My local trails got bulldozed

That's shit.

Something similar happened in some local woods a couple of years back, apparently the solution to off road vehicles damaging the trail is to drive heavy machinery all over it and tear down trees.

the land owner (country council) was asked, and gave permission. Contingent upon everything being rollable, no gaps…

Recently there have been a few doubles built,

Maybe it would have been wise to talk to the landowner before building the doubles. It only takes one accident for trails to get bulldozed.

Yes, that's pretty rubbish.
Communication, as others have said, is key to maintaining any informal trail in the long term.
We have had periods of conflict, angst, and also cooperation locally around Glamis with the network of xc trails. Currently in a state of truce and some reconciliation but it only takes one tricky incident for it all to kick off again, land management and gamekeepers blocking sections or dog walkers chucking sequences of branches over the trail.
Good luck with that mess but hopefully by taking the right approach, you can get a restart to your network and get some progress underway.

We are own worst enemy aren't we?

We are heading that way in my area too. Not so much doubles as just the shear number of trails. Time was when there was just a few people at it, so just a few lines. These days, everyone wants to leave there mark, build something unique... in reality, its just the same thing, over and over again, with lots of muddy exits that are impossible to hide.

And yes, I was part of the problem but these days I tend try to fix problems that others create, such as drainage, lines of sight, etc. And try and chat with the builders to see if I can get them to see the longer view. Their attitude is that they 'live to dig/ride' and **** everyone else.

And I know I'm going to flamed for this by some but local to me, 2 small area's that had either none or few trails are now filling up because the builders ride eeb's now, so don't mind the short steep ride back up. They bang in 5 or 6 lines and can knock out 5 min laps. That said, I do like riding them but its a 15 min lap using leg power 🙂

If its not your land, you can't get too upset if you lose it.

It's a weird situation we have in the UK with land owners responsibility isn't it? Despite having permission or even liability waivers the land owner is ultimately responsible for injuries in their land.

I don't think anything built there was unsafe, I would have taken my five year old down it. Everything has a chicken option, even the stream gap has a wooden bridge.

People just dug and rode for themselves. A really well built double over the stream was made, with wood retainers to keep it the right length and stop it eroding into the stream. Every week someone would pull out the logs and throw them in the stream. Then case the jump until it was longer than it needed to be.

Have to agree with Mugboo , if it's not your land etc . Our local woods have been cleared for Ash die back , the local yoofs have used their initiative and used some of the felled timber to create new stuff which is fine to a point .
Up at Rowberrow Woods on. Mendip the land is owned by someone in London and managed by FC . Landowner has given permission for 2 legal trails with strict conditions. People started moaning about sanitisation and how the unofficial stuff was much better. I pointed out that although nobody likes the situation and the fact that it's owned by an outsider who has an area fenced off to rear pheasants for Rich clients to shoot when they are big enough it's not our land so we have to suck it up unfortunately.

Any pics of the bulldozed 'features'?

This was the stream gap

Before

The builders are doing themselves no favours using wood.

I can't work out why that tree has been snapped, seems wanton, and nothing to do with the stream gap.

Contingent upon everything being rollable, no gaps…

That's not easily rollable for a beginner.

It goes over a stream, you can't roll it. Ever. Two metres to the left of the pic is the original stream jump which existed for years and has a bridge next to it if you want to roll it

Why would anyone consider that the construction of that ramp is valid. Eyesore that may be acceptable if the landowner welcomes it but otherwise. completely wrong.

It goes over a stream, you can’t roll it. Ever.

So, it’s a built feature that can’t be rolled over… exactly what the landowner proscribed? Because they didn’t want to have to deal with the fallout of someone hitting something unrollable on their land and coming off badly?

You're right, although I don't agree with the idea of someone else being responsible if you can't clear something and didn't take the chicken option, ultimately it was against the agreement.

It just smacks of schadenfreude, the destruction of trees. They've turned something that used to be enjoyed by loads of people, into a scene from hamburger hill and killed a load of trees. For what? They could have flattened two gaps in under an hour. Instead they spent what looks like a day destroying the entire site.

Perhaps someone did have a massive off and is threatening action. That liability needs changing

Perhaps the story of the wire strung across a trail recently was true...

Local Tuesday night loop has a wooded part, we spent a while making a path it had a little jump but all ok.
Last week a jump appeared Thursday evening went past and it was totalled the new jump was wrecked and the old wee one had been dug up. Also around a blind corner a trunk 6" across was dragged across the path.

Some woods near me recently got 'the treatment' and honestly I'm not suprised.

Pretty much all the trails are well into the woods. One main line which was incredible - bike park quality berms and features. Excellent drainage - the lot. One of the jumps on that trail got pretty big and I started saying this is what FC don't want.

