[Closed] New Heckler. You'll never guess what's happened to the wheels.

can someone wake me up when all this nonsense has finished?

To be honest, its more the triple on an AM bike. I have the Deore brakes and think they are ace!

Well I'm glad I didn't wait any longer to get my heckler now.
Got to admit to being fed up with having 650b pretty much forced upon us. 🙄

26er is officially dead.......

$1400 in the States / Canada for the frame, and 1400 pounds in the UK? You guys should boycott buying bikes until distribution channels stop taking the pish!

I thought it was £1199 in the uk?

£1199 is still over priced

Especially now you have to get new wheels to go with your shiny new frame 😐

to be confirmed but i predict around the £1400 mark..

I'm not naming the shop as they'll just be selling at the retail price. Either way, anything over a grand is silly money for a few welded bits of aluminium and a shock.

I'm not naming the shop as they'll just be selling at the retail price. Either way, anything over a grand is silly money for a few welded bits of aluminium and a shock.

Agreed. Especially when you can get an awesome complete such as a Scott Voltage for about £1200.

It does seem expensive given that the early 'new' Hecklers were a smidge under a grand.

Unfortunately, it does seem to be the going rate these days and that's about what I paid for my Banshee (although I got some money off). I don't think it helps that the likes of Specialized have moved away from offering reasonably priced frames.

$1400 in the States / Canada for the frame, and 1400 pounds in the UK? You guys should boycott buying bikes until distribution channels stop taking the pish!

+ 1000000
SC are the worst, and whilst I'm a bit of a fanboy they really don't represent VFM.

If you run 2.4/2.5" 26" tyres your almost running 650b/27.5" anyway... i.e. 2.4" Rubber Queens are bigger than most 2.2" 650b/27.5" tyres

I do wonder if the confident move to 650b here is because SC have tested this bike with 26 inch wheels and know that will happily with run either size wheels

DoSC sell more bikes or frames? Changing wheel standards for buying a bike seems irrelevant, you get everything you need. It sframe buyers who a more likely to revolt if they can't use their old wheels and forks

I agree SC frames are extortionate over here - even second hand! That's why I was so smug picking up a mint s/h one in the states for £330 8)

£330 I paid £250 delivered for a like new Heckler. You were robbed.

Please would someone explain to me, that when a real player in the industry makes a deliberate move to update it's range, ( a range that is, in all fairness, a very popular one - who mentioned earlier that nearly all his riding buddies ride Santa Cruz bikes?) and not just with new colours and a few little tweaks. They have brought out 2 new bikes and redesigned their core product ( Orange and 5 anyone?), and all 3 are designed with the 650B wheel size as their primary focus.

And there are still, yes still, people on this forum who are suggesting that the 650B will die a death and it'll never catch on! Do what?!

Not only Santa Cruz, Scott, Orange, Cube, Turner etc etc....

Think about the cost of getting one new bike to market. Development, prototypes, redesign, manufacturing, ensuring that the component manufacturers are going to be able to supply their own tested and evaluated products. The investment involved by all these companies and people is eye watering.

Furthermore, many of the 650B bikes that have been launched are not first time purchases, they are being targeted at people who know a bit about their chosen hobby/sport/pastime and are prepared to invest time and money into it. An educated market.

I would say that's quite a risk. They must be pretty sure that these bikes will be an improvement over those that have been thus far, otherwise, they are set to lose a lot of money and may well put some of them out of business completely. That would certainly reduce choices for the keen mtb'er.

I don't believe the industry can afford for the 650B move to fail. The global economy is stretched, money and credit is not as available as it has been. It could be suggested that the industry has invested in itself to try to stimulate demand and growth. Better than introducing cuts wouldn't you say?

How about a change of attitude from the skeptic's? How about giving change a go? What is there to be afraid of? What is the worst that could happen? ( and please, no more with the "I won't be able to get pucker bits for my 26er in a few years..." Of course you will ).

Attitude is everything and we make our own world. 😀

Have you read this?
http://www.bikemag.com/gear/exclusive-video-bronson-santa-cruzs-new-650b-trail-bike/

Interesting link, thanks Simon 🙂

I'll gladly modify my spiel on whether they are an improvement! And to one that suggests the market wants it to be an improvement!

