[Closed] My flange has fell off

over two years old? Its broken buy a new one. Completely pointless trying to get a manufacturer to do anything about it. You might get lucky and they do it for goodwill but they have no obligation to do anything at that point

tjagain - Member
over two years old? Its broken buy a new one. Completely pointless trying to get a manufacturer to do anything about it. You might get lucky and they do it for goodwill but they have no obligation to do anything at that point

It's off topic as it doesn't apply in this case, but UK law says otherwise.

I suppose that's a problem with high spoke count wheels - the holes on the hub are closer together so it's more likely the flange will fail.
Pretty surprised that has gone though. Really high spoke tension? Riding in lots of salt and filth that seldom gets cleaned off properly? The hub does look pretty dirty.

NewRetroTom - Member
I suppose that's a problem with high spoke count wheels - the holes on the hub are closer together so it's more likely the flange will fail.
Pretty surprised that has gone though. Really high spoke tension? Riding in lots of salt and filth that seldom gets cleaned off properly? [b]The hub does look pretty dirty[/b].

It does, but I promise it's not that bad! 😆 And certainly hasn't been stored or left in that state for any period of time, unlike winter/touring bikes with similar hubs (that are still trucking).

daleftw

It's off topic as it doesn't apply in this case, but UK law says otherwise.

really? - citation please

At over 6 months old you have to show that it is a manufacturing fault that was present at the time of sale. Given that his is a fairly cheap product then the expert metallurgy investigation required to check this would be prohibitively expensive and there are plenty of other possible reasons why it failed. corrosion, impact, overtight spokes etc.

My advice is don't waste your time an money on it.

I got a high end tandem hub replaced for that back in the day. Can't remember how old it was, pretty sure well under 2y though. In your situation I'd just get a new one.

It's relatively cheap, not worth the hassle, but I'd be surprised if the actual manufacturer wasn't interested in helping you despite the age of the hub. Not that easy to get in touch with Shimano though!

you can see in the picture where it's cracked and corroded before finally giving up the ghost.

2 years plus that mileage? Just rehub the wheel and move on.

you can see in the picture where it's cracked and corroded before finally giving up the ghost.

[b]2 years plus that mileage?[/b] Just rehub the wheel and move on.

There’s corrosion around every spoke hole. Looks like it’s been stored wet fairly frequently. As others have said, nothing to pursue here.

its not twice a year - this is a failure at over two years

Are we really saying hubs are only good for 4000 miles?

Time you've spent on here and chasing retailer it could've been rebuilt by now.

zilog6128 - Member
Are we really saying hubs are only good for 4000 miles?
agree it's poor, can't really see what you can do though if the retailer is not interested. Could try Shimano, they might well just tell you to contact the retailer/local distributor though. Bit unfair to involve Madison, seeing as you went out of your way to ensure they didn't earn on the purchase

tjagain - Member
its not twice a year - this is a failure at over two years

4000 miles is twice a year. Time, as is the case in most warranty issues, is irrelevant as opposed to usage.

NOpe - time is relevant see the various consumer acts and corrosion is time not usuage dependent

[i]4000 miles is twice a year.[/i]

Except in this case you took 2 years to do 6 months worth of miles?

Are we really saying hubs are only good for 4000 miles? We've now got to a point where we replace hubs twice a year?

Nope, just the point where we accept sometimes things break earlier than we'd like, 7500k isn't a small amount of distance. If the next one does the same then maybe look at if you're the only one or if it is the expected life span. Equally you might find the next is still going strong after 50 years and 200,000k, i don't suppose you'd be wanting to complain to the mfr at that point that it's far exceeded the expected life span would you?

Sometimes things break. Sometimes they last seemingly forever. Usually somewhere in the middle. So long as it's not ludicrously early to fail, just live with that reality and move on.

Can't really tell from the picture, but is that all corrosion pitting all over the body?

Give it a proper wipe and post another picture up.

If you look at the spoke elbow in the intact hole immediately to the left of the failure, you can see the sheer spoke tension has ripped through about 1mm of flange. Insofar as is possible from just looking at one photo, I’d be inclined to think the build was rather over-tensioned.

Except in this case you took 2 years to do 6 months worth of miles?

I guess this comes down to whether its the tiem that killed the hub or the usage.

Are we happy to say it would have broken at 2 years if it'd only done 500 miles? Or conversely if he'd done 4000 miles in 6 months?

In this case corrosion might have had a part to play, it might not, but either way 4000 miles or 2 years is a very poor life expectancy for an Ultegra hub.
Time alone (with no corrosion) should have little to no effect, it's the miles and loads that do it, so if a failure happens at 4000 miles it's largely irrelevant whether it took 2 years or 2 months.

Are we really saying hubs are only good for 4000 miles? We've now got to a point where we replace hubs twice a year?

