, surely it's not beyond the capabilities of the 'slowest' employee (I don't think this guy was 'just' an employee BTW) to realise that a) I might be in the market for an expensive bike and b) I might need/want something done to a wheel. Why did he not open up the conversation?
This same shop has just sold a colleague a bike that I wouldn't have recommended EVER for him. He's a big lad who lifts weights, weighs about 17 stone and apart from riding with his kids, intends to go to Hamsterley etc. with his mates. They gave him a decent discount on a hybrid!!!!!! The look on my face said it all when he told me what he'd bought...........for £700!
Most shops I've been in seem like that, they just don't spend enough time finding out what the customer needs. That to me would be the most important thing for any new shop + a good selection of goods to suit the target market. Doesn't have to be loads of different bikes crammed so tightly together that you can't get a proper look at them, which is another pet hate of mine. Far better to have a limited stock from one or two manufacturers, than a confusing bunch of bikes crammed together.
All fantastic feedback, it's really really appreciated!
One of the things I was umping and raring about is sunday opening but I think the comments here have swayed me into thinking it will be a good idea. We were planning on having not only a late opening (8pm thursdays) but also an early opening (8am wednesdays) to satisfy commuters and the like who could drop their bike off for services on the way to the office and pick it up on the thursday evening.
Just to clarify, by an open plan workshop, we're segregating an area with the counter area, behind it being the workshop and "behind the till" areas. So although they will be in essence in plain site, there will be a physical barrier between it and showroom space.
I'm starting to think we're not doing enough clothing; we've been speaking to a number of brands, with the intention of taking on 2 "mainstream" bread and butter brands with some more diverse items on the side. Whether this will be enough in the long run we, will have to see. Certainly initially we will have certain budgetary constraints that will prevent us from doing too much too quickly, but preventing us from running before we can walk could well be of benefit in hindsight.
Striking the best balance between relaxed and business atmosphere will always be a challenge, but arse-kickings will be dished out if staff are neglecting their duties to make sure everyone is looked after properly.
As regards demo bikes - we have decent trails locally and will encourage customers to take them out for a proper spin whenever possible. I don't expect people to part with £0000's without giving the bike a proper going over.
Personally if I go to a shop I want to buy something, not have a sit down, if I wanted something and the staff were sitting chatting to people I'd get annoyed. If I went in and was encouraged to sit down and chat to staff and they kept leaving to serve people who came in I'd be annoyed.
Why would you be annoyed if the staff left you to serve people? You know they are there to do a job, and you're just in for a chat and a coffee?
This is the problem with many STW readers, they just have totally unrealistic expectations. The moon sir, oh no thanks, only if it's on a stick!
After three years with a shop we're about to move.
Open plan workshop - going, too many mistakes as the mechanic can't get on with the work. We will still have a small work area in the shop for quick tunes and punctures, but the main workshop will be off site.
We are going to have a chargeable coffee machine in the shop, along with more space for clothing and consumables. Parking is really important, any more than 50m and people will go elsewhere. (When you've got two kids in tow, and you need to drop off your bike for a service, being able to park right outside is important.
If you do get involved in the local scene, be prepared to take a lot on the chin. Club members buying shiny new bikes elsewhere (ones at twice the budget they told you they had), you'll also get to hear all the bad things being said about you as well as the good. (sometimes this is good feedback, sometimes it's your STW customer, and although you supplied the moon, the stick wasn't gold plated, therefore your shop is rubbish, and neither they nor their mates will ever shop with you again, on quiet days in the winter this can get you down.) Positively you do get to meet and ride with some great people, and from a social, and socially responsible point of view this can be the best part of having the shop.
Good luck!
I hear what you're saying njee but not everyone has your knowledge and many people will go in without the first idea what they really need.
Totally agree - I was that person in the LBS for 10 years after all! It's a psychological thing. If I'm shopping (and asking advice) I don't expect to sit down to do it, if I walked in and the staff were sitting down chatting (quite possibly to legitimate prospective customers like me, quite possibly just chewing the fat, impossible to judge) then I'd be a bit disgruntled. If you provide an area for people to lurk they will do so, and take up staff time.
