We live in a main door tenement property with our own entrance, there's a 4 story block of flats above us with their own communal entrance, a normal setup in Edinburgh properties.
Our title deeds are clear that we have right of access to the communal stairwell as it leads to communal gardens, but we do not have a responsibility for the upkeep or repairs of the communal area and the roofing above it (namely the cupola above the stairwell, we are responsible for the rest of the roof as it is technically above our property). We do however have sole responsibility for our own areas such as front and rear gardens, and the old scullery out the back of our property which is single storey so has a roof that we along are responsible for upkeep.
I keep my commuting bike in the communal stairwell as I have no room in my bike shed, nobody seems to have any issue with it, nor does it get in anyones way.
The neighbours want to get the communal front door painted, I've said I'll chip in for the sake of twenty quid since I make use of the door but at the same time made it known that I didn't have an overall responsibility for that area so didn't want this to set a precedent for paying for future repairs, especially as the current situation means we have a greater "risk" for repairs than them already due to the spaces we have that are not shared, not that I have an issue with this but just wanted them to know I was not being a total cheapskate.
They seem kinda ok about it but I get the feeling a little sniffy at the whole thing. We get on fairly well with the neighbours and I suspect nothing will be said until such time when a more major repair is needed and they try to suggest I pay my fair share since I use the space.
Do you reckon I'm being unreasonable? I get the point of view that I am perhaps using the space a little more than the title deeds suggest I should, though I would think that technically nobody should be using the communal areas for "storage" if we are going by late 1800s legal documents. However I don't want to start promising to pay for things like roof repairs just to lock up my shitty commuter.
Would you keep using the space, or find an alternative place to lock up the commuter (difficult) to avoid any future arguments before they arise?
I'd have thought that your right of access doesn't imply right to use as storage space and so you either stop using it or agree to join in with upkeep
IANAL
IANAJock
IALoverNAFighter
Do you reckon I'm being unreasonable?
Yes.
Hmm, cake and eat it?
Might seem small but goodwill easily spent. I'd be moving the bike and sticking to the rules, with the odd £20 thrown in anyway!
In fact, I'd iffer to paint the door as a keep my bike in their hallway!
Isn't the communal stairwell a fire escape? Surely you should not store a bike there?
Sorry sister narrowly escaped a house fire a few years ago....
I'd say move your bike.
Simone
Might seem small but goodwill easily spent. I'd be moving the bike and sticking to the rules, with the odd £20 thrown in anyway!
No issues with 20 quid here and there, and have chipped in for door, just not several hundred quid should they look for a share of a communal roof repair in future! 20 quid occasionally is probably commensurate with my usage of the space compared to others.
In fact, I'd iffer to paint the door as a keep my bike in their hallway!
I did! I'm doing ours and offered to do the communal one at the same time, they said they would pay someone instead!
Fair cop if I'm unreasonable. I asked to use it for my bike in the first place and nobody had issues, but none of us likely thought through it from the perspective of costs of repairs in that space.
Save your £20s, buy a bigger bike shed.
You are taking liberties and therefore it is best to appreciate this and be really nice back to them
Paint the door for them Cheap to do as well and a bit of time for a bit of grace
Isn't the communal stairwell a fire escape? Surely you should not store a bike there?
No issues in the space it's in, large old buildings with lots of space for access and storage. It sits alongside 3 other bikes and a buggy, none of which are a danger or inconvenience.
I'd not be impressed if someone in the main door / garden flat was using the communal stairwell to keep a bike. Sounds a bit cheeky to me. Do you contribute to stair cleaning / costs?
I'd not be impressed if someone in the main door / garden flat was using the communal stairwell to keep a bike
You are taking liberties and therefore it is best to appreciate this and be really nice back to them
As above, was only done initially after discussion and agreement with neighbours. Never been any hint of an issue till discussion today.
We get on and are nice with each other, go round for cups of tea, I take more than my fair share of work in the communal areas such as the garden including planting trees at one of neighbours tennis clubs and am currently selling her old garden furniture on Gumtree for her. They can't say I'm not nice to them!
Yes, I think you are being unreasonable. I reckon you used up any good will credit with your neighbours when you made your stance on communal stair well costs clear.
