[Closed] My wife doesn't want me to cycle commute. Statistics, anyone?

Maybe STW commuters are a reliable source 🙂 : Commuting here for 5 years now - no offs but a few close calls - country back roads mostly though 🙂

I sometime commute on a bike and... avoid back roads. A-roads are busy but safer as fewer people want to rag their cars there. BTW I'm in Ireland, some say it's mad here but compare it to any large English city Dublin traffic is nothing.

stats are 300-odd cyclists and ped killed a year IIRC...there may be info on what circumstances they were killed in?

I wouldn't use statistics as a deciding factor. I say go ahead and commute. There are things you can do to help reduce your chances of being squashed such as hi-viz clothing, decent lights, choice of route etc. Given you're doing this for health reasons, maybe you should start quoting heart disease figures for the UK...

[i] In a nutshell, my wife basically thinks I'll be hit by a car & die, in fairness based on the fact she had a friend 25 years ago who was indeed killed whilst riding on the road[/i]

A bit like knowing someone who died falling down stairs, so...

But 30 miles each way is a fair haul.

Lots more car drivers killed. I presume if you don't cycle you will drive.

[i]Nearly half (49 per cent) of people killed in road accidents were car users in 2007. Pedal cyclists and motor cyclists represented 5 and 20 per cent of those killed respectively. Occupants of buses, coaches, goods and other vehicles accounted for the remaining 5 per cent of road deaths.[/i]
[url= http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1208 ]http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1208[/url]

[url= http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/accidents/casualtiesgbar/suppletablesfactsheets/pedalcyclist2008.pdf ]DfT cyclist casualty stats[/url].

You need the statistic of deaths/mile travelled though rather than just the absolute numbers.

A bit out of date (10 years) but:

http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/risks_of_travel.htm

Bike: 44.6 fatalities per billion km travelled
Cars: 3.1
So 14x more risk of fatality per distance than a car

or by journey, it's more like 4:1

Obviously you can balance that with other factors like improved health, etc.

get some training (bikeability or similar) first. this imo will reduce your chances- many experienced cyclists have no idea how to protect themselves. i'd say 90% of commuters i see are putting themselves in unnecessary danger.

thomthumb - Member

get some training (bikeability or similar) first. this imo will reduce your chances- many experienced cyclists have no idea how to protect themselves. i'd say 90% of commuters i see are putting themselves in unnecessary danger.

You need the statistic of deaths/mile travelled though rather than just the absolute numbers

not if you want to massage the stats into your favour. 🙂

Saw this [url= http://citybeast.com/cyclingsafetypage.html ]UK Cycling Casualty Map[/url] this morning - quite scary stuff tbh!

I have commuted daily for years, with the current journey being 17 miles each way, done every day.

I've had one accident - a pedestrian stepped into my path.

statistics tell you nothing until you become one!

I got 3 years commuting before my big accident happened , close shaves were an almost daily occurence the majority of drivers just don't seem look for cyclists they don't want to damage there own vehicle against another car.

I used to make a concious effort to be dressed up like a beacon when commuting and in the end it didn't make a lot of difference ,IMO the rural roads are the most dangerous as drivers probably wouldn't expect a bike on these roads early mornings while they make up the 5 mins lost having an extra slice of toast.

My accident was over 10 years ago but you couln't pay me to commute nowadays.

Thanks all. I used to ride a motorbike & I think I have a reasonable level of road/hazard awareness from the perspective of two wheels, though I can see the point about rural roads being more dangerous than major A roads. Other than the risk of a numpty ragging his hot hatch round a blind corner too fast, they're generally a lot more pleasant to ride a pushbike along though. Looking at the fatality stats per km travelled, I don't think those are going to do me any favours!

in four years of london commuting i've had 5 crashes - 2 were self-induced and quite embarrassing, the other three were all kamikaze pedestrians. none serious, though.

