[Closed] Natural Riding is Much Better Than Trail Centres?

So where's the best natural riding for north shore type stuff?
Or any natural pump tracks around?

I wanted to go to Glentress to pootle down with the saddle up my ass. Is this not allowed?

Yes, aslong as you stick to the fire roads.

By the sounds of things, I'd avoid the red and black routes if I were you. They will completely blow your mind and make you question whats actually possible on a mountain bike.

I made it home after the first time I rode them, but it took me 20minutes to start the car - couldnt turn the keys in the ignition because my hands were shaking so much.

ooOOoo - Member

So where's the best natural riding for north shore type stuff?
Or any natural pump tracks around?

i'd just settle for some 'natural' singletrack...

zerolight - Member
I wanted to go to Glentress to pootle down with the saddle up my ass... I'm not a crazy, jump off everything, get to the bottom as fast as I can, kinda guy. I wanna get back home to my kids, preferrably alive...

i'd suggest the Glentress Blue; it's very easy, very swoopy, and lots of fun.

It depends where you live, surely, and what your local trails are like.
I'm lucky enough to live on the south west fringes of sheffield, so I rarely visit trail centres.
Why would I drive 2 hours to dalby (the nearest) when I can be on a bridleway heading to the dark peak within a 1 minute ride of my front door?
The only times I really visit trail centres is when I'm on holiday say in the lakes, dales or wales.
Although the last 2 visits to snowdonia and the lakes I opted to ride the natural stuff. It's way more challenging than what I remember of dalby, whinlatter, grizedale and the Marin trail.
Pysically and technically.
If I want to ride tabletops and drops I can go to the local BMX track. Don't need a car for that either.
Not been to any of the scottish ones, and I would definitely check out 7staines if the opportunity arose. Just to see what the fuss is about.

In the end I don't consider people who only ride trail centres to be proper mountain bikers. They may have really good bike skills and be faster than me, but mountain biking involves finding your way and being self sufficient, looking after yourself for a day in the hills, not having the easy option of a walk back to the car if something goes wrong.

By the sounds of things, I'd avoid the red and black routes if I were you. They will completely blow your mind and make you question whats actually possible on a mountain bike.

Oh, I've been riding red and black grade stuff without dropping my saddle. I don't own any body armour or a full face. Or suspension.

Perhaps I've been asking my bike the wrong questions?

I best avoid the 1 foot drop I ride on my commuter on the way home tonight too.

docrobster - Member

It depends where you live, surely, and what your local trails are like.

i also live in sheffield; lots of lovely singletrack, some of it's footpaths, most of it's just badger trails, almost none of it is Bridleway.

Trail centres allow me to ride singletrack in daylight, without getting shot.

Trail Centres I've done:
Afan/CG - good fun, nice for a blast
Swinley - OK
Frizedale forest - way too easy and boring
Bedgebury - can you class that as a trail!
Cym Carn - boring and uninspiring

Natural trail riding:
Peak district (Jacob's, Cut Gate etc) - Brilliant, scary and technical
lake District - Brilliant and challenging
Quantocks and Darmoor - fast, scary, technical, and bloody hard climbs.
South Downs - erm, ok, that can be a bit boring in places!

And that's even before I've talked about my local trails!

Saying that, I'm hoping to get to Afan over christmas as it's an easy blast with mates who need a bit of confidence.

They will completely blow your mind and make you question whats actually possible on a mountain bike.

but mountain biking involves finding your way and being self sufficient

Oh good, there's a rule book and a clear list of definitions now. Could you provide a link please.

There's some awful snobbery, sectarianism and cobblers on this thread 😉

Bikes, riding - it's all good 😎

Coyote +1

I was about to question that assumption as well - part of the reason I got into riding mountain bikes was to escape the ****iness of rock climbing with it's artificial self-imposed hierarchies and ethics. The last thing I want is for people to be telling me what does and doesn't constitute 'mountain biking'.

At the end of the day, the 'mountain' in mountain bike is possibly something of a misnomer - perhaps the French have a better idea with "all terrain bike" (VTT). For me the two most important criteria are "am I riding a bike?" and "am I having fun?" - if the answer to both is yes, that'll do me.

The most of the official DH tracks in Portes Du Soleil now there is boring for you. Well ok not boring just very very uniform.