Is there any point in making the NOAMD 650b ? is that segment in the market not filled with the recent intro of the BRONSON ?

Like wise the SOLO ? why buy a SUPERLIGHT or BLUR in 650b when you can have the other ?

Orange have done the 5, Santa Cruz has now done the HECKLER, When and If the NOMAD goes 650b surely the V10 will get the same treatment ?

This is a stroke of genius by the marketeers at SC. They spend the next few years getting everyone to upgrade to 650b, then, it doesn't take a genius to see what's coming next, they bring out a new and improved wheel size.... 29"! Why go jump to 29" wheels in one step, when you can do it in two and sell twice as many bikes. They're not daft these marketing men at SC. far more clever at those other manufacturers who want us to jump to 29" straight away 😉

It's not santa cruz' doing. The MTB industry have effectively formed a cartel and decided that its going to make 650b. That's it. There's nothing us consumers (particularly in the uk) can do about it. Personally, I think it'll damage the industry in the short run. We know that there's next to no difference between 26 and 650b, so relatively high end customers are going to skip the frame upgrade we may have been considering and ride our bikes until they're at the end of their lives so that we don't have to run out and buy new forks and wheels. I know that's my plan. Ill still be able to service and repair my wheels and forks (spares are mainly common so wont disappear) so as long as I don't snap anything, I should be good for a good while. That's missed sales for the manufacturers.
I am aware that when I do need a new bike, the likelihood is that it'll have to be a 650b.

Simon that's a great link

I just wish the video ended with the interviewer saying

"If you can't tell the difference then why did you change it so I need new wheels and Fork..."

I just wish the video ended with the interviewer saying

"If you can't tell the difference then why did you change it so I need new wheels and Fork..."

The article kinda did with SC saying they were receiving loads of calls and emails asking for it.

brakes..............

+1

Having just chopped in a HT and a 5 for a blingy Soul I reckon one of those new Hecklers could join it next year 🙂

If that link does not make you think that the marketing guys are taking us for a ride I don't know what does?

Slackalice

I'm happy that they made it because people wanted it. However I think that they could have done with acknowledging why people are concerned

Maybe ampthill, I do see your point, it would be wise for the industry to then try to allay the fears you have. Although that might not help them sell the new bikes into which so much time and investment has been made.

As I suggested earlier, I am thankful that the industry has gone down this route rather than cutting back.

Slackalice

personally I'll be fine. I've had a mountain bikes for 25 years plus and I'm on my 5th. The high initial turnover was down to theft. I'll ride my FS into the ground and replace the whole thing.

But I do see the where the swappers are coming from

John

ampthill - Member

I'm happy that they made it because people wanted it.

I'm not... Can't blame Santa Cruz but their boy hits the nail on the head, people want it but they don't know why. Most of the pressure for them to make a 650B bike came from people that had never ridden one. So sure, it's customer led in that sense but obviously the customers didn't end up pointing in that direction naturally, this is 100% a hype-led thing not an experience-led thing.

Some bike companies make the best bikes they can, and hope to sell them. Others make the most sellable bikes they can. Can't blame anyone for choosing the second camp but I'm glad most of my lot came from the former.

$1400 in the States / Canada for the frame, and 1400 pounds in the UK? You guys should boycott buying bikes until distribution channels stop taking the pish!
+ 1000000
SC are the worst, and whilst I'm a bit of a fanboy they really don't represent VFM.

Ampthill, like you I have also been riding mountain bikes since the mid 80's and also share the same philosophy of riding my bikes until they wear out. I've just replaced my 13 year old SC Superlight, with.... A 650B PYGA. My reason being, I wanted to try something different.

We are the same chap! We love riding our bikes! 😀

You forget that the £ is worthless, US prices generally have no sales tax quoted there is import duty and 20% VAT added to anything, but apart from that the distributor must be raking it in

It seems to me like the industry has noticed that lots of people have been talking about wanting 650b bikes and obviously they want to sell more bikes.