Why would you be annoyed if the staff left you to serve people? You know they are there to do a job, and you're just in for a chat and a coffee?This is the problem with many STW readers, they just have totally unrealistic expectations. The moon sir, oh no thanks, only if it's on a stick!
Because people won't think that - they'll be sat there, chatting, but thinking they're just as important any anyone else. Customer comes in the door, stands at the till wanting to pay for their inner tube and the staff member will either have to carry on the conversation and ignore them, or leave.
To me it's a bugbear in shops full stop - even if I don't want advice I want to be able to pay for my purchase. Segregating customers into the ones sat on the sofas 'chilling' or whatever and those who either want to grab something and go, or to look at bikes and things just creates a divide IMO.
I know a bike shop that had a seating area, but got rid because staff were just getting tied up with customers who thought they were important, but were just there to waste time.
Having well maintained stock is a big thing for me, I don't know if I'm jinxed but whenever I want something from the large chain bike shop near me, my size or thing I want always seems to be out of stock, with a 'might be able to get it in a week on thursday' or 'not sure when we would be getting it back in', which does just lead the informed buyer to CRC instead.
So yeah, clothing in all sizes for example, and if its on your store website, it should be in store!
..........This is the problem with many STW readers, they just have totally unrealistic expectations.
That is also the big problem for anyone opening a bike shop (I imagine, having never done it), the vast majority of customers will NOT be STW readers, or even big cycling enthusiasts, and unless you are targetting them specifically and the somewhat limited higher end/niche market, you are up against Halfords etc. so advice and customer service is paramount.
My LBS has just done away with all his clothing. OK, it was never the biggest shop in the world but he found he never had the right size/colour/item and it was just stock tying up money sitting there or costing a fortune to order in when you just needed the one item.
He's replaced it with a chargeable coffee machine. 😉
Fine if you've got a big shop/lots of cash to tie up in clothing but I'll use a variety of shops depending on what I want (and what discount I can get in each... 😉 ), not bothered about a shop not stocking absolutely everything, that's just unrealistic.
Parking is a big problem with a lot of shops, especially as many bikes shops tend to be a slightly skanky areas.
Late night opening is great, but if I have to park somewhere away from the shop and get my bike through a skanky area of town at night, I'd be put off. Hope I don't sound like too much of a p*ssy, but can think of a few examples of high end shops in naff areas.
I think getting staff with half a brain is important; they need to be enthusiastic (like a rider), but understand that customers may not be interested in the same riding as them and know the products they're selling.
Good luck - quality bikes shops can go up against the likes of CRC and Wiggle, but they need to offer something different which will be difficult to do as we all have different ideas (i.e. lurking area / no lurking area).
Forget all the coffee, magazines, place to chill stuff; its a business, to make money not a place for time wasters to hang about in.
Seems to work out quite well for Costa, Nero and Starbucks?
I don't read the guardian, but a coffee shop selling bike bits sounds pretty mint to me! LBS used to do tea and biscuits after rides, unfortunately it closed when an Evans opened up nearby.
its a business, to make money not a place for time wasters to hang about in
Except that when the customers take the same mercenary approach, they shop online and chastised for not supporting their LBS. a shop [i]Has[/i] to offer something that the websites cannot. It's not price, selection or stock so it must be service. Being buddies with the local riders should be waaaay up on the priorities. Word travels fast and they'll be far more inclined to shop with you.
Clothing in my experience, is always a bit of a punt in most instances. There will be a number of lines you know will sell well but you'll always have to take risks on certain lines, I think it will take us a while to learn our customers and their needs so I would imagine we'll be slightly more conservative in the first couple of seasons. That being said, we will have "less mainstream" items.
Regarding parking, the town we'll be in is quite affluent and has a large public carpark about 10metres away, so hoping that should cover most bases.
As soon as our lease is signed I'll be able to divulge a bit more info and hopefully post a few photos of progress. yes we will be advertising in the mag and online.
