[Closed] New Forest National Park Authority - latest anti-cycling nonsense

I'd hate 1000's of cyclists in my local area too so I kind of sympathise but I wouldn't be vindictive about it. I expect some of the riders are as pig headed as the locals though

Just been approved 17 for 3 members against.

I live and work here, just to re-iterate we're not all rich and/or anti-cycling (a vocal minority are) and many of us within have been opposing this charter as it is. The question to be asked is why the inequality/discrimination i.e. only cyclists and not include all things that cause (minor) inconvenience to residents like running events, the round ups, Boxing Day point to point, New Forest Show, events at Beaulieu, grockles, retired people in Honda Jazz or Hyundai automatics etc etc

Big Bike Bash happens all on a private site causes inconvenience to no-one, but the reputation NFNPA are getting will have an impact on local economy, our business relies on visitors and we'll suffer

As I have said before, just keep on driving past the New Forest and go somewhere with better riding (really not hard) and not run by psychopaths.

Have to disagree, I think it's all the more reason to ride there, just to stick up two fingers at them

I'd make damn sure to take sandwiches and a thermos flask rather than spend money in local businesses like I do anywhere else though.

Have to disagree, I think it's all the more reason to ride there, just to stick up two fingers at them

I'd make damn sure to take sandwiches and a thermos flask rather than spend money in local businesses like I do anywhere else though.

I've also come round to this view - though maybe I'd throw Avontyrrel a few of my grockle pennies as he seems like a nice chap.

I don't have a problem with the 1000 limit. The best sportives I've done were the small to medium sized ones. The guys putting on the mass participation versions that the New Forest (and other areas) have had land on them are just profiteering - they are not putting 4000+ riders out there because they love cyclists and have your interests at heart but because they love your money.

Riding a bike, doing time trials and other events in the forest was no biggie for decades until recently and imho it will be great when it settles down again. To not at least try and comprehend why some locals struggle with profit making companies using the public highway for personal gain is to be as pigheaded as some of the locals. You've got put away your pro cycling blinkers and look at it objectively. This is not a pro/anti cycle thing, it's about the company running these events. Personally I think they are taking you all for suckers.

I'd hate 1000's of cyclists in my local area too so I kind of sympathise

This.

Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view cycling has taken off in a big way in this country and where once the New Forest was somewhere nice and quiet for everybody to enjoy, these days the summer weekends are an overcrowded mess of everybody trying to 'enjoy' the countryside....its not just cyclists, its ramblers, picnic-ers (if thats a word!), people wanting space to BBQ, motorcyclists etc etc....

...part of the problem is that as a nation we have become too London-centric and everything seems to revolve around the South East (which is by and large a shit-hole lets be honest)....if people used their imagination and branched out a little further they would be able to enjoy whatever outdoor activity they wanted and with little impact on the environment and without having to compete for space with everybody else who had the same idea that weekend.

Organisers of these Sportives have to take some of the blame....1000 riders in one event?!...i'd be annoyed if that was going on outside my house every weekend through the summer too.
As cyclists we have this wonderfully pious view of the world where we can do no wrong because our hobby is healthy and non polluting but not everybody enjoys cycling....i like killing things with a shotgun but i absolutely accept that others dont so i wouldnt ram it down people's throats and get all militant about it if i couldnt do it in a particular area.

To be fair if the only time you cycle to the New Forest is in a Sportive where you need 1000 other riders to hold your hand then you probably should give yourself a talking to....ride by yourself or go with a small group, you'll probably enjoy it more and you'll certainly ruffle far fewer feathers too.

re. the 'landed gentry' comments....behave yourselves, this isnt a sixth form common room, plenty of property in the New Forest is affordable, not everybody lives there in gated mansions...it was only a few years ago the other half and i were looking at moving there (budget circa 200k) and there were loads of properties at reasonable prices as there is very little work locally....ditto for loads of places in rural UK that the blissfully ignorant think you need to be a millionaire to live there.