Trail centres are FANTASTIC resourses, I use them to:

Get fitter then my naturail trail loop allows due to the unatural up/ down nature of centres, its like interval training but fun.

Session different corner / bend types including berms

Session drops

Session steep rideable inclines up and down

Learn how to pump the inbuilt rollers at centres
Etc etc,

These skills are then transfered and translated in to the riding of natural trails, and its surprising how often the trail centre features (in the extreme, of course) are found in the real world.
Knowing how to enjoy the man made features means riding your natural loop becomes more fun, as you search out the natural rollers to pump, natural kickers to jump, that bit of wear where the trail sinks away from the edge becomes a mini berm to find cornering grip....

When I go to trail centres they usually seem to be full of people having fun on their bikes.

I'll have to set them straight next time and let them know how deluded they are.

I'm an seat up 'XC mincer' and I like trail centres!
I try and ride stuff at a trail centre that I'd normally get off and walk in the wilds - they just seem like good places to concentrate on technique without having to worrying about navigation as well.

On balance though, I prefer a big day out in the hills - less people, better views, more variation in terrain and a greater sense of achievement.
And although I love the satisfaction in clearing a difficult piece of trail, I love pootling along enjoying the countryside too.
It's not supposed to be competitive, unless you've got a number on. 🙂

I like techy stuff, and when it gets a bit much, I just take the chicken routes, and the few trails I have had the pleasure of riding. I just don't want to be abused because I'm not going as fast as the dude with 24" of travel and a motor bike helmet who wants to get air over every hump he sees.

Oh, and whilst we are on the subject of rules and definitions. Please can someone define a "natural" trail. Aren't most of them man-made in some form?

Frizedale forest - way too easy and boring

doesn't that say it all? Grizedale is stuffed with great riding, but you need a map, leader or luck to find it. The NFT is as described 🙂

Try trailquesting (did I mention I ride trailquests ?).

it's like mountain biking but more boring and you don't see your mates 🙁

IMO Natural riding is better, but a clast round a trail centre is fun.

You can be fast at a trail centre but those are completely different skills to natural techy stuff. I prefer the natural stuff as its more challenging but everyone to their own!

doesn't that say it all? Grizedale is stuffed with great riding, but you need a map, leader or luck to find it. The NFT is as described

now you mention it, we did do a couple of extra bits, and they were better than the trail.

I'm with MS on this one.

Coyote - Member

Oh, and whilst we are on the subject of rules and definitions. Please can someone define a "natural" trail. Aren't most of them man-made in some form?

don't ask difficult questions!

everything i ride is 'man made' - some trails have fewer features in them, these are called 'bridleways'.

The fact is, most xc mincers are scared to admit that they really struggle with trail centres

😆 Briliant!!! 😆

I don't remember struggling on Llandegla & Hamsterley black or follow the dog on my then rigid singlespeed?? Got a few funny looks in the Sherwood pines bike park too 😆 Must mince harder I guess 🙄 I also ride a road bike so I am doubly mince.

Not ridden a trail centre but I'm still going to spout opinionated guff at the expense of trail centre users.

Actually no I'm not.

As long as it gets you out there, who cares?

Oh, and whilst we are on the subject of rules and definitions. Please can someone define a "natural" trail. Aren't most of them man-made in some form?

Apart from the ones made by deer, sheep, badgers, rabbits...

The best stuff at my local trail centre is the non-waymarked stuff. Those are generally natural trails that have been tidied up a little.

Man-enhanced natural trails. In a trail centre.

The best stuff in The Wilds is often either animal-made then eroded, or man-made and left unmaintained.

As long as it gets you out there, who cares?

Nail on head.

I've had as much fun riding the towpath on the Leeds Liverpool canal and Bury Bolton canal as i have at Healey Nab, Gisburn and Lee & Cragg quarries

[b]Plus[/b]
[*]Good when the real trails are horribly sloppy[/*]
[*]Have longer flow sections[/*]
[*]Have more good corners[/*]

[b]Neg[/b]
[*]Can feel samey[/*]
[*]Can feel tamed, lacking "chaos"[/*]
[*]Often busy[/*]
[*]Are a closed loop, rather than an open network[/*]

Edited - I think I've broken the Internet.

What surf-mat said. Plus, I've never been BORED on my mountain bike. Not ever.

