[Closed] New Hummer so there WAS a problem then ?

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rickos t'wood make me cry all over again to share pics of a gouge in a frame like that .just getting over the £300 i had to give litespeed !!!and it was 2 years ago !!!

Dont know how you broke it anyhow, only ever see you riding to cafe's on the levels to see the nice lady and her lovely............. cakes?

AC

Bit like the backend of the PACE RC303 being "redesigned" after a year. Of course chainsuck has nowt to do with the frame, oh no.

I have a suspicion it has more to do with the fact that new Hummers are built by Lynskey, and the new chainstay that they helped design for certain other Ti hardtail frames.

Nickc- I think its abit of both...

Sorry fellas but I still say frame design has bugger all to do with causing chain suck. How can a frame cause a chain to catch and stick onto a chainring tooth and wrap itself around?

how your frame copes with chainsuck is 100% due to design but not the cause of it.

Donk - never had a problem with chainsuck pre-PACE, never had a problem post-PACE. Had brand new chain, chainrings, cassette, cables - with PACE - major chain suck.

Dodgy design on the chain stays will cause chain suck if there's not enough clearance between the stays and the rings, or even the wrong angles.

My hummer ('05 model i think it is) was/is badly damaged by chainsuck. I didn't need a redesigned frame to tell me that.

I thought they redesigned it immediately the year after anyway?

Dodgy design on the chain stays will cause chain suck if there's not enough clearance between the stays and the rings, or even the wrong angles.

No sorry steve chainstays don't cause the chainsuck, the chain not "letting go" of the chainring causes chain suck, the stays being close to the rings causes chainsuck to **** up your frame. The stays don't touch the chain until after chainsuck has occured.

Thing is it's splitting hairs, this is clearly a problem for owners of 2007's "BEST FRAME EVER MADE" and other frames don't suffer as badly so why did it take Cove so long to sort it out?*

*probably because they are a pretty average bike co and not the world leading hard-core-niche-tastic entity the fanboys would like us to believe.

Or they just thought FFS sort your drive-train out so you don't get chainsuck in the first place you muppets, then you won't damage the frame.

😉

Donk - Nice pedantry, but it's not a helpful distinction in practical terms. After all, unless it's bad enough to actually double-wrap or rip out the mech, chainsuck itself isn't a problem at all, is it?

I'd guess that a very poorly designed or executed frame might have a shitty chainline OR STAYS THAT GET TOO CLOSE TO THE RINGS, especially if it's attempting to be a "big tyre" frame like, say, err ...

(If I ever went for a custom frame I think it'd have a wide BB (83?) and 150mm rear hub to leave more room for tyres/stays/sucking chain etc)

So maybe we were on to something and maybe Cove didn't want to admit it to us ?

Or just as likely, it's chicken and egg, with buyers losing confidence in the frame so they had to redesign it anyway. See the new crop of through-axle forks for another possible example.

Had brand new chain, chainrings, cassette, cables - with PACE - major chain suck.

But I still rode it around without getting it sorted and it damaged the frame so it's the frame builders fault ❓

Chainsuck is not inevitable - there's something wrong with the drive-train

Chainsuck is not inevitable - there's something wrong with the drive-train

I'm not so sure James. Definitely more likely the longer you run a chainring but even on a standard set-up that's not brand new & with the addition of a couple of hours worth of mud/grit, I think it just might be inevitable (by Donk's definition). What really differs is how the frame interacts with it.

I *know* it's not a maintenance issue because I harldy ever see it and I'm definitely not a big fettler

Mr C don't very often see you round these parts ?

So, what exactly was i supposed to do apart from ride my bike? Not riding it to prevent chainsuck happening seems like an odd solution. Changed the chainrings, tried different brands including unramped ones, tried changing the offset on the BB, changed, fettled as much as a person could reasonably do, still chainsuck.

With my Orange P7, chucked everything on, not a problem.

where's my post gone ?
too inflammatory ?

So, what exactly was i supposed to do apart from ride my bike?

scardypants is right of course, mud & grit can cause issues. If things are so caked on the drivetrain it doesn't work that counts as something wrong in my book. Happens to me too but not enough to want to tell everyone and I definitely wouldn't describe it as "dreadful" or "major chain suck" and want to start looking for someone, anyone to blame

scardypants:
You may not be a fettler but I bet you have a decent drivetrain that's correctly installed - go on tell me you don't! That's why you hardly ever see chainsuck and you hardly ever damage your frame too. Chainline is dictated by the drive-chain and if the stays are so close you can't fit the chain between them and the rings, wouldn't that lessen the damage?

I had an '03 Hummer with RF Turbine cranks and rings with an ISIS BB. I had bad chainsuck problems but fortunately it never gouged the frame too badly. Two years ago I had all the bits transferred to a steel Inbred frame, in bare metal, fortunately, 'cos I [i]still[/i] get chainsuck problems with the chain jamming between ring and stay. Perhaps the 'crap design' of the Hummer was inherited by the Inbred. No, wait, they're designed by two completely different people! The problem obviously lays with the design of the rings and RF ones seem to be prone to it. Also the fact that the cranks are set close to the BB just exacerbates the issue. Low 'Q' factor, I believe it's called. Using outboard bearing BB's obviously stops the problem, but I guess different rings would help.

hmmmm - all self-installed, none of that facing lark etc

I think one point in my favour is 2 FS bikes with either raised stays or a very "shaped" swingarm. My hardtail is mid-90s and not built to accommodate wide tyres.

Guess what: WHen I did experience chainsuck it was on a COVE stiffee but I don't ride that much, and rarely in the wet as that's my pissing about bike & too small to XC.

Chainrings close to stays, I'd say, is THE major risk factor - the amount of force (even I can) produced at the cranks will easily ram the chain into a small gap, taking bits of chainstay with it.

this is why :

it's all due to the limited clearance the stay has with the chainrings, consequent to trying to design stays able to provide wide tyre clearance.

This chap seems to have done a fair bit of work to understand the problem.
http://fagan.co.za/Bikes/Csuck/

OMG, The Chain Suck Pit looks like a diagram of the inside of a cow!

Donk - Nice pedantry, but it's not a helpful distinction in practical terms

And yes chainsuck without damage is still bad when honking out of the saddle, I've had it a couple of times and it's not nice - FS frame with plenty of stay clearance so no damage to frame but chain wraps round and jams throwing me forward and sometimes off.

IME chainsuck is mainly caused by lack of lube and/or slightly damaged chainring teeth, which lube and a little filing will normally sort.

my hummer frame suffered from the worst chainsuck I have ever encountered. Paid 1400 quid for it from leasure-lakes.

happy days

Can someone please explain how Chainsuck can be caused by a frame ?
AFAIK chainsuck is the chain getting caught up in the rings as a result of crud or worn chainringing teeth. If the frame is straight and the chainline is correct..how can chainsuck be blamed on the frame?
could someone please enlighten me?

kaiser, i have no idea, just my experience suggests at least an influence somehow.

Kaiser, to reiterate from above:

"the chain not "letting go" of the chainring causes chain suck, the stays being close to the rings causes chainsuck to **** up your frame. The stays don't touch the chain until after chainsuck has occured"

"I'd guess that a very poorly designed or executed frame might have a shitty chainline OR STAYS THAT GET TOO CLOSE TO THE RINGS, especially if it's attempting to be a "big tyre" frame like, say, err ..."