Are they really that big? 4000+ on open road sportives is taking the piss, IMO.

Just been approved 17 for 3 members against.

the reputation NFNPA are getting will have an impact on local economy, our business relies on visitors and we'll suffer

If they don't represent the interests of locals, more locals need to get involved really. If NF residents who object to this sort of rule don't make themselves heard, they can't really be too surprised when tourists go elsewhere.

This is not a pro/anti cycle thing, it's about the companies running these events. Personally I think they are taking you all for suckers.

There's a much more important issue at stake here than whether sportives are good value.

🙄

Are they really that big? 4000+ on open road sportives is taking the piss, IMO.

They have 16000 at the Ronde sportive and people don't scatter tacks or try to legislate to keep the numbers down. Oddly they view it as a celebration of their area and an excuse to show off what their towns and villages have to outsiders. Strange foreign types eh?

chipsngravy - Member
Big Bike Bash (and all other cycle events that take place in the New Forest) should be looking for an alternative venue.

Big Bike Bash is on private land! Hence it's no issue!

It's only the UK Cycling events that this charter has any reference to. There are other sportives in the New Forest that have under 1000 riders, and will continue as they have done for years.

Owner of UK Cyling events, Martin Burden, who live a stones throw from the national park boundary, has stated he intends to ignore the charter. This not going to help.

Anyway, as a local, I'm going out tonight for a ride in the New Forest, as I do 2-3 times every week.

martinhutch - Member

Are they really that big? 4000+ on open road sportives is taking the piss, IMO.

and how many cars use the NF roads on a daily basis?

i'm attempting to sort out an entry for the 'ardechoise' - a cycling event in france, it'll host something like 16 THOUSAND cyclists.

maybe I'd throw Avontyrrel a few of my grockle pennies as he seems like a nice chap.

www.avontyrrell.org.uk - and it a charity!

And home of the big bike bash!

www.bigbikebash.co.uk

^ agree with the money making side, that's what the big events are about, never quite understood why someone would want to line an organiser's pockets to ride on public roads when you can do it for free, whenever you want. The big UKCE/Wiggle rides have caused this rise in feelings for some influential locals, it was alright a few years back

never quite understood why someone would want to line an organiser's pockets to ride on public roads when you can do it for free

Surely you can make that comment about a lot of outdoor activities, even some of yours.

Some (but not all) of the requirements seem pretty reasonable.

This is the only user group who has limits on numbers and the "number plate" thing is more stringent than motor bike regs. Picking on cyclists (again) coz an influential minority of new forest residents don't like them.

^ true, point taken atlaz, maybe I'm just a tight arse

Are they really that big? 4000+ on open road sportives is taking the piss, IMO.

OK that's a fair number of cyclists but still way off "4000 lycralouts charging down our roads!" I wonder what the car stats are...

they are not putting 4000+ riders out there because they love cyclists

is this number made up? i thought the events were about 1500 (saturday & sunday)

they are not putting 4000+ riders out there because they love cyclists
is this number made up? i thought the events were about 1500 (saturday & sunday)

I seem to remember it was 2000 each day last year...

I'm not stopping going there, in fact I've just come back from a 70k lick around it.

I love the place, it's quiet (if you know where to go) and very beautiful.

I see their point, 1000+ cyclists (or anything including horse riders, cars, motorbikes, shoppers, kids on scooters etc. etc. ) would piss me right off too.

Therefore I think it's a reasonable ask to limit any sportive to under 1000 (or any mass participation event)

VAMO.

I like the number plate idea, gives you a clear way to ID the nobbers at these events who litter the route with their energy gel wrappers...if you can get a photo you could then follow it up and fine the riders responsible or the charge the organisers instead.