But I'd still like to know what proportion of mountain bikers have asked for 650b. If 10% of bikers use forums and 20% of them like or want 650b then that equates to 2% of mtbers overall but an apparent 20% of observed mtbers if you look at the numbers of internet evangelists.

Out of all of the mtbers I know not a single one is remotely interested in 650b, and I'm the only one out of >20 frequent riding mates to own a 29er.

I'm looking to replace my 2005 Heckler frame but I can't afford new wheels, tyres and a fork as well, let alone a whole new bike, especially as the riding benefits, if any, will be all but invisible. So I'm not going to bother, I'm going to wait a few more years and see what happens. Along with almost everyone else I know.

wow...the 2013 heckler ...26" with new geo..was just a few months on the market now...not even a year..
http://www.santacruzbikes.co.uk/heckler

^hopefully this'll mean there's a few bargains to be had on used hecklers when everyone panics and switches to 650b 🙂 I've always wanted a Heckler since riding my Bullit, seems pretty much the same but a bit lighter and shorter travel.

Interesting video from Bikemag "Why do people care so much about this change?"

I'll tell you why people care Mr Graney. They care because if like me they have had a heckler for the past 6 years and fancy (or are forced into) to change then they could simply buy a new frame to go with all their expensive components. But now if you want to buy new you are going to have to shell out about £750 on new forks and a load more on rims and tyres.

Now as my wife will attest to I am not averse to spending money on my bike and if I think It will suit my riding and genuinely offer a performance benefit then I will happily shell out (In fact i've chosen to do just that and eagerly await the arrival of my XX1 drive train). I do however resent the implication that I am a "hater" for questioning the necessity of this 'new' standard, whilst in the same breath being told that the performance benefits are marginal. This just strikes me as the fairly arrogant attitude of a man who has had the luxury of free bikes and not spending his own hard earned money on them recently. If there is a clear difference then fair enough but you have just said "we built them both and they were both great"

27.5 and 29ers: A sure sign of a bike industry that has run out of fresh ideas to sell new bikes.

Why can't they put they're efforts into developing something properly useful and innovative like an affordable gearbox unit?

Why can't they put they're efforts into developing something properly useful and innovative like an affordable gearbox unit?

My thoughts exactly. 27.5 and 29ers are money for old rope. It doesn't bring anything to the sport that helps it evolve.

Yes there may be a benefit for racing, but only while we have a mixture of wheel sizes (if there is any actual, quantifiable benefit). Once all racers are on the same wheel size then there will be no advantage whatsoever. And that goes for racing your mates on your weekend outings.

People moan about FS reducing people skills, 29ers will have the same effect.

I'll tell you why people care Mr Graney. They care because if like me they have had a heckler for the past 6 years and fancy (or are forced into) to change then they could simply buy a new frame to go with all their expensive components.

What about the people with older short travel bikes, should SC not go back to producing the original 4" heckler as 'people still have the bits' that wont fit the long travel bolt through versions? Should all manufacturers be forced to continue making models to old standards or designs to ensure existing customers have something to buy in the future?

There are plenty of bikes out there for you to buy, just because a brand has decided to discontinue a model (which is what they have effectively done) dont get all upset.

if they only decided to discontinue a model...
why is Mr Graney so upset then...?

[i]Deore on a Heckers???[/i]

Heckler is an entry level bike as far as SC is concerned

[i]I'd assume a 650b Chammy is on the way which would be very tempting.

Edit: ... and carbon too please Mr Royksopp.[/i]

I wouldn't hold your breath. when I asked about a carbon Cham I was told that they see the Cham as (like the Heckler) an entry to other bikes, and they wouldn't do a carbon version as they see the Cham as all about the "value"

26" for value bikes, and long travel gravity bikes

650b for intermediate FS 120mm-160mm

29" for XC hardtail and FS sub 120mm

Is how it will be from now on

I was told that they see the Cham as (like the Heckler) an entry to other bikes, and they wouldn't do a carbon version as they see the Cham as all about the "value"

Really? I think they've got this wrong. The Cham has been an awesome hardtail for many years. To see it as entry to the 'suspension' bikes is an oversite IMO.

A carbon Cham would be brilliant and perhaps a [s]little[/s] lot more forgiving. 🙂