Forum menu
They are very expensive, but are they worth it?
...for DH I mean... obviously.
Dunno. Depends on whether or not you intend to break your spine really. Personally, I don't crash all that much, and I know c-spine injuries from mountain biking are actually pretty damn rare. If I was having big crashes on a regular basis, I guess my position might change.
I think my neck brace saved me from breaking my neck when I nose dived Chatel Road gap. I wear it without it bothering me & would recommend the Leatt one.
I witnessed a rider break their neck (paralysed) and a friend is in a wheelchair for life, both professionals, both from getting jumps and landings wrong, so for DH I would.
I'm sure those who have damaged their spines have never intended to do it. The risk of crashing is always there, surely?
Edit: that was to Nw.
Has any evidence for their benefits been produced yet? Apart from anecdotal, I mean.
mikey74 - MemberI'm sure those who have damaged their spines have never intended to do it.
Does seem plausible.
The risk of crashing is always there; but the risk of a crash damaging your cervical spine is very low. And also, not limited to downhill- just naturally the risk is higher as the risk of big crashes gets higher. But it never actually gets very high.
Real-world proof of the effectiveness of the things is always going to be incredibly hard to come by (though, on the plus side, that's just because you need a massive sample of riders to get a significant number of spinal injuries, never mind preventable c-spine injuries, let alone a comparison of with-and-without, ruling out user error. But the theory is certainly good.
Seeing people wearing cheap, heavy full face helmets and leatts seems odd to me though, lighter helmets reduce the risks involved too. Likewise people wearing them but riding shagged-out bikes or attempting things they just don't have the skill to do.
A surprising number . IIRC the spinal consultant from the southern general was getting a bit concerned about it as he was treating a dozen or so serious spinal breaks.
No doubt you will be seeing them at trail centres on your 456 riding Audi driver next season.
Sorry TJ, a surprising number of what?
Not a helpful comment carbon.
neck breaks. IIRC the consultant had seen 10 in a year from MTBers
Can't find the story now
I wear one for downhilling, if i never crash no problem, however if i do and i dont end up in a wheelchair great, I dont want to risk it and be the minority
Was he in favour of the neck braces then?
Don't remember.
the thing is they have to be worn with FF helmets which have their own drawbacks.
Well let's ignore the full-face debate for now. I always wear one for downhilling so I'm fine with that.
neck breaks. IIRC the consultant had seen 10 in a year from MTBers
IIRC that article wasn't referring to downhill, just normal riding - so not really relevant to the neck brace debate
Racing DH perhaps there is a point. I'd like to see some real data on them tho
I'd far prefer an airbag like you can get for motorcycling and is in testing for cycling. Less chance of it transferring energy to elsewhere undesirable or causing other issues and more comfortable
edit - think you are right legend
Works out expensive if it goes off every time you crash though! IIRC the Dainese one works with a dead-man's-cord so also goes off every time you forget you're attached to the bike. Which going by my experience with heated gloves, is often 😉
oh, something I accidentally edited out of my last post- if you're considering it, do check that your brace is compatible with any existing armour you have- mate of mine got a brace, and now can't wear his pressure suit. [i]Not[/i] the way forward considering the number of more common injuries he's now less protected for. The braces now seem extremely good, not the horrible contraptions they were last time I wore one.
I am pretty certain that my 661 core saver is compatible, but i will check.
The Leatt website says little about testing or statistics, only that it is tested to CE standards. They basically say "trust us, it works", but £250 is alot of money to spend on trust.
It's a controversial question as I'm sure we are all aware...
My first instinct is- why on earth would you not wear one?
But... there is no published evidence (as far as I am aware) as to the benefits. It is not hard to demonstrate benefits in terms of reducing the range of motion/ reducing stresses within the neck if they really wanted to. I guess it just isn't in their interest as they sell better based on trust (no numbers for internet warriors to quote and misquote).
One thing which got me thinking as to why you may not want to use one is the idea that the weakest thing always gives. So, if you beef up the upper neck does this mean you are more likely to damage the surrounding structures? Just a thought...