Modern expectations have changed a bit though...

Back in the day Maxi-Car hubs were oft praised for only needing their first re-grease/service at 10,000+ miles, you'd think int he following 40 odd years we'd be at the point where we can expect at least that, or more, not less. People would expect to get many times that mileage before even considering replacing bearings. A flange failure was almost unheard of on [i]decent [/i]hubs, but then they were often thicker and heavier.

The push for ever-lighter and cheaper is partly to blame I'm sure, but generally Shimano hubshells are pretty reliable compared to others.

In this situation I'd be disappointed but move on...it would be nice if the manufacturer stood behind it and replaced, but I'd just get a new as the hassle of chains it is not worth it 🙁

tjagain - Member
NOpe - time is relevant see the various consumer acts and corrosion is time not usuage dependent

Ah, like the Sale of Goods Act? Which states goods should last a reasonable length of time? 2 years isn't reasonable...

wwaswas - Member

Except in this case you took 2 years to do 6 months worth of miles?

ghostlymachine - Member
Can't really tell from the picture, but is that all corrosion pitting all over the body?

Give it a proper wipe and post another picture up.

No, it's just a photo took in shite conditions with an Instagram filter liberally applied (after two days of riding in shite weather without a break) 😆 I might throw up a photo of the rear hub on my fixie, that'll make you wince...

Bez - Member
If you look at the spoke elbow in the intact hole immediately to the left of the failure, you can see the sheer spoke tension has ripped through about 1mm of flange. Insofar as is possible from just looking at one photo, I’d be inclined to think the build was rather over-tensioned.

Yep, that's my thinking as well and is the angle I've went with in my latest correspondence with the retailer (they built 'em).

I had a Mavic one do that - it was on my commuter and somewhat neglected like the one in the pic. If you don't clean road grime, rain, salt and shit off your hubs, they corrode. I am not a scientist but I think corrosion weakens metal.
Buy a new one.

(Mavic replaced mine 🙂 )

In the OP you asked:
[i]
Any advice as to how to proceed? [/i]

People have been giving you their advice. You seem determined to argue with any advice that doesn't agree with how you were going to proceed before you asked the question.

It's a shame the hub broke but arguing with people saying 'shit happens and you're out of statutory warranty period' is not going to change that.

i had a 15 year old hope mono do this.

so i put it in the back of the shed and replaced the wheel.

HTH

Yep, that's my thinking as well and is the angle I've went with in my latest correspondence with the retailer (they built 'em).

To be fair it also looks (caveat: low quality photo) like there’s salt corrosion around the flange holes, too. I think really this is a confluence of multiple factors: 11 speed hub demands high tension, builder maybe goes overboard on it, the flanges get over-pulled, chemical corrosion sets into small cracks, it gradually becomes brittle and fractured, and a 36 spoke hub will fail a bit before a 32 in these circumstances. It’s like Amedias pointed out: the constant chasing of lighter stuff, more gears, and quicker/cheaper labour all mean that it’s too easy for the various issues to come together. I’d put this one down to experience unless the drive side tension is particularly wild.

i had a 15 year old hope mono do this.

plain gauge spokes?

(after salt, and high-spoke-count have already been covered)

Yep, that's my thinking as well and is the angle I've went with in my latest correspondence with the retailer (they built 'em).

And when they tell you to return them, at your cost for them to say
(A) spoke tension is way off, you've ridden it with [2 spokes missing] it's completely unevenly tensioned. Nothing we will do as it all points to you breaking it/not maintaining it.
(B) we think you broke it but as a good will gesture we'll give you a new hub, but rebuild will be €x shipping is x.
(C) we think you broke it but, we'll replace it and rebuild it free, shipping to the UK is your problem.

What exactly will you gain vs the cost of the hub?

Get over it buy a new one save your self the stress and hassle.

Also it broke 20k into a ride and rather than turn around you rode another 180 after bodging the heavily loaded drive side of your rear wheel, so even if it didn't look like you knackered it before it certainly will now. If your that mechanically sympathetic all the time I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.

I've did that mileage in about 25 rides by my reckoning

On a slight aside, if you're really averaging 300k a time I'd suggest paying a bit more attention to your kit pre ride - I really can't imagine that was a spontaneous failure with no warning signs of stress or fatigue to the flange.

daleftw

Consumer protection act IIRC nowadays

Reasonable has a specific meaning in law.

What the law says is that under 6 months old a manufacturing defect is assumed. Over 6 months old you have to show its a manufacturing defect. given that there are several alternative explanations as to why it failed and that it would cost you far more than its worth to find out then its simply not worth the bother.

New hub.

Move on.

Next.

£75 for a new hub.

Or waste your time chasing some unlikely resolution.