I would have no problem with it. You've offered to chip in for the doors as a gesture of goodwill and it would keep me happy enough, especially as it's not inconveniencing anyone else. If you think it may be a problem then move your bike somewhere else, but I probably wouldn't bother.
How is the communal area administered/Repaired then? Stairlighting, Cleaning. You must pay a service charge somehow?
For painting a door, I'd just get a share from everyone and do it myself if factor was reluctant. Seems like you have proactive neighbours with a bit of pride. Wanna swap?
fire and rescue hate bikes on stairs but if its out the way i'm sure nobody would mind.
Sounds like you are thinking too much and have now opened up to the STW Opinion Generator, we really need more info, how big are the wheels on the bike?
Most of these things are about tone and language, if you went out of your way to make sure that they really did know that you were only giving them twenty quid as you ARE SUCH A GENEROUS BLOKE AND THEY HAD BETTER REMEMBER THAT then you lost. If it's just a normal thing then just get on with life.
we really need more info, how big are the wheels on the bike?
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I wouldn't annoy your neighbours too much. Letter of the law - no storing anything in common stairwells in Edinburgh. If they make a call the Fire Service have been known to come along and remove everything. This happened in a stairway I lived in, but that was a few years ago now.
Letter of the law - no storing anything in common stairwells in Edinburgh.
Technically yes but not the case in practice, the council themselves [url= http://www.spokes.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Fact-sheet-v10-231210.pdf ]publish information[/url] (via spokes) specifically on the storage of bikes in communal stairwell. Essentially common sense applies and should it not obstructs exits and is not complained about by neighbours then fine, neither being the case in this instance.
[i]I'd not be impressed if someone in the main door / garden flat was using the communal stairwell to keep a bike. Sounds a bit cheeky to me. Do you contribute to stair cleaning / costs? [/i]
That would be my take on it too. You've got lots of space, have now overfilled it but want to store your bike elsewhere.
When you think about it you contribute to the mess in the stairwell by bringing a commuter in and I presume dripping road filth all over the floor, but don't contribute to cleaning.
It is a wee bit cheeky.
But if it's already been discussed and all the neighbours are happy with it then I don't see what the problem is with carrying on as you are.
Sounds a bit like the 2 most likely outcomes are:
1) you agree to their expectations of shared costs, which opens you up to the possibility of a big bill at some point in the future
or..
2) you stand your ground and risk falling out with the neighbours (if not full scale hostilities, then at least some bad will)
Neither of those is really a winning situation for you.
Personally (& if possible) I'd look at freeing up space in your bike shed to store the bike & make the whole situation go away
they may agree with you storing the bike in the stairwell, but should the big repair bill arrive and they ask you to chip in and you decline.
I would bet the bike would become an issue and some kind of bargaining chip towards getting you to pay.
I'd move it to avoid any issues in the future
Alot of people can be quite funny about bicycles and where you put them. Lets not forget not everyone things its normal to put your bike inside a shopdoorway as you forgot your lock and its expensive, etc etc. Alot of people see bikes as outdoor things that are inherently dirty and dont belong anywhere but the pavement or shed.
You aren't paying for the full upkeep yet you expect a small bribe will allow you to keep your bike in that area?
Sorry- move your bike or fully contribute.
As you have a good relationship with them, could you not just.....ask them?
That way, you have given them the opportunity to ask you to move your bike now that they know your stance on the moneys. If they say it's fine, keep it there then you can rest easy. If they want it moved, at least you know they aren't going to tap you up for cash AND you save £20 immediately.
As you have a good relationship with them, could you not just.....ask them?
That way, you have given them the opportunity to ask you to move your bike now that they know your stance on the moneys. If they say it's fine, keep it there then you can rest easy. If they want it moved, at least you know they aren't going to tap you up for cash AND you save £20 immediately.
Sent them all a note exactly along those lines this morning. I wanted a bit of a temperature check on whether I was being reasonable or not before I wrote it.
Offered to source suitable bike storage to put in the shared garden that can accommodate all bikes currently stored in the stairwell as an alternative.
Sent them all a note exactly along those lines this morning. I wanted a bit of a temperature check on whether I was being reasonable or not before I wrote it.
I'd probably have gone and spoken to them, perhaps invited them around or organised a communal BBQ. Face to face is always best (unless drunk, then a note's prob best).
The problem here appears to be bending grey areas to suit yourself and then taking issue if the same grey areas come at you for a cost.
