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Lots of comments about being battered/bad backs etc. Better core strength = less need for FS?
bad backs etc. Better core strength = less need for FS?bad backs etc.
Back injury when I was much younger, but in all respects I prefer my 2 FS bikes for just about everything I do.
Back injury when I was much younger
Understandable then! It wasn't a criticism, just a question really, to see if people thought it made a difference?
I do core strength exercise most night have done for a couple of years, to avoid back ache.. I simply don't trust what the back end of a HT will do when it's get too gets fast & bumpy, I would freely admit to being a wuss.. The FS allow me to still feel in control/confidence and go much much faster than I could on any HT.
kayla1 - Member
Righty-o, I had a blast out on the Stinky this morning and it answered my question insofar as I wouldn't choose to take a FS out for a 'normal' trail ride around here
??? You ride a 5/6" DH bike on your trails and then are going to pronounce that no FS would work well/better on those trails than your current HT? So like all HT are exactly the same? Nice unbiased testing there.
Picked up my first ever FS yesterday. Can't wait to get out for a decent ride.
Nicely taken out of context Z1ppy, did you choose to ignore my disclaimer of "I know it's a world away from more recent (ie lighter!) trail FS stuff" and the fact that (I thought I made it clear from previous post(s) in this thread) my post was only relevant to me and the trails local to me, or are you just a wussy trolling arse?
I only chimed in on this thread because the OP's musings were similar to mine 🙄
just returned from a couple of days in the lake.
so so glad i was on a big bouncy comfy full susser.
but in other easier rolling place, ht is fine. i am looking for a new ht 29er for such a reason.
5 hrs XC today on the HT, on horse hooved then wind dried hard tracks.
Tomorrow morning, there is a good chance you're going to have to use a forklift to get me out of bed! 😉
(not helped by a comedy off on a berm that decided me and my bike were too heavy and hence collapsed completely under me as i railed it. #bloodyknee )
Only you can be the judge of that. Nobody on this forum could tell you what's best for you since its all individual tastes.
Only thing your missing is experiencing what a fs does/feels like etc. But you could say the same for riding a unicycle/road bike etc...
Meant to finish that with you need to ride one for a while to make your own mind up...
You don't get these threads on motorbike or car forums.
How about welding some struts next to the rear suspension in your car and see if the road comes alive?
Yes.
I have just gone back to a ht, a ti switchback from a long travel 29er. I have had loads of fs in the last few years and a bfe thrown in to. Test rode the switchback and just loved it. I ride peaks mainly with lakes etc. There is no doubt a FS is faster in lots of situations but not all and I actually prefer the switchback on the really tight steep stuff as it is well slack but more precise. I ride a lot and got fed up with bushings, bearings etc
No doubt I will be back on a full suss but don't see it having much travel, there is nothing out there that I know about though which I would consider.
Hi ape
I was in a similar situation to you a few years ago
However I had only ever really ridden FS bikes. It was when the on one 456 came out that I though "an I missing out"?
So I bought a second hand on one 456 and built myself a nice fun hardtail
So was I missing out? Yes, the HT was a hoot and I suddenly gained a load of respect for folk that can really fly on them.
Started riding the HT a lot, went and did all my fave local rides on it just because it was all different.
Ended up selling the 456 and bought an mmmbop
Things changed a bit at that point because the mmmbop weighed as much as my FS bike but it was brutally stiff. I just stopped riding it.
Eventually after a year I realised it wasn't for me. Sold that and bought a Ti 456.
That bike still gets ridden, as does my FS bike. But they get used for different days out.
Why not buy a used FS and see if you like it? Or borrow or demo one for a day?
Appreciate all the views/suggestions. Shouldn't be too hard to try one or two different bikes so I guess I'll just do that!
I've only ever ridden at HT except in the Alps last year when I hired a Scott Voltage, which was good fun for a change.
Some of my mates have always sworn by FS, to the point where I thought I might get one, but suddenly they all seem to be buying HTs.
My HT has a steep head angle and I always feel like I'm going over the bars, but it's good for climbing.
I started properly riding off-road in 2003, and have ridden HT for over 10 years. After riding the ardrock enduro 2 years ago, I decided I needed a dropper, so sold the soul and bought a bfe as I thought it suited my riding better. Noticed the lack of flex and the stiff back end pretty much straight away, compared to the soul which had 27.2 seat tube, it was just not as good to be riding all day.
I kept it for about 8 months and decide to go back to a soul, but by this point, they were updated seat tubes too, and CEN tested too. I felt it had lost that back end compliance that I loved so much.