Except that when the customers take the same mercenary approach, they shop online
As I said, target commuters and families, sod the enthusiast weekend warriors
Stock a few Shimano and Hope brake pads from one of the cheap Chinese suppliers, chains, cheap cables etc. and let those wanting high-end parts buy online and maybe pick up some of the fitting
Who the hell wants to stock £800 forks or £1000 wheels just so people can finger them?
Cheap clothing and helmets, panniers etc. etc
Open on a Sunday. If you can't stretch to this, have a van full of pads, tubes, tyres, bolts etc and hang around the local trails, you'll make a killing.
Maybe do a collect and return service for people like me who are too lazy to clean or maintain their bike. I would gladly pay for my bike to be picked up on a Monday and returned to me fully serviced and washed on a Friday, ready for use.
Make sure you have at least one blackberry or smartphone so you can answer emails and phone calls immediately. There's no excuse not to be able to do this in the 21st century.
Offer everyone who comes through the door a cup of tea. If nothing else it takes 10 minutes to drink, and that's 10 minutes of looking at shiny bike bling, they might even buy something.
The two best things that any of my LBS's have ever had:-
1. A good wheelbuilder, with a strong reputation- wheel repairs are one of those things it's had to do at home, sooner or later everyone needs them from tourers to downhillers, a well built wheel is important to everyone.
2. A second hand corner / ex demo - offering customers bikes for sale to the general public, sounds counter-intuitive but it's a way to stock affordable bikes for no outlay, which should attract customers who will then need accessories/future repairs. Obviously you charge the seller a fee, including a full overhaul/safety check. (this is for mid-range bikes up over, no margins in second hand junk)
The idea of heading into a shop with the same hangers on sat around seemingly more interested in takling about bikes and ****y coffee, rather than riding bikes, makes me lose the will to live.
I just want a shop that is helpful and knowledgable, doesn't pretend to want to be my best mate, and has a good open pricing structure that gives some indication on how loyalty may (or may not) be rewarded.
I guess this just goes to show you will never please everyone, but good luck!
@ randomjeremy
That's something we've thought about and will be offering and it's great to hear that it's something that enthusiasts would be interested in.
A few ideas from me, ignore at your leisure:
Not too much bling in the window. I nearly didn't go into a shop recently because all they had was £2k+ bikes in the window and I "only" £1k to spend. Whilst there someone came in and asked if theyfixed "normal bikes". You need to ensure that you cater for the low end market.
Be Helpful. I needed a new saddle and I know I like Flite Ti's but also know they are hard to get. I asked one shop what the recommended, they looked blankly and said "well, we've got some Charge Spoons". Same at the second shop, "I always used to ride a Flite and now like the SLR, we've got 3 models here in stock, i can get you a Flite if you need one though". I think you can guess which I have just bought a new saddle from.
I don't get the coffee thing myself, in fact I think a shop full of regulars drinking coffee can be a little intimidating for a lot of people.
Workshop in site is good, but it needs to be seperate enought the mechanics aren't distracted.
I'm often confused why LBS's don't seem to take PX bikes in like you would with a car/motorbike....
You obviously offer a low price...
But i don't know a single place that does this.
Most cars which get taken in PX are sold on at auction, then sold by a trader lower down the food chain.
No such chain exists in the bike world, so you would have to sell them on yourself. Every problem that developed in the next years of the bike being used would become your problem. It's simply not worth the hassle for the money.
We do do PX, but only on kids bikes which we've sold from new.
Friendly & approachable staff who should learn your name after a few visits, remember your bike and issues which you've had with it
All the staff should have a 'can do' attitude. if not, sack 'em
Get involved with the local bike clubs - maybe offer members a 10% to 15% discount
My local shop provides spares to the club which can be bought at club meetings cheaper than in the shop. Consumables like chains, cables, mechs, pedals, oil and cleaning products. Its a really handy service, and i use the same shop for 90% of my other purchases
Non-OEM brake pads - i hate paying £20 for shimano pads
Weekend opening is a must
Ideally, you want to be open from 8am to at least 6pm during the week
A good mix of brands and prices
A good range of demo bikes covering all disciplines of riding to suit your clientele
Coffee section - not sure about that. Maybe offering a coffee to regulars would be nice
Sell copies of STW on the counter
Openness to people who have bought bikes elsewhere - don't criticise their choice - fix it, look after them, maybe loan them one of your demos when their's is being fixed - they'll probably buy the next from you
Take your customer's number and use the database rather than constantly requesting their details.
