dvowles82 - MemberHa.
So I took the 905 hardtail to Afan the other day and did the Wall trail again. I was fully expecting to love it (after a very positive Ashton Court experience) – as it was fun on my Rockhopper previously, so could only be much more so on the 905. To be honest, it didn’t wow me at all. Yes a lot will come down to very average ability on the bike, but the pedal strikes were infuriating. The bottom bracket is so ridiculously low, that even the smallest rock causes clipping. I actually rode the trail better, with far better technique using my rockhopper previously, purely because I could weight the outside pedal/lean bike better on turns, without constant fear of the outside pedal clipping a rock or undulation. The same was true on climbs, having to avoid pedalling on all but the flattest surface underneath, or at least being ultra-careful.
Most telling however, it was the descents that left me wishing I just bought a full suss – firstly because the 905, although different, wasn’t THAT different to my rockhopper in terms of trail feedback/handling/fun and secondly because I would have loved a bit more grip, support and comfort while descending. In other words, I decided the best course of action is going to be to keep the Rockhopper for quick blasts around Ashton Court and larking around and get a separate full suss for bigger trips. Rockhopper has a flexy 100mm fork, narrow bars and a steep head angle, so isn’t ideal, but it will do for milder trails, it’s also nippy as heck.
So…while Bike UK told me previously I could only do a straight swap to another bike, when I went in yesterday, they agreed to give me a full credit note, with no deduction for the numerous scratches, advising I could wait until 2015 bikes released if I so wish. In addition they can also get more brands in than previously thought: -
Marin
Saracen
Orange
WhyteVery relieved and chuffed, and lesson learnt to demo more in future!
Any of the above brands worth exploring for 2014? Marin Mount vision maybe? Or better to wait until 2015 models from all of the above?
that is not the first time I've heard of the Whyte pedal strikes. A chap I was out with last night had his new Whyte and the BB is ridiculously low. He used to ride a Stiffee which he has stupidly given to his son (idiot), and cannot get on with this bike. Riding next to him the BB height is very low, the chainstays even slope downward from the rear axel. It belongs in a skip..
Just to add, I am a keen proponent of low bb's as they give fantastic "rail-ability", but for an everyday trail bike riding rooty or rocky trails, the Whyte is too low. I wouldn't like it, and I'm a biking god 8)
IA - at Ashton court it was when going through a couple of drawn out turns with SLIGHTLY undulating ground beneath. Bike leaned slightly as only a drawn out corner corner, light on the bike, outside pedal down, outside elbow up. And on rock steps in red section with pedals level.
I'm certainly not alone though, when I returned the bike to shop I told them this. The staff member (by all accounts a decent rider) raised his eyebrows and remarked that he found exactly the same on a recent test ride.
outside pedal clipping on corners sounds like a technique issue to me?! or maybe it's line choice?
That said, the MBR review that gave the 905 full marks did mention its pedal clipping low bb as one of it's few downsides. see here
from my limited experience, a hardtail is a hardtail and no matter how good a frame it is, it's never going to feel as smooth as a full sus and the rear wheel will always skip over things that rear sus will keep the tyres grip on.
That feeling of looseness and being on the edge at lesser speeds on lesser trails is what sells them to some people and steers others away.
dvowles82 - have you got a new bike yet?
Of the brands/prices you've mentioned, try out a Saracen Kili Flyer. Really enjoyed it when I got my hands on one!
Just buy and orange five from them and be done with it! Value for money they are not great. But the bike will have you grinning from ear to ear even if you just use it to nip down to the shops for a pint of milk.
No, not yet bought a new bike. Back on the rockhopper pro 2011 at the moment – actually loved the fairly recently extended freeminers trail at FOD last weekend, had a blast. Managed to keep on the tail of my experienced mate on an Orange Alpine 160. This said, despite the dry conditions, the roots and rocky berms did leave me wishing for a full suss (at times).
Had another test ride on the Whyte T129 last night, only at Ashton Court though. To be honest, it did little for me. I missed the responsiveness and feeling of charging/acceleration out of turns that you get with smaller wheels. While it carved drawn out turns at speed beautifully, even falling into line quite sharpish, it seemed to ‘lurch over’, or ‘collapse’ into turns more if that makes sense. It wasn’t a very nice sensation. Worse still, it produced a more constant state of forward momentum and flow, as opposed to the stop-start, bursts of speed and slowing down that I’m more accustomed to. Loads of people will love that, but personally I didn’t. Coming from a more surfing background, perhaps it loosely ties in with that – surfing makes you work very hard for little rewards, full of bursts of speed and slower moments. I appreciate that Ashton Court is relatively tame, but it still gives a good indication. I also threw it down the Super Nova downhill 3 times to get a taste of its descending abilities. Again, not particularly impressed – I found it more fun, controlled and responsive doing so on the whyte 905 and rockhopper previously. I’m sure it would probably be more fun at somewhere like Cymcarn or Afan Y Wal though.