I sold my road bike a couple of years ago because the increased traffic and worsening regard car drivers appear to have for cyclists was becoming a problem for me.

IMO there are too many cars and not enough regard for a cyclist as a legitimate unit of traffic for it to be particularly safe anymore. As a result I was in a constant state of apprehension and basically that took the fun away for me.

I still ride tarmac on the MTB, but its a few miles here and there to link trails.

If I had a job with possible commute, I'd try my damnedest to make it completely traffic free cyclepaths, off-road etc...

was knocked off on sunday for the first time ever - by a tractor that misjudged my speed - tucked in on tribars giving it laldy.

must be my first in many thousands of kms of road work.

Be alert.

My missus is giving me the same gyp about wanting a motorbike for the commute - seems to think im going to be a demon speeder - on my 70mph full chat trail bike !

The raw stats are fairly meaningless. If you look deeper into them, I'm sure you'll find certain age groups are more likely to be killed while riding bikes so the comparisons on total numbers won't really tally with your chances.

It also doesn't sound like your wife is arguing from a totally rational base, so stats are unlikely to convince her.

I think you need to convince yourself, rather than her, so you'll be more likely to ignore her arguments. If you look at the biggest causes of death for men, once they're beyond the teenage/young adult reckless-trying-to-impress-girls-and-mates stage, they're pretty much all things with likelihoods that will be reduced by regular exercise...

Everything in life has risk attached. Cycling to work is no different. I doubt that assessment of risk plays a part in the majority of day to day decisions i.e. we don't make choices based on statistical evidence of associated risk.

It sounds like your wife has an overinflated sense of the danger of cycle commuting based on her experience 25 years ago. This is not to be discounted as it will be very real to her.

I would suggest that a reasoned discussion about the choices that we make in life and the enjoyment we get from things might help her to see things from your perspective. You could explain the health benefits and how much more enjoyable your commute will be and how these need to be offset against the risk.

I can't see that offering a statistic to 'trump' hers will get her to see your point of view. Given that she has a view that cycle commuting is dangerous based on a 25 year old experience it is unlikely she will changer her mind in the face of one statistic gleaned off STW:)

Talk to her, ask her to let you try it. Explain that you don't want to be a statistic and you are just as concerned for your own safety as she is etc.

And finally, ask yourself who wears the trousers (tounge firmly in cheek at this point)

My wife doesn't want me to cycle commute.

Perfectly understandable. I'm on her side.
It would be nice if we could ride our bikes to work...
Without riding in fear for our lives or being injured or crippled.
Without having to take daily avoiding action.
Without taking crap from car drivers/school kids/yoofs/etc.
Without being target practice for gobbing/throwing chavs.

5-10 miles maybe, at a push, under protest, if the route was extremely safe. But 30 miles each way!!??? I'm with carlosg, you couldn't pay me to do it.

SB aka coward.

Good point, miketually. You are going to die (sorry) but will cycling make that happen sooner or later. I'd suspect later but no stats to back that up

15 odd years of daily commuting, always ending up in a city centre, and I've only had one serious off in that time. Mind you, that did break both my arms, my right ankle, dislocated my shoulders, right knee cap and left me with some swelling of the brain. But I could equally get off'ed in a car, and as one of my colleagues only just pointed out this morning; I have an arse like a 14 year old paper boy!

Check your area........... 😐

http://citybeast.com/cyclingsafetypage.html

To be fair most people who get knocked off and therefore increase the stats in my opinion are riding like idiots. You get so many people either flying along a break neck speed, jumping lights, etc or you get the people tootling along at such a slow speed they annoy the drivers who then make mistakes and they get knocked off. If you ride at a sensible speed to keep up with the traffic, abide by the rules of the road, no undertaking, etc and always concentrate then you should be fine.

Comute should also be enjoyable so I would stick to the B roads where there are less cars and you can relax a bit more. Commuting by bike is brilliant as it builds all that training into your normal daily schedule and around cities it is much faster than going by car or bus.