A good selection of clothing
A big door which is easy to get bikes in and somewhere near the door to store customer bikes when they visit
mid-week rides, and if your riders are skillful enough, offer subtle coaching to your customers
I like the idea of a hot woman working their - it'd draw me back!!
Good luck mate and annouce it on STW when you open up - i might come for a gander 😀
Isa this the STWers kind of bike shop? Found a niche in edinburghs crowded marketplace but I bet they don't last long. Close to two good conventional bike shops
Simple. I want to walk into a bike shop and meet staff who give a shit. Not greasy sales types. Actual riders. A real workshop I can see - with dirt. I want to talk to the mechanic. No bullshit. And if you say you'll call me back you do. And when you say you'll order my a part you actually do and don't just chuck the piece of paper in the bin once I've left. Reasonable prices and good customer service. Works every time.
a tight workshop...
....this is the "engine" of your bike shop
a good workshop manager can make / break your bike shop, alongside a good shop manager with an eye on the "profits", not 'giving it all away for free'
this is my workshop, and I run a tight ship
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Half of us want sofas to sit on and drink coffee, half of us don't.
I suggest a secret sofa area where your regulars can sit and chat about bikes without intimidating the other customers, perhaps a revolving wall panel activated by pulling a lever?
Just an idea.
Choose your clientèle:
Commuters : good range of racks, panniers/briefcases and clothing. Lights and usual consumables.
Kids : Get a quality BMX brand (Kink, WTP) and some bling parts. Stock at least one quality 20" frame and 24". I'd also get a 12". Stock Hamax or Rhode Gear kids seats.
Ordinary bikes: Nothing wrong with a quality town bike : Dawes? Raleigh.
Try a niche? Tandem? Brompton? Airnimal? Moulton? Pashley?
All this keeps me interested. The Road and MTB stuff is nice but well-done in most places, but real bikes for real transport are what makes shops interesting for me.
Try and stock some kids bikes and clothing, if you could stock Isla bikes? or similar i think people would travel to buy, I've found it difficult in the past to buy 'simple' kids cycle clothing, eg....leggings and jackets. If dads buying stuff he will inevitably have a child that has an interest in cycling and will want some gear.
Good parking, good accesss and a good workshop with knowledgable staff and you've cracked it! Good luck.
Staff who will sell you the bike you really need not the bike they think you need. That means listening to the customer and giving credence to their opinion.
Too many shop monkeys think they know whats best. Perhaps they do from a technical standpoint but it's the customer who knows what the bike will be used for.
Hi mate glad to see there's a shop opening locally sounds like its going to be good this is my email address if you need any help with fit out etc colin.prior1@ntlworld.com.Cheers Colin
the first thing i'd do is avoid all the above looking for a nut for an x y z that say they only go to thier lbs.. its theoretical bollocks..
stick to what you make money on and only get enough of it so you dont make a loss..
all those saying clothing.. dont even think about it go for one range 3 sizes two of each.. coffee shop? thought it was bike shop not somewhere for folks to hang out when its raining FOC..?
the best sellers are for a reason everyone buys em so sure the niche stuff is cute cool etc but does it drive customers profits etc..
my lbs is exactly as it should be knowledge and honest about bikes stocks 3 brands know all the local routes have ride outs limited evrything but what they have is decent gear at a fair price oh and you have to open 7 days a week early till late .. esp summer and december in fatc never close in december you ll do 25% of year sales then..
If you're going down the coffee and a sit down route check out this bike shop http://www.lakelandpedlar.co.uk.
What I want from an lbs is a really good mechanic, including wheel building skills, lots of clothing, shoes and helmets to try on, and at least try to knock a little off rrp, even if it's through some kind of loyalty scheme.