Either work with them and accept there is a cost for your convenience or find an alternative and stick to black and white.
I'd probably have gone and spoken to them, perhaps invited them around or organised a communal BBQ. Face to face is always best (unless drunk, then a note's prob best).
No biggie, there was already an email trail on the subject and I spoke to them face to face about it when I first put the bike there so it's not as if I've avoided them. Plus on email it gives them more of a chance to confer as a group and gang up against me if it is what they so wish, they might feel compelled to say yes if face to face 😀
[i]Sent them all a note exactly along those lines this morning[/i]
Did you stick it under their windscreen wipers 🙂
[i]Offered to source suitable bike storage to put in the shared garden[/i]
I don't get this. Why not just either get this for your own garden or spend the money on a bigger shed?
My stair cleaning costs for the tenement stair I live in have just gone up to £2.50 a week per flat, so £130 a year.
If the guys from the garden flat were using the stair for access and bike storage without contributing for this I'd feel a bit miffed.
Repair costs such as painting the door are irrelevant to me as I'm a tenant.
they might feel compelled to say yes if face to face
😉
Once they've said it, it's done!
I don't get this. Why not just either get this for your own garden or spend the money on a bigger shed?
Mainly because "Garden" is maybe over stating what we have of our own, it's a small patch of ground front and rear of the property, I couldn't physically fit in a larger bike store than is currently there. The communal garden (of which we have an equal right to use) is at least 10x the size of the amount of ground we have solely for our use and pretty underused so a fairly practical choice. Plus I was trying to be nice by offering to accommodate all the bikes and clear up the stairwell as a whole!
Once they've said it, it's done!
True dat, but don't want to twist their arm, if they genuinely have an issue now when they didn't before, I'd rather they had the chance to say so.
I'd pay for it or buy a flat/ house with more storage instead.
As above, if you don't pay they'll start moaning about your bike inside.
*Alternatively you could always buy a folder and keep it in your flat, not pay for anything and never speak to your neighbours again.
[quote=tenacious_doug ] I couldn't physically fit in a larger bike store than is currently there. The communal garden (of which we have an equal right to use) is at least 10x the size of the amount of ground we have solely for our use and pretty underused so a fairly practical choice. Plus I was trying to be nice by offering to accommodate all the bikes and clear up the stairwell as a whole!You are introducing more grey areas.
Who will look after this bike storage, make sure it's secure etc.
Who will folk complain to if it's broken into and bikes stolen?
What happens when it's suddenly full of bikes/prams and there's no where to put yours?
There's a lot to be said for simplicity and self-sufficiency 😆
why not paint the door neon stripes and then kick it down and use it as a ramp to jump over the neighbour's cat.
you might then have a decent 'neighbourly content' question to ask...
Either accept the fact that you use the space so have at least "some" responsibility towards its upkeep, or use it solely for the purposes on your deeds, ie access, and don't contribute.
Either accept the fact that you use the space so have at least "some" responsibility towards its upkeep,
I have, I'm not that unreasonable, hence why I'm happy to pay for painting of the door (or do it for them myself) and would happily chip in for minor repairs in the future, especially those in the small part of the stairwell I use (ie. between front and back doors). I guess the crux of my question is whether I'm being unreasonable to say that I'll make these contributions which seem commensurate with the small amount of usage I make of the area compared to the other residents, rather than a wholesale equal share of all costs associated with the stairwell just because it was agreed I could keep a bike there.
Obviously only my neighbours will answer this but been useful to get a gauge of other opinions to help me decide how to approach them about the issue.
If I was in your position I'd chip in towards the cleaning costs at the very least. You contribute to making in dirty, probably more than some others, so should contribute towards the cleaning in some part anyway.
If I was in your position I'd chip in towards the cleaning costs at the very least. You contribute to making in dirty, probably more than some others, so should contribute towards the cleaning in some part anyway.
There isn't any costs, done DIY afaik, I sweep when I get it mucky 8)
Yeah, I guess it's a conversation that really only you and your neighbours can have. It's great that you contribute anyway (when you don't need to). I suppose the thing is to get agreement with them about what level that contribution is.
If you want to store your bike there, then the place needs to be secure and weathertight, you should be happy to maintain that at least, you just need to be able to agree and amount for that privilege