During this time, I was waiting for the unicorn bike for nearly a year, the cotic rocket. This obviously never materialised, so I ordered a SB66 instead. I've also sold my fatbike and soul since then and replaced them with a spectral 29er.
I'll never go back. The spectral is incredible as a HT replacement, modern FS bikes are awesome on techy climbs, don't have the pedal Bob they used to have, and aren't much heavier now either.
I love both the spectral and the yeti, always thought I would have a soul after riding them for 10 years, but some things just change.
LOL @ kayla1, you ride a completely DH orientate bike once, then decide there no good, limited disclaimer or not.. yet I'm the one trolling, yeah go on with ya 😉
Had full sus since 1999. No way would I go back to having a hardtail as my main bike. I've got a hardtail, but the fully rigid bike gets used more.
Got both
Both good
Get both
Are you missing out? Yes.
Do you need one? No.
Are they good? Some yes, some no, depends on you and your riding.
They let you go way the hell faster on rocky ground, basically. This means that corners that were previously just bends become exhilerating fun. But that's only a benefit if you want to go fast. It depends what riding means to you. If you just like a bimble through the woods then save your money.
This only applies if it's rocky and/or rough though. If it's not, then it won't make a lot of difference unless you are looking for comfort.
It does take a while to learn how to get the best out of a FS though. If you just jump on it and expect a revelation, you might not get one. It takes repeated riding and learning to figure out just how fast you can go, and how to use the suspension to your advantage. The same is true for switching the other way round, of course.
My advice is - if you have the cash to splash, go for it.
I've never owned an FS either although I test rode a few some years ago, I just preferred hardtails - I have three of them. I ride the xc trails at Cwmcarn and Afan okay in good times, did Cafall in 1hr:16 a few weeks ago. I don't think I'd be any faster on an FS because my bottle runs out before the bike reaches it's limits. It would just be a comfier, smoother ride for me but that would take the fun out - I like picking lines and working the bike - and Im not one for taking the big drops anyway so it would be wasted on me. The only time I really felt I needed FS was going down that last decent on the Blade trail at Afan last year, I nearly got literally rattled right off the bike!
because my bottle runs out before the bike reaches it's limits.
But would lots more control not give you more in your bottle?
that ^^^ +1, more control = more confidence, and the rattle off a bike comment, is now why "I" wouldn't be bother to return to afan in a rush without a FS.
If I only had one bike it would be a full sus. They really don't cost much to maintain at all, that bit is a fallacy. I ride mine all year, 12 months, through all the gloop and paste imaginable and it has only asked for one bearing change in 2 years (total cost £28, diy). One shock service (£80) and anything else has been equivalent to a hardtail.
A full sus will be faster. You'll be able to ride all sorts of lines in ways you could have never imagined. Much more fun in my opinion.
dunno Molly, I've ridden them before and didn't seem to go any faster by overall time... maybe I was faster on the downs but slower on the climbs?
Had a few, loved them. Came from an old XC HT to a XC FS, then a trail FS and an AM/Enduro FS, and they did re-calibrate my brain as to how hard I could ride stuff.
Now gone back to a slack angled HT for pretty much all UK trail riding. For me it's just more fun and I enjoy the technical challenge of it being harder to go as fast. Just a lot more rewarding than pointing a big enduro bike downhill and steamrollering a trail. There is a tipping point though, trips to the Alps for example, just a lot more fun on a big bouncy bike. But for most UK trails (and certainly trail centres) it's HT for me.
Had several. Going to be selling my current one (very capable, lots of fun, but sick of replacing pivots) and get an Orange (again).
Saying that, I'm also planning to get another hardtail (on top of the rigid SS I already own).
I'm now beginning to see where N+1 comes in...
Re pivots, I've replaced one pair of bearings on my 5 in 8 years of ownership. Cost £15. Replaced two sets of shock bushings in that time.
Bearing life is a major plus of Orange FS bikes imo.
For me it's just more fun and I enjoy the technical challenge of it being harder to go as fast.
Riding a FS for me is just as technically challenging, because I'm going faster. I love the thrill of speed - HTs seem horribly slow now and quite frustrating as I see a line but I can't attack it!
dunno Molly, I've ridden them before and didn't seem to go any faster by overall time... maybe I was faster on the downs but slower on the climbs?
How much time did you spend on FS though? Took years for me to learn how to use it properly.
Have got several incarnations of both I consistently enjoy the FSs but blow hot and cold with the HTs
One thing I've learned is to accept the HTs for what they are and not try to make them into FS with a solid back end. Play to their strengths and minimise their weaknesses and ride accordingly. Wouldn't be without a HT and while I acknowledge that the FSs are better in some situations they#re not better everywhere, all the time.