You could always use the argument that by get your training in the day, it then leaves more time in the evening and weekend that you can spend with your wife!!

Comute should also be enjoyable so I would stick to the B roads

if your gonna be going at peak times - avoid. Rat runners avoid the carpark - aahem roads around here - wouldnt be caught on them at rush hour sure fire way to end up a statistic and im in relitively quiet aberdeen - compared to england anyway

Every form of transport reduces your life expectancy, except cycling.

Hmm I guess I could always drive a bit, park somewhere secure enough to leave the car & then ride 20 miles or so along the Ridgeway (the office is just off the RW). Might be a decent compromise, if slightly defeating the "no car" part of the exercise.

When I looked a while ago, I'm sure the stats came out as 2x as likely to be killed per km cycling than driving. I remember working out that my colleague who drove in from 12 miles away was more likely to be killed getting to work than I was when cycling 3 miles.

If I got that right... If you drove 20 miles of the journey then rode the last 10, you'd be as likely to be killed on the car journey as the bike journey.

HoratioHufnagel - Member

Every form of transport reduces your life expectancy, except cycling.

not only that, but according to a newspaper headline i saw a few weeks back cycling reduces your risk of dying by 40%. so there's a 40% chance i may not die. 😀

just start doing it and see how you feel

30miles each way is a biggy, especially as some of that is offroad (albeit the ridgeway is pretty fast right now)

i got run over by a car when i was riding a bike, ive never been run over by a bike while driving my car.

proof.

30 miles each way on an MTB would be tough. I do 14 on a road bike and love it, but double that and on fat tyres I think would be really hard.

It's not just the safety of the road that you need to consider but whether you'd actually enjoy the experience. I could ride on the edge of dual carriageway some of my route, which I think would actually be quite safe as it's wide, however it'd be like hell on earth as an experience!

Your compromise sounds the way forward if the main aim of the game is fitness, and after all it's still less miles in the car. I arrive at work with a grin when I ride in as opposed to a scowl as I search for a parking space!

The two road accidents I've had have involved a pedestrian stepping off the pavement and a corner with wet leaves and too much speed.

You don't need stats, you need this pic - what happens if you don't cycle commute...
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

so there's a 40% chance i may not die

and from above there is a 25% chance you will

that leaves 35% limbo time.

heh nice pics. I'd be using a Cross bike (well, a rigid 29er with fast tyres & drops) for the commute. Definitely wouldn't be interested in this sort of commute on a regular MTB as it'd just turn into a chore.

I must admit that despite getting a road bike last year, I use my MTB far more as I seem to have at least one near miss per road ride (with a car). As it's for fun (I don't commute, just ride 3 mornings a week and at weekends) it seems a bit silly to risk life and limb. Spent a lot of time finding a road route with minimal hazards but it's still sketchy.

Too many drivers are just too damn aggressive and cr4p at driving.

Pedalhead you just answered the argument well yourself. Take the cars out of the equation and she should be happy.

I have a 22 mile commute each way and it's a killer to do even on a proper road bike. I have a nasty narrow hilly twisty B road route or the A46 😯 which is very scary or a longer back lane route. Back lanes is easily the most enjoyable and the one I would take given enough time.

However given the length of the journey, I quite often chuck the bike in the car and do an hour or so on the Kennet and Avon towpath which is much more doable on a regular basis. Well until that gets a bit busy with errant pedestrians in the summer.

Wifey doesn't like me using the motorbike at all but is perfectly happy me taking a pedal bike - go figure. 😕 Perhaps you should threaten to get a motorbike for the commute and see what reaction you get 😉

As others have said I wouldn't base the decision on statistics, thats not really a sensible way to live your life.

I ride to work 20 miles each way and have done since 2006, two minor offs and a few close calls. Some of my route is cycle path, the rest is a roads and city traffic.

Riding to work makes me feel fantastic, statistics don't.