Other side of the wood some huge gaps were built as well.

But I think the final straw was a trail that was *very* visible from the main path that was being built up with some big (and really badly designed) features. I think if FC had left it alone when that travesty was easily visible from their main access point to the wood they would have struggled to fight any negligence battle.

Oh yea, and visitor numbers. THey were through the roof. Doesn't help.

This has happened years ago even in private woodland. Trails had been untouched for years then as soon as jumps started to appear the landowner flattened and destroyed everything.

That liability needs changing

Changing to what?
You can only go after the people who built the features if you definitely know who they are, so realistically, the landowners (or their managers) are the only ones who can actually be pursued.
Can’t really blame them for being cautious about risk.

Those images above, fair enough removing the ‘illegal’ (for want of a better word) features, but that looks like someone enjoyed making an absolute mess of a piece of land.

Oooh, it gets more interesting. A local trail builder contacted the land owners, who knew nothing about it. Someone was seen accessing the site on Wednesday with a digger, and they removed the post instead of unlocking a gate...

Looks like it was not land-owner sanctioned. Would certainly explain the level of destruction.

That is a pretty bizarre way for a land owner to close a trail - by damaging their own trees. I can't even see how they did it - were there obvious vehicle/digger tracks? Are you sure it's the landowner? Edit - looks like I might have been on the right path.

On the overstepping the mark on someones land - it's kind of obvious where the line is for most people. At work (teacher) with teens, it's normally the stupids rather than the arrogant ones that **** it up for everyone in my experience. You can turn a blind eye and most will realise a tacit unspoken understanding has been entered into that they know you know but are electing to turn a blind eye and they'll do their level best not to overstep the mark and appreciate what you're doing. It's the stupids who then put their size 12s right over the line so you have no choice but to be seen to go by the official policy. Not sure if it's because they have no awareness there is a game everyone is playing; or maybe they mistake the fact the official rules are being broken as a sign of weakness and want to see how far it can be pushed thinking they are the ones in charge, or is it just that they have no ability to decentre and understand there is only so far the person 'in authority' can allow things to deviate before there is a consequence for that person with responsibility if something went wrong.

A local trail builder contacted the land owners, who knew nothing about it.

The damage to the trees suggested that might be the case. My guess is that a local kid hurt himself and a parent with access to a digger took it upon themselves to remove what they saw as the hazard responsible.

Changing to what?

Liability only in the case of something built to cause harm, e.g. wire across a path, sticks spiked into ground after a jump are there to cause harm. Otherwise no liability. A jump it's self is not built to cause harm it's riders responsibility to check it out just as it's riders responsibility not to ride into a tree and max speed.

That would certainly explain the, frankly, bizarre amount of collateral damage
Edit, that was written a millisecond before the bricks comment

Im going with irate dog walker or local nimby. Had a run in with some bikers and the usual sweary shouty escalation ensued.
Except dog walker owns or has access to heavy machinery. 30 mins later and the 'I'll teach them not to swear at me / nearly run over the dog / pin me down and insert frozen sausages where they shouldn't go,' and the trails are trashed
FC did it up my way. 4 legit trails built on an sssi with consultation, then the hard of thinking built more, in an out of bounds area. Now the lots gone.

Looks like it was not land-owner sanctioned. Would certainly explain the level of destruction.

It did seem strange a landowner would make such a mess. Keep us informed of the gossip.

If my ancient insurance qualifications haven't been overtaken, the liability aspect goes back to the Occupiers Liability Act 195?, something to do with making the landowner responsible for the safety of trespassers.

Update:

Lots of people on Facebook organising to re-build, can't view it myself as I have no account...

Definitely no permission or involvement of the land owner. They're in the process of re-negotiating building rules. Flow, no exposed holes or logs. Some clearing up has already started and some organised build days in the calendar, plus a nominated point of contact between council and builders.

My money is either on a really angry neighbour/walker, or a parent of someone who had a crash. I used to see plenty of teenagers out there with no helmets...

Well that's a good outcome, sounds like you have a great landlord!

Another update:

I've been away crashing at BPW, when I got back there's been some action. Local riders got organised and started to clear up the destruction. I was saying to buddies on the Wales trip what's the point, it'll just get destroyed again...

Looks like that happened, all the clearing has already been trashed. Which points to a regular visitor or neighbour who is motivated to stop fun. I don't want to go back, especially after the wire threat.

Latest update from the facebook group:

Local group have already re-cleared a few of the trails and set up some remote cameras. They've caught an old fella with a dog dragging branches across trails but nothing more than that.

They think they have identified the culprit, who appears to be linked to the company that runs the forest management for the land owner. The land owner definitely said though, that he was not aware of the destruction and didn't order it.