Aside from this I reckon cheap bikes and kids bikes with the odd bit of serious kit.
Oh, and offer proper demos.
Getting involved in the community side of things can't hurt either.
Good mechanic - not some yoof who doesn't give a toss
Pay them well, so you keep them too
Tyres, pads and lights, good midrange stuff
Clothing wise, whatever you do , just do lots of it
Not just the odd bit here and there
Kids bikes, get a rep for doing good kids bikes and you build
Lots of future loyalty, kids bikes offer smaller profit than niche/high end
But parents will buy kids new bikes as they move from 20-24-26 wheel sizes
Repeat custom & potential spanner ing
In these cash strapped times I also reckon more focus on the mid range bikes and being a bit less
Dismissive of these is a winner eg giant trance x2/3
Interest free credit would be a bonus too
Good luck 😉
Consumables at decent prices.
As someone who's worked in LBS's for a few years, I'd say be careful what you stock.
Don't buy things from distributors because they are on a deal- no one else is buying them for a reason. Also never buy too much of anything, regardless of how good it is because you will end up sat on it. Buy the next big thing, not old stock.
Buy staples that people like- cheap, simple, black Endura jerseys like the Cairn etc. Don't buy them in daft colours like that mint green they're doing just now and don't buy in team kits. Be careful with stuff with hundreds of options- chain devices is the best example I can think of because whichever size and model you stock it'll be wrong. You'll have ISCG05 in 34T, they'll need ISCG Old in 36T.
And be careful with shoes too- don't buy a new brand to shoes like Bontrager. People are wary of them- pick 3 models of shoe (cheap, mid, expensive) and always have the most popular in stock. While I mention Bontrager- don't get in kit that is linked to a manufacturer as it dramatically decreases your market IME. Trek riders and the small percentage that aren't brand led will wear it, no one else will.
Once it's old stock get rid of it. Don't sit there with it with only 15% off for 2 years because once it's old it will only lose value and you won't get any money for it, rather than getting rid of it for a smaller hit straight away.
Don't stock brands such as Merida, Orbea, Felt etc- they look like you're scraping the barrel and the other shops got the good brands. And yes the £300 cheapies will be the ones you sell most of, but don't be afraid to stock something half decent too.
I don't go in for all this coffee nonsense. You're a bike shop, unless you're going to really dedicate it like the Lakeland Pedlar it's just going to be a daft side show.
Right, haven't read the entire thread so don't know if these has been mentioned. But...
I'd have staff that respect any level of knowledge in the punters. Nothings winds me up more than being made to feel stupid if I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of what I'm asking about.
This however is the second issue to having a great notice board. Make it a prominent thing that people go in for to meet people, organise rides, share routes, share meets etc. Really the best thing that can be done.
just my two penneth!
Cow
It might already be above, but room inside for people to bring their bikes in, and a sign on the door encouraging it.
If I'm browsing I don't want to have to keep one eye on the scrotes outside.
esher that workshop is sweet man good work.
Mechanics should be fixing bikes not doing a half job then a bit of sales then back to fixing bikes forgeting what they were doing.When do you ever see car mechanics working in the sales department?
Don't whatever you do hire..........
x
y
and z
Better not, forget I said that.
Seriously...chase down references for people you are going to take on as staff....there are some bloody nightmares out there who will cock everything up, upset customers and ruin your business.
Thinking about it, there are a few bike shop owners like that and all...... But they are entitled to behave that way because they own the business.....
Keep the shop visualy interesting but don't go and shell out loads of dosh on a Titanium this and that frame or sundry other stuff you cannot shift. A blue Pig frame hanging up will create more interest than a Lynskey and it won't cost you so much to hang it there. You will sell Joysticks, you won't sell so many Max Daddies.
Keep your Full Sus fleet down to Demo models if you can and sell off the back of that while making a bit on day rentals for hiring those out.
And make sure you keep repair customers in the loop and on side. Best to tell them the truth up front at point of contact than slide them into a £300 repair by a series of fumbling findings of extra things wrong with their bike.
Good luck