My outwards commute involves:

*8 miles through urban and suburban roads.
*9 miles through the countryside, of which most is spent on - straight - B roads, and a short stretch on an A road.

It's the A road which frightens me the most: as I turn onto it there's a sign showing "39 casuaties in last 3 years". And then the HGVs start trundling by.

Select your route carefully, [b]pedalhead[/b], and you'll be as fine as anyone can be riding a bike to work during rush hour.

Life is one big statistic, if they bother you then take up numerology and it will make it worse, you cant think about the finer detail, take a chance, be careful and live a bit

Thanks guys. Just to be clear, I couldn't give a monkey's about the stats, but I'm trying to put my wife's mind at ease as much as possible, which sadly the stats don't really support! I think I'll start with the compromise, park up close to Ridgeway and ride from there. Once she's used to me doing that, I'll look at adding some more distance into it via roads if I feel the need.

Life is one big statistic, if they bother you then take up numerology and it will make it worse, you cant think about the finer detail, take a chance, be careful and live a bit

Sponsored by "No Fear" by any chance?

Surely minimising risks such as being killed on your bike is worthwhile? Everyone likes to pretend that "if they're aren't living on the edge they are taking up too much room, etc" but ending ones ride in a lifeless pile at the roadside does put a downer on anyones day.

I do many "dangerous" sports as do many here but I seriously think road riding is the one most likely to cause an early demise.

Also pedalhead, you need to think about the time this will take you - my commute, though not long, consistently takes up to an hour each way. Were I to drive, it's 25 minutes of a job.

yep thanks mr north, fair point. I have young children, so rather accustomed to getting up with the dawn chorus 🙂 . Plus, I work at home the rest of the time, so get lots of quality time to spend with them even if I'm out of the house early a couple of days a week.

The overall per mile stats are useless, as they include motorways, which are very safe, and have very long distances driven on them, quite a large percentage of the total car miles. If you look at just non-motorway roads, I understand it gets much more comparable on a per mile basis, but I can't find any figures.

I've done tens of thousands of miles on the road over the last 10 years, and yet to have an accident involving a car. I've fallen on ice in winter, and on wet leaves on a semi offroad route, but not hit a car. Part of that is luck, but there is also an element of not riding like a ****, and keeping an eye on what is going on around you that really helps too.

Joe

I have young children, so rather accustomed to getting up with the dawn chorus

I have all this to come in August. 😀

keeping an eye on what is going on around you that really helps too

Agreed. Riding lots on the road, and more so if you follow the same route, you get to understand:

1. what driving behavoiour around you is OK and what is not. Your perception will change the more you're on the roads.

2. Where the bad bits are. Where you need to slow right down. Where you need to position yourself if you need to jump into the hedge. These aren't things you'll necessarily consciously think about, but become a little more second nature as you spend more time on the route.

Also, you need to think about how you might alter your route because of weather or the time of year. My route is new (as a commuting route) and I'm not sure I will take it as it is during the winter months, mainly because of road conditions, visibility for drivers, etc.

yes that was another reason I figured I'd start now, in the summer, as (in theory at least) the weather & visibility should make things safer. On a dark, rainy winter evening though, as a car driver I do get worried for cyclists I overtake on the roads.

A while back there were 3 of us doing the same long distance commute once a week. Thats good for motivation, faster, and there is safety in numbers.

Where are you going along the ridgeway? Must be someone else who would fancy it

Get your wife to read [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Risk-Science-Politics-Dan-Gardner/dp/0753515539/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275996275&sr=8-1 ]Risk, by Dan Gardner[/url]. Then get her to imagine you, obese, collapsing with a heart attack at 55.

I'm always surprised how much all you apparently gnarly mtb dudes wimper at the thought of riding on the road. Its not that difficult or that hard, however it does require a modicum of common sense and self preservation tinged with an understanding of your own rights to use the road.