(those large european sportives are usually once a year are they not?....16,000 people once a year isnt too bad and with those numbers i should imagine the tourist industry in the area booms for the week/weekend....with the New Forest its close enough to London, Southampton etc that people come just for the sportive and leave again right afterwrds without really putting anything into the local economy....and the events arent a one-off, Wiggle alone put on 3 or 4 each summer in the New Forest!)

and the "number plate" thing is more stringent than motor bike regs

I don't believe they've said what format the numbers have to be either 😈

I've sent them NFNPA a complaint about this decision and asking for some background as to what criteria were used to create this new charter and have had a response saying that they're going to FIA my request and get back to me.
Not necessarily the best use of public money but maybe it'll start to get through to these people that NIMBYism works only for a short time, and usually ends up hurting those its supposed to protect.

New Forest is affordable, not everybody lives there in gated mansions...it was only a few years ago the other half and i were looking at moving there (budget circa 200k)

Try looking on rightmove with that budget now - let me know what you find as I would love to move out of southampton

I ride there a lot as well. It is lovely, and for the large part the roads are in good condition and plenty wide enough for cars and bikes. Ornamental drive is probably still my favourite bit of road. There are even one or two decent short sharp climbs if you know where to look. I think Blissford is a 1in25

These sportives really aren't that often are they? And why don't the ones in the South Downs etc... get the same level of negativity? The roads there are often worse condition / narrower / higher hedges.

Only once in all my years riding there have I startled a pony which I hadn't seen. 99.99999% of the time they just ignore you and keep eating. Even if there was a collision between a cyclist and a horse I think it would be the cyclist who'd come off worse by a long way.

clear way to ID

I went to the New Forest for a day in August, drove round the whole thing and, other than going for a bike ride and a little walk, I didn't really see anything to do.

Deviant, as ever, is completely oblivious to the facts and the point. Probably a troll.

Who exactly is trying to get somewhere in such a hurry in the New Forest anyway? Sit behind the cyclists, drive nice and slowly, look at the trees and the ponies and have a nice relaxing time. It's not like you've got 100,000 people a day commuting through it.

Big Bike Bash happens all on a private site causes inconvenience to no-one

I beg to differ, the pint to pint race caused me a great deal of inconvenience for at least 2 hours...

I'd be annoyed if that was going on outside my house every weekend through the summer too.

Whilst there seems to be a lot more cycle events in the forest, it is not every weekend and most are nowhere near 1000 riders. The Wiggle sportive is only two weekends a year.

The last Wiggle one came past our house on both days. We weren't inconvenienced in the slightest despite that large number of riders.

As has been stated claims of mass disruption and danger to animals are totally unfounded.

To be honest most people in the forest couldnt care a less about the cycling, i.e. it just doesnt bother them either way. It's just a few nimbys.

Whilst this latest bit of negative PR might keep some people away from the forest, it wont change anything for those that live there. We will keep on riding there all the same and giving a stiff ignoring to the NFNPA and the verderers.

I had a number plate when I did RideLondon. It seemed a reasonable requirement to me. What's the objection?

4.4 Report immediately to the Police any instances of sign removal or tampering, obstacles or hazards placed on roads, [b]or offences committed by other road users including other participants[/b].

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I had a number plate when I did RideLondon. It seemed a reasonable requirement to me. What's the objection?

Cyclists are beyond reproach didnt you know that?....cyclists never do anything wrong, back to cycling school for you mattig so you can be indoctrinated with a prevailing attitude of self righteousness and you too can start wearing a helmet cam on your commute to work, shout 'ooiieee!' at road users that dare to come within 6ft of you and post the footage on your very own Youtube channel for fellow cyclists to work themselves into a lather over.

You're all missing the point arguing about the merits of rider numbers and number plates. It's about the fact that cyclists have been singled out in this way with no reason for doing so, with no evidence. It is the discrimination against cyclists that is the issue, not the content of what has been proposed.