Generally agree with above sentiments, I have a slack angled 650b full 120mm full suss and a rigid 29er and they suit very different rides.
Local XC, towing the Chariot, muddy winter rides - The 29er's perfect.
Anything fast, steep or rocky - full suss all the way, loads more fun.
I'm loving the HT just now, tbh there's not much I'd not ride on it, that I'd ride on the big bike- I'd just be slower. But then, sometimes I think, maybe I only got that way by riding things on the big bike. The biggest difference is grip imo.
Variety is the spice of life, I rode the same loop twice the other day on 2 different bikes and it felt very different.
Been a HT rider for ooooh, as long as I care to remember, then out of the blue, bought a 5 inch carbon Yeti...As you do. 😆
control, speed, grip...all those things happen on a HT, but happen "more" on a FS. Enjoying it, as much for novelty as anything else, and will probably at some point get bored by it, and go back to HT.
But yeah, you're missing out.
Riding a FS for me is just as technically challenging, because I'm going faster. I love the thrill of speed - HTs seem horribly slow now and quite frustrating as I see a line but I can't attack it!
Maybe if you get to ride loads of natural DH trails. And for trips to the Alps, for example, that definitely applies. UK trail centres which, TBH, is mostly what I ride these days, it really doesn't apply.
control, speed, grip...all those things happen on a HT, but happen "more" on a FS. Enjoying it, as much for novelty as anything else, and will probably at some point get bored by it, and go back to HT.
Yes, you might have more control, stability and grip... but where's the fun in that 🙂
UK trail centres which, TBH, is mostly what I ride these days, it really doesn't apply.
I think it does! I go to Cwmcarn a lot, it's not smooth.
Yes, you might have more control, stability and grip... but where's the fun in that
The fun is in the increased speed!
Yeah you’re missing out. Whether you care about what you’re missing out on? that’s your call.
I like my hardtail because its raw unplugged riding, it punishes you for each mistake but feels so sweet when you get going nicely, and it reminds me of messing about in the woods when I was a kid. I like my FS as it lets me get away with stupid stuff I’d never dream of on my HT. pop off that lip into a sketchy mess of braking bumps, roots and rocks? Ok. You have a bit more buffer between ‘ambitious line choice’ and ‘eating dirt’, it promotes silliness and speed, both are fun.
And yes as mentioned you’ll then hop back onto your HT and sometimes inadvertently hit that silly line or boost off those roots just before a fading out drop and you’ll realise that its actually alright.. but you wouldn’t have done it before.
I’d hire a good FS for a day or talk a shop into letting you take one for a demo. You’re never going to qualify it by saying its *faster *less technically challenging *more techy… but you might just find it quite fun.
The fun is in the increased speed!
For me it's marginal on those sorts of trails. Or maybe I'm just getting old and not prepared to push the pace enough to feel like I'm getting to my limits on a FS in the same way I can on a HT when riding for fun. If I was racing it'd be a different story and it'd be FS all the way, but for fun I'll stick to my HT.
I went back to hardtails as I was getting to speeds on the full suss where the results of getting it a bit wrong were getting dangerous (1 wrist, 12 weeks out). I'm a bit slower downhill, but quicker up so it averages out.
[i]Yes, you might have more control, stability and grip... but where's the fun in that[/i]
Cos Strava used to say 25mph on one of my descents now it says 30mph...it's fun
I must admit that I share brassneck's concern on some trails at least.
However that's not that common. I love being able to whip through a corner that's so rocky that on a HT you'd have to scrub off most of your speed and oof/urgh your way through.
Although to be fair my only HT now is fully rigid - on a 160mm slack hardcore HT it might be different.. never ridden one of those.
Northwind
The biggest difference is grip imo.
I'd agree, but not in terms of "absolute" grip, but the ability to maintain that grip under a wider range of conditions.
My big travel FS can be sent with some abandon into rough features, and is forgiving enough to be able to take an ill advised, panicky grab of brake for example, whereas the same thing on my fully committed HT leads to me eating dirt!
Aye, that's well described.
So basically what you're all saying is that it's not my fault I keep bouncing off my bike when I'm following my riding colleagues 🙂
I'd agree, but not in terms of "absolute" grip, but the ability to maintain that grip under a wider range of conditions.
Yes. The other day I overcooked something rocky and fast, and with a quick dab of brakes and a flick I was back on course hardly having slowed down. Because I still had bags of control.
maxtorque has it nailed, on a FS, you can grab some brake, and it will grip, on the HT the rear will skip. Sometimes that's OK, sometimes it isn't.