Negative perceptions of cycling die hard. I remember growing up in the 80s, cycling and walking were portrayed as dangerous activities where a car could mow you down at any second unless you were festooned with hi-viz crap.

Our school even had posters up depiciting a cyclist with a "soft vehicle" sticker on his back, and the legend "It's always the cyclist who gets hurt". 🙄 For the first 18 years of my life, I went round thinking that cycling was like Russian Roulette on wheels, and every car that passed you was a hair's breadth from reducing you to a jammy pulp.

the majority of drivers just don't seem look for cyclists

The majority of drivers clearly do! The overall accident rate is tiny. Plus the more people who do it, the safer it gets:

http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/9/3/205.abstract

My commute is 20 miles ew, the first/last 15 on very narrow lanes, too narrow for cars to go fast along them, the last/first 5 miles are through a town and while there is traffic it's not too bad. There are a couple of spots that carry a higher risk and I'm careful at these points. I've only had one incident where I narrowly avoided t-boning a car that pulled out on me, other than that, in 4 years of twice a week riding I've not had any issues, I have had to fine-tune the route to avoid some of the worst bits and it now takes me 10 minutes longer, that means I have more exercise so it's all good.

Yesterday I rode from Telford to Stroud to accompany some collegues doing JOGLE on one of their stages, a lot of those roads were ****ing awful and I'm suprised all 12 of us got there in one piece!

Tough one - you can make statistics tell you pretty much anything you want in this case; at the end of the day it sounds like your wife has very real fears and you don't want to simply brush them aside.

I do 12 miles in each direction every day, about 7 of those are on canal towpath, the rest on busy urban roads. I'm sure I'm not alone in preferring busy roads with slow-moving traffic to quiet country roads at commute times. Touch wood I've never been knocked off - the closest I ever came was being shoved over to the left by a slow-moving car who suddenly decided to park, but this was entirely my own fault as I'd filtered up the left hand side.

Years of riding on roads have made me ride assertively - I'm seldom closer than a metre (from my left elbow) to the kerb, I sit in the middle of a lane where there's more than one lane in the direction I'm going, I signal early and repeatedly, make eye contact with any driver looking to cross my path, always look over my shoulder, hold the middle approaching traffic islands or anywhere the road narrows etc etc.

You do get the occasional boorish moron infuriated by this sort of thing, but I think the majority of drivers prefer you to make your intentions clear, rather than have to try and guess what you might do. All this though is tempered by the ever-present knowledge that a simple lapse in concentration by someone could wipe you out, but that could happen to you in a car as well.

Every now and again you get an incident which brings that home and makes you nervous - last year a woman roared past me then immediately turned sharply left, leaving me to jam the brakes on and miss her near side by less than 6 inches. I followed her into the carpark she was turning into and as calmly as I could asked her if she'd like to see pictures of the two little boys whose dad she almost just killed. I don't know who came away more shaken, her or me.

Mrs tyred is a keen cyclist and would love to get into road riding, but is too frightened by the prospect of riding near any traffic. Unless you're doing it, its easy for anyone to see it as dangerous.

Sorry, this doesn't offer much of a solution for you!

30 miles each way is a long commute. Don't disregard the amount of time it'll take, and that's time away from your wife. My commute takes me between 35 and 45 minutes depending on route, bike and conditions, and I don't think Mrs tyred would be too enthusiastic about it being any longer, as it eats into the time I have to spend with her and the kids. Having said that, driving it or taking the train probably wouldn't reduce it by that much.

Mark .. tell her you will ride a horse there and back each way instead 😉 see how she takes that!!

Mark .. tell her you will ride a horse there and back each way instead see how she takes that!!

😆 She'd probably fear more for the poor drivers of Oxfordshire than for me in that case!

Where are you going along the ridgeway?

The office isn't far from Barbury Castle, and I'll look to do a 15 or 20 mile ride from the east, depending on where I can find some secure parking.