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Well I didn't get the sense that the OP was "complaining" about the cost. Only that it was expensive (it is) and was asking how people afforded it. Only answer really is some can some can't. Unless you want to make sacrifices in other areas it's a matter of picking and choosing what events to attend. Pick the lower key grass root type things, try and stay as local as possible and things become more manageable.
The only thing to worry about is if JR starts to show real talent !! You'll find it harder then not to do the big events, get all the kit and start chasing things. That's when the costs really start to ramp up.
My mates lad competed in SDA races for years, he gave up his golf membership, only ran one car, cut his cloth accordingly to pay for it.
Maybe that hot tub of yours would pay a race a month?
My op was genuinely wondering how folk managed to do it every weekend,
It's quite simple. Either the parents are well enough off or they skint themselves doing it, or, the kids chip in as well. If your'e passionate about something you'll find a way.
My mate used to ride m/c trials when I did years ago, god knows how much he's spent on his lad over the years. He had a new Gasser or Beta/whatever every couple of years. He's now in his 20's & pays for most of it himself but his dad still spends loads, but he's just as keen.
What esselgruntfuttock said. If you have a kid racing that's what you do. That's all you do. All your time and money. Probably more so with motorsports but not much.
OP your son can race for free! Well at least at any Southen Enduro race or South West Enduro Race. Lots of other organiser offer the same.
All you got to do is Marshal in exchange for his entry. Thought?
Was going to say this, lots of organisers do it.
Put one on then.
Whilst maybe a flippant comment, I do agree. Even if its just an unofficial thing with a group of mates in the local woods, stopwatch , pen and paper and radios. Clearly not the same as a national race but effectively free and still a lot of fun.
In response to the comment about BC, I know of at least one multi million £ case against an organiser still being fought on their behalf by BC and their insurers. I also think its as well to remember all the others that have been taken out over the years where BC have carried the can. Easy to moan, and I’d be the first to say they are not perfect, but not so easy to do.
...... and its commissaires.... commissars are some weird Russian political bloke. NB: Comms are unpaid volunteers who only charge travelling and accommodation costs. If thats costing a lot its because there are no local volunteers.
Having got into organising bike events recently I can see how prices are so high I run fairly low key events and its an eye opener for costs of stuff to hire like toilets /generators but I,ve never done it for profit so the event relies totally on ticket sales and land owners get a cut usually to a charity .
Which gives me the chance to say get yourselves to the www.southlakesbikefest.com
Rich
question on how folk manage to race regularly and therefore get better and therefore get on to the scene more
Because they have nmore disposable income and don't find spending a couple hundred every weekend to be a big deal?
National DH events being 90 quid plus a bc membership, Pearce cycles dh 75 quid and the pmba enduros 50 quid.
Quite a lot of costs associated with setting up a DH race and I've more than likely missed a few off.
-Marshalls
-Sign on/organisation staff
-First aid team
-Commentator
-Timekeeping
-BC Commisares
-BC Fees
-Booking system cost
-Track taping/setup
-Track maintenance
-Diesel for uplift vehicles
-Maintenance for uplift vehicles
-Drivers for uplift vehicles
-Renting of field for pits/parking/etc
-Toilets
-Skips/Rubbish disposal
If he's as good as you say then the podium prizes are often (RRP) more than cost of entering.
Source: Southern and Pedalhounds enduro, my better half came 3rd in fun women once, I've never got close.
If he’s as good as you say then the podium prizes are often (RRP) more than cost of entering.
I can see the appeal of prize funds, but do they actually attract people or just cost money?
If you're a podium contender then
a) you'll probably be there anyway because you enjoy racing
b) your sponsors will probably want you there
c) you may or may not be making a living out of your sponsors, media etc.
If you're outside the top ten then surely you'd rather buy 5x lottery tickets with better odds of winning than give Steve Peat ot the Athertons, or whoever's turned up a fiver for the privilege of nominally racing against them.
Ditto sponsors donating stuff as prizes. For a while there was a series giving out a set of forks (888's I think) for the fastest time on the day. As a result of the fastest person always being a pro with supplied forks there were always brand new 888's on ebay!
If you think MTB is expensive consider taking up
a motorsportflying.
FTFY
Serious point, yes racing can be expensive, but it is the cost of travel that will swamp the equipment costs for many. You can get 4/5 of the performance for about 1/5 of teh cost of the most expensive kit. Watcj a junior road race, and some will be on the most bling £5K bikes, and others... not. Off road, and downhill, I'm sure that more money will get you a better bike and better performance, bur theer will still be economies of scale. I think money wol dbe better spent on a coach, taining and skills.
The UK 25 mile TT was won ona £1K bike a couple of years ago - that cost less than the rear wheel of most of the competitors!
XC racing in Ulster.
£15 adult entry fee.
£2 for my under 10
£1 for my Under 6 fun racer.
They both have an annual race licence, costing £9. Though that rose from £5 last year. I was apoplectic about an 80% increase in a childs licence fee but looking at the price of what some of you are paying for a race entry, I will just pipe down now.
Cyclocross is even cheaper as the adult entry fee was £12 last year.
The power of a regional body organising the series and member clubs running the races is massive.
I can see the appeal of prize funds, but do they actually attract people or just cost money?
If you’re a podium contender then
a) you’ll probably be there anyway because you enjoy racing
b) your sponsors will probably want you there