Plus, I've never been BORED on my mountain bike. Not ever.

I did say "more boring than", what I mean is I found the spurious competition and having to go to places to score points within a time limit interfered with my normal enjoyment of riding 🙁

(There were more references to boredom than yours sfb.)

Apart from the ones made by deer, sheep, badgers, rabbits...

I wonder do deer, sheep, badgers, and rabbits have similar debates about what kind of trails they prefer / are allowed to wander on? I mean I think a rabbit might struggle with a step-up made by a deer, and the deer might have a problem where the badgers decide to go sub-terranean........

And as for sheep, well they are basically man-made themselves, does that not mean the trails they make are effectively man-made??

well they are basically man-made themselves

I hadn't realised that sheep shagging was [b]that[/b] effective!

Aww, come on? You tryin' to tell me youve never watched " The Revenge Of Billy The Kid"?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102783/

Really? When they have been designed and built to ride on a mountain bike.
Unlikely.

Woosh 😀

and there was me think 'natural riding' was a naturist pastime..

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but do naturist mtb'ers still wear body armour?

I like both - Do I win £5?

I prefer 'organic' trails to Mctrails, but they both have their place, particularly for a bit of light relief in the middle of a schlock filled winter.

I'm seeing riders coming through now that seem to have a bias for one or the other - Trail centre riders are generally faster and know how to fly on smooth and groomed stuff, whilst ROW riders seem to have more technical aptitude and line choosing skills.

I was quite surprised when I guided a couple of Cwm Carn DH sessioners round my XC patch - they were happy to ride the big jumps at speeds and heights that would scare the piss right outta me, but I left them for dead down Cheddar rockgarden, which is something I thought they would have liked, being all rad and gnarly.

They got to the bottom and couldn't get over it 'there were rocks everywhere' one said.

err yes. It woke me up to the fact that people are coming to MTB via different routes these days, and there are slightly different skill sets involved.

I have never ridden a natural trail and never would.. they are rubbish.. just old bits of countryside that no-one likes except sheep and ramblers.. If they were good people would have built roads and houses and trail centers there.. but they aren't..

My local trail centre is the bomb.. it has really good smooth singletrack and three sections with rocks.. The singletrack is really flowy cos it isn't influenced by stupid natural features.. AND Elbry rides there.. there's always at least 50 other people up there and I can get coffee if I want..

Lots of tongue in cheek comments on here (DavidTaylforth + Yunki im looking at you!) whether people actually realise that or not im not sure that they do!

Personally i've never ridden a trail centre but would certainly like to. I like the fact that you're less likely to encounter people coming up the descent than on a bridleway.
Theres plenty of room on this small island for everyone, so why try and limit yourself to one particular type of riding? Not everyone likes downhilling or xc mincing equally, so just ride what you like.
What i'd REALLY like are access laws in England like they have in Scotland i.e. See a trail ride it, end of.

Well I certainly enjoyed the (pretty much) exclusively man made trails in BC. Better than anything natural or man made I've ever ridden in the UK anyway. IMHO of course.

I've yet to ride a TC where Ive had to: stop/get off to go through gates (usually on the best descents!), dodge other non-bike users,ride on tarmac, stop/start to follow a routguide/maps etc. That said natural riding at its best just about wins for me!

'there were rocks everywhere' one said.

Yeah it's a fast trail but the rocks are pretty random, completely embedded and damn slick too. Once of my fav trails anywhere.

So all we need now Colin, is learn how to jump stuff!

In the end I don't consider people who only ride trail centres to be proper mountain bikers. They may have really good bike skills and be faster than me, but mountain biking involves finding your way and being self sufficient, looking after yourself for a day in the hills, not having the easy option of a walk back to the car if something goes wrong.

Heh - I only really consider if people on their bikes are having fun. 😀

I used to live in Peebles and rode trails in most of the Tweed valley forests, long before they became "official" trails and you had to pay for them. Once that started I never went back. Now I ride cross-country, quite often without anything much more than a sheep track across moorland and, of course, beaches and dunes at the coast. The best thing I even did was build a Surly Pugsley, goes anywhere, anytime. Go on, be different!

[img] [/img]

Gary
www.pugsley-on-patrol.org.uk
www.youtube.com/user/garybuckham