None of the other user groups are singled out in this way, when they have their own set of issues and impacts on the area. This unfairness is the problem. No amount of anecdote on sportive rider numbers really matters - nor the reasonableness of number plates. It is the issue of fairness that needs defending.

It's about the fact that cyclists have been singled out in this way with no reason for doing so, with no evidence. It is the discrimination against cyclists that is the issue, not the content of what has been proposed

This

there is very little work locally....

which is why

you need to be a millionaire to live there.

Property has shot up in the New Forest. There is nothing resembling a house under £270k on the outskirts of Southampton, let alone further into the woods.

Id love to have some dedicated trail path around the NF (like in Moors Valley, but not behind a gated carpark) even if they were flat. Better than cheekys 100% of the time,

New Forest is generally very crowded with narrow roads to boot. Limiting an event to 1,000 people doesn't sound so bad to me. As for discrimination what other large scale event might be planned for the roads there ?

New Forest is generally very crowded with narrow roads to boot.

i respectfully disagree with this - i guess it's an opinion.

As for discrimination what other large scale event might be planned for the roads there ?

too many dog walkers in ground nesting season. (not on the road mind)
new forest show (95000 visitors in 3 days)
horse drive
the hunt
every weekend at beulieu theres a car show. head that way and you'll be stuck behind a procession of vw/ porsche/ muscle cars etc etc.

It's about the fact that cyclists have been singled out in this way with no reason for doing so

This isn't what's happened. Cyclists, as a class, haven't been singled out. Mass participation events with more than 1,000 riders have been singled out.

As for discrimination what other large scale event might be planned for the roads there ?

One of the main points of the objections to the charter are that the cyclists are being asked to show numbers front and rear. If you ride a motorbike on the road you only need one plate. The other thing is that the NFNPA are trying to regulate against people and an event that is on open roads that, has already been stated, can be ridden on anyway. The start and finish is away from the NF boundary to avoid motor traffic in the park, so where are the conficts?

The charter would have been ok if they had just put in the things that were enforceable. They will now find that there are enough people who will go out on the published routes of the sportives just to show how unenforceable the rules are. Not that cyclists can be contrary, or anything. Those local that are anti-cycling see nothing wrong with the sheer volume of motor traffic (I work in and around the forest and there are no go areas during the forest show for nearly a week!) so it is the degree of hypocrisy that is being shown here that is getting on people's nerves.

If you add this to the fact that being a national park brings many benefits for locals (very few development pressures and protection of many things in the forest) the pay back is that it is open for the masses for recreation. If cycling is not recreation then what is?

So the NFNPA have now adopted a charter that none of the cycling organisations or the event organisers have signed up to.

Is it safe therefore to assume that the NFNPA are going to try to enforce their charter? And if they are, then how exactly do they intend, if I am rider number 1001, to stop me riding my bike on the public highway through a National Park?

Sounds like a vigilante's charter to me.

It also does not mean that they all have to have a different number 😉

It also does not mean that they all have to have a different number

I'm Sportiveus! 🙂

1st ever comment, despite being a long time reader

I think part of the fuss over cycling is over Wiggle initially refusing to reorganise an event they'd put on the same day as the pony drift last september - the drift involves all of the ponies being rounded up, and so having a bike event on the same day would be a bit inconvenient

From the latest NFNPA press release quoting the chair Oliver Crossthwaite Eyre:
' The important thing is that these measures should enable all road users to go about their business as usual even when an event is taking place.' underlining the point about discrimination given that other non-cycling events have an effect on 'business as usual'

Barrington - there were several occasions when the drifts were moved to coincide with event. The drifts were on one date, the event posted the date and then the drift date was moved. The event organisers had tried to co-operate and were met with deliberate obstacles.

To be honest the horse lobby and the cyclists get on pretty well as bith are impacted by the motor vehicle problem. People get of lightly as there were over 100 reported animal deaths on the roads, yet the NFNPA has not tried to restrict speeds or volume of traffic.