Again, no pedal strikes at Afan, FOD or ashton court on either of the 2 above bikes since riding the 905! The latter really does have a stupidly low BB.
Had considered the Saracen Kili Flyer, but bikeradar review comments on rear suspension really put me off! How did you find it in practice??
Orange 5 – will arrange a test ride.
I'd be inclined to try the G150 - as much as many on STW hate the "Enduro" thing, the fact is that it has been designed as a proper Enduro race bike and this is reflected in its ability to do 50k+ rides with big climbs and descents. yes it will be a bit slower on bigger climbs, but it will be an absolute riot descending, which is where the focus lies.
I'd say try that as well as seeing how you get on with the Marin too - was out with one of the Paligap guys a couple of weeks ago and he was on the fully pimped Mount Vision and it seemed really good.
Don't worry about the whole "overbiked" thing either - from what you have written, it sounds like you are edging towards FS and a bike that can do South Wales etc and take some abuse - a 150mm (ish) bike is bang on for that.
I missed the responsiveness and feeling of charging/acceleration out of turns that you get with smaller wheels. ... Worse still, it produced a more constant state of forward momentum and flow, as opposed to the stop-start, bursts of speed and slowing down that I’m more accustomed to.
You need to spend more time riding in general. Flow is really what you're aiming for, not staccato movements. Stopping and starting is wasting energy in braking and accelerating.
The 29er will be able to carry speed through corners better, as it has more grip, and momentum. You need to learn to trust the front end will grip, and put more weight over it. Once you do this, your speed will go through the roof.
The one thing I bet you're doing, is looking down at the trail in front of you - not ahead, in turns. Which will make you a lot slower, and cause you to brake in turns, not going into turns. Braking is for straight lines, not corners 😉
I agree flow is a good thing and getting a corner just right feels amazing, regardless of the bike. I meant more that personally I think it's more rewarding having a bike which responds (more) positively to bursts of acceleration and quick changes of direction.
As a (presumed fellow) Bristolian, I'm finding it quite hard reading this.
I do all the riding you do, except on a 4+ year old Cotic Soul - complete with those rubbish 26er wheels, 27.2mm static seatpost, 1.1/8 headset etc - y'know...just total rubbish. Man, I need a new bike to solve all my problems. 😉
I think you're placing too much importance on the bike. I've had all sorts of bikes: rigid, bounce, full bounce, all the materials... Doesn't make that much difference, unless you tell yourself that you want it to.
Just enjoy the ride.
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Yeah you're probably right! I do over think things. Will just get on with it and enjoy.
dvowles82 - I am on the same journey as you (if that is any re-assurance) and it has taken me a long time to work out what I want. I think half the fun of buying a bike is doing all the research and talking about it, so I think there is no harm in bouncing your thoughts off of lots of people and trying lots of bikes, and taking a good deal of time doing it.
I have just got back into mountain biking because of FS bikes and cycling at trial parks like Cannock and Swinley Forest (awesome on the T129 - so smooth and fast - although appreciate that isn't your 'feel thing'). Infact, I sold my hardtail this evening and I am very excited to be buying either a T129 works or T129s in the not too distant future.
Models aside I was talking to a guy in my LBS and he wisely said that comfort on a bike also gives you confidence. Confidence tends to make you relax and enjoy things and be more fluid on your ride. Obviously, like some have said you have to watch you don't get over confident and do yourself an accident but I think confidence is king as in most sports, when you tense-up you tend to make mistakes (especially in surfing).
Anyway, thought I would write this post in support of your mission/journey. My thought, for what it is worth, is that you should go full suss. If the 905 had been right for you, I'm not sure you would be on here?! I can't resist saying either, have you thought about the Scott Genius 720 (650b)? I know it is big on the front but has that acceleration, nimble thing you were talking about. Just a thought...
what happened to the tall Whyte BB and "Trail geometry" HT's?
only a year or two ago the 19's (which I thought had the same geo 905) were oft criticised for high BB (zero drop)..
made the bikes feel tall and awkward - I would have happily traded a few pedal strikes for the lower CofG!..
😈 Personally I thought it was because they just stuck a 120 fork on a 100 geo frame "trail Geometry" 😆 trailing stock maybe..
Dude, you think too much. Get drunk more often.