I'm reluctant to go back, especially after finding out about the wire trap that was set. Plus "digger guy" is still out there waiting to f*** it all up again..

It's kind of a moot point at the moment, I can't ride while I wait for ribs to heal. When I get back on the bike, looks like I'll have to drive somewhere first...

Logs is one thing, wire traps quite another. Police.

It's always some lone random idiot dragging branches across a trail to stop folk riding it. No idea of the consequences.

Another update, I've finally seen the destruction first hand. First ride after my crash. I bumped into the locals who originally made the trails and are re-building. And for those locals who spotted, it is the Pembury trails near Tunbridge Wells Kent.

Walkers V riders: One old local has been identified with trap cams, walks one big white dog and another brown one (who chase people and don't seem to be under control). White hair, 60-70. He drags logs over trails almost every morning apparently...
The trails were freshly cut up to 20 years ago in between the walking routes (fire roads) deliberately for riding. But some people think they are walking trails still.

Bulldozer guy: Was identified and someone even managed to speak to him about it. He got aggressive apparently. But, he was working with the permission of the land management company Till Hill (or something like that). KCC still deny any knowledge though. The story of him breaking in, may have just been that the gate wasn't wide enough. As far as anyone can tell, no-one complained or crashed.

TLDR: An ancient agreement with KCC to build trails that are "rollable" cannot be located. A guy working for a forestry management company sees the trails, decides they're dangerous and rips them up. KCC deny any knowledge, no aggrieved complainer or crash victim involved. Locals incensed, start re-building and building up evidence against other low-level saboteurs (including wire traps), the place is a mixture of new-ish trails that are ok, and a scene out of Platoon.

Here's a once healthy pushed over so he could access and destroy a feature:
https://ibb.co/GHtzDXM

He even removed the bridges over the stream, that formed the "chicken option" if you didn't fancy hopping a metre over the water:
https://ibb.co/wdYtXPc
More carnage: https://ibb.co/TW6kVQ8

I found some new trails last weekend in some Nottinghamshire woodland. Went back today, and they've all been flattened 😭

Did the nottinghamshire trail builders have permission?
If not, so what if trails have been destroyed?
References to 'cheeky' trails etc are an attempt to justify doing something without the landowner's permission.

How would I know? I don't go round checking that all of the trails have had landowners permission before I ride them.

Agree with the principal but in England that is unlikely to do you any favours. I suspect if the landowner decided to get shirty and have you charged with trespass then ignorance isn't a suitable defence in the eyes of the law and all that.

It is easy enough to check a map to see what is allowed on the ground and what you can ride (although that does remove the fun from rising a bike).

Most of the woods in Nottinghamshire are Forestry England. People ride bikes, horses and walk dogs on unofficial and waymarked trails all over the place. A lot of the woods used to host XC races. I'm not sure how looking at a map would tell me that - they aren't bridleways or footpaths.

I don't think anyone has ever been charged with trespass for riding a cheeky trail.

Blocking and trashing trails is a good each way bet for arseholes who aren't the landowner. There are three very likely outcomes for them.

1. Riders give up and go elsewhere.

2. Someone gets badly hurt by a trap and the landowner decides it is just too much hassle and does the trashing 'properly'.

3. There is so much rancour and complaint created that the outcome is as 2.

It boils my piss, TBH, but the desire to now 'build' everywhere is getting out of hand in some places. There is a difference between riding and riding in trails and taking a spade to the ground and starting earthworks.

Whipping off the odd errant branch cleanly and subtly is a lot different to felling a sapling. Riding a trail until a rut appears or a natural berm is ridden in is very different from creating a 20ft gap with associated massive f-off borrow pit. Etc.

@raify. I have just seen your post. I was riding those trails for the first time this year a couple of weeks ago and had a surprise on nearly every trail! The biggest surprise was on the other side of the hill to the stream gap where a well-made wooden bridge across a ditch after a few jumps was, unknown to me totally destroyed. I was very close to a big moment there.

The thing that doesn't make sense to me, apart from the senseless destruction that you have already pointed out, is that if this work was carried out by an approved land agent then they should have gone through the correct (and as I understand it) legal process of putting up warning signs prior to the work indicating the closure of each trail. Once the work had been carried out, the trails should have had closed signs put up at each entrance and be clearly blocked. What has been carried out is extremely dangerous as numpties like me have ridden down trails not realising that they have been closed and blocked until coming round a corner. Whoever is behind this has created more danger and damage than any trail building.

I haven't got any contact details of the guys that built the trails, but I am more than happy to come and lend a hand in re-building when time allows me to. Although it will probably be better once we know that they're not going to get flattened again though.

Have a search on Facebook for something like pembury builds / digs. I'm afraid I haven't got an account so can't find the links. Local builder I spoke to yesterday said all are welcome.