My wee brother worked out in Morzine this summer and said that serious neck/spine injuries were very common out there.
But the questions is: How much do the neck braces help to prevent serious neck and spine injuries?
The answer is - we don't know. Its very hard to get a definate answer to stuff like this. See if there is any decent peer reviewed evidence then critique it - and you have an idea
I would expect some protective effect but not 100%
I can't believe anyone would seriously consider even looking at a bike (road or mountain) without first wearing a neck brace. You're an idiot if you do and deserve everything you get.
I would expect some protective effect but not 100%
I suspect you are right TJ.
I found this article:
[url= http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Leatt-neck-brace-review-2009.html ]neck brace article[/url]
I haven't had a chance to read it all yet, as I'm at work, but I'll read it tonight when I get home.
Taking the questionable effectiveness out of the argument.
Would neck braces be as popular if the were £40 to buy instead of the luxury price ticket they currently hold?
I'm unconvinced.
Its my experience that a good proportion of people that wear them have either been bought them by anxious parents or wear them in a fashion type way. Some of later carelessly dispense with such crude safety gear as gloves or spine board but are happy to rock the latest carbon fibre stickered up leatte brace with nothing but a T shirt to protect all their other vertebra.
Taking the questionable effectiveness out of the argument.
Would neck braces be as popular if the were £40 to buy instead of the luxury price ticket they currently hold?I'm unconvinced.
If they were proved to be of considerable benefit, then I think they would be even more popular if the price was lower.
As a matter of interest: Are neck braces subject to the same 0% VAT that helmets are?
I'd buy one if it was £40.
You don't see people not wearing FF helmets because a 661 one is £35 on CRC, those who want to pose will buy a D2 or D3 etc. Those with less cash buy THE T2's, even less 661's. A £40 neck brace would appeal to those who buy the £100 helmets.
But then I don't wear any upper body armour, as the lovely scar down my side shows nicely form a relatively simple OTB at Warncliffe last month that I probably should!
Well said TINAS.
If they were £40 I wouldn't have started this debate, I would have just gone out and bought one. As they are £250, it requires a bit more thought.
Yea, I progress so slowly that when I crash it's usualy due to a stupid mistake rather than missing a 20ft gap.
Like TJ noraly says, if I was wearing a pressure suit, hip armour, shin pads, neck brace and FF, I'd feel invincible, and therefore crash more! I already crash a lot more in the FF as it just doesn't hurt. Not so much from trying more though, just because the effort of saving myself is more 'wasted' so I'm more likely to ditch and bail than try and ride it out.
I'm not convinced by neck braces. Unless you're falling from high up, straight down on your head, what use are they?
Most MTB falls are low level, shooting forwards rather than straight down, so your head doesn't generally get direct loads that the neck braces help with.
Put another way, neck braces can only helps if your head is loaded. An overwhelming majority of head/ground interfaces are glancing blows, or direct impacts where your body is taking the load with your head taking knocks as the crash is happening.
If this all makes sense?
I think the guy who developed the leatt brace was a spinal injuries doctor in South Africa and designed it in response to the injuries he saw over there from mx and bike crashes. I am sure they are effective BUT they are way expensive and the chances of ever needing one are probably pretty small. Having said that, I will probably end up buying one for my son as I dont fancy pushing him around in a wheelchair if that small chance ever arose.
There is an IXS one that is a lot cheaper £135 i think
There are dozens of threads over at SouthernDownhill.com on this type of thing, being a more DH orientated website...
The conclusion generally swings between 'fashion' and 'I swear by mine'
£250 is quite a bit - but how many would spend £2.5k on a bike?
I've got a Leatt Moto GPX one for sale if anyone's interested. 🙂
It's in perfect condition and cheap.
£250 is quite a bit - but how many would spend £2.5k on a bike?
Not me, which is probably why
There is an IXS one that is a lot cheaper £135 i think
Has me googling.
All google finds is a LEAT IXS for £330!
Nope my google-fu is lacking today.
Although I did find a cheeper (possibly just an evoution of the foam ring ones) looking O'neal one for £45...
Not getting into this kettle of fish discussion but I'll air my brief opinion.
I have a protruding broken collarbone on my right side so if I was to wear a neck brace the chances of that bone being smashed in a crash that wouldn't usually damage it would be high... so I dont.
However... if this was not the case I think the thing to consider is what a medic told me. (this guys is the last response for people who are likely going to be dead an hour later).
He said he's turned up at quite a few scenes where the rider has been passed out unconscious and the neck brace has acted as a pivot point on the back of the neck and blocking their airways.
Now I don't know about you but I can imagine a big crash runs a big risk of being unconscious so for me its still a 50/50 gamble no matter what advice you'd like to convince yourself with.
AND they didn't exist a couple of years ago in downhilling and you didn't see the forum covered with posts from people with broken necks did you?
I cant wait to see the first rider at a trail centre - fully padded up, with their MET Parachute on and Neck Brace in place making a pig's ear of coming down any of the descents.........its going to happen, you know it will.
I'll be laughing so hard i'll probably fall of my bike 🙂
You can't wait? Just go to Glentress any weekend and you'll see folk wearing them!
I cant wait to see the first rider at a trail centre - fully padded up, with their MET Parachute on and Neck Brace in place making a pig's ear of coming down any of the descents.........its going to happen, you know it will.I'll be laughing so hard i'll probably fall of my bike
If its a blue/white 661 it's probably me. It's odd, on site I/we unquestioningly wear bright orange boiler suits, hard hats, goggles, gloves, boots and stick to the 30mph limit (and the walking pace 5mph limits arround some areas). Yet offsite people decry safety gear as stupid despite it being a lot more dangerous than walking down the road which is essentialy what we're doing on site, except there's barely any trafic on site!
WTF is going on with the EVS one i'ts huge! Either that or its being worn by a midget
the majority I've seen are worn by teenagers and those in their early 20s - and are generally worn without upper body armour.
Either it's a fashion thing or young adults are more susceptible to helmet related spinal injuries as their neck muscles are weaker (lolipop heads).
are generally worn without upper body armour
They are more comfortable when worn without it!
Plus, body armour will prevent a couple of scratches, a neck brace is designed to prevent you breaking your neck!
Plus, body armour will prevent a couple of scratches
Including a spine protector?
I'll give you that one Mikey, my Leatt doesn't work well with my Poc spine protector... hence the sale of it.
Most new armours, I think, are coming neck brace compatible. I still need to check to see if my Core Saver is. I am pretty certain it is as it was something I looked into when I bought it.
Poc are still researching whether they (neck braces) are of real benefit. I'm sure that they'll bring out one eventually.
costing at least £300
available only in off-white with pastelly neon graphics
£300 would be cheap for POC... I reckon you'd be looking at the best part of £500.
I've had them marked down as expensive fashion items since they came out; until, a month or so back at Inners I without warning went over the bars at high speed and landed pretty much on my head. I was lucky and had no obvious injuries, however I got a real fright plus I had a stiff neck for days.
It did make me think. I don't go mental buying bike stuff, but my DH bike cost me £4k, helmet £250, etc. I imagined how daft I'd feel lying in the Southern* with a spinal injury, wondering to myself, "Would £300 have prevented this?" Even if it wouldn't necessarily have made any difference, I would wonder if it would have. I got one the next day.
*My missus broke her neck a few years back (she's fine now), a spinal injuries unit has some sorry soles in it I can assure you.
thisisnotaspoon - MemberLike TJ noraly says, if I was wearing a pressure suit, hip armour, shin pads, neck brace and FF, I'd feel invincible, and therefore crash more
Aye, interesting topic of its own this. Some brilliant studies- soldiers with big confidence inspiring helmets being more likely to get shot in the face, frinstance. Personally, the jousting suit reminds me that I'm doing something stupid and should probably be careful 😉
The Southern Yeti - MemberPlus, body armour will prevent a couple of scratches, a neck brace is designed to prevent you breaking your neck!
Well, no, body armour isn't restricted to preventing scratches at all. But that aside; the point is that kneepads and similiar prevent against common injuries; neck braces protect against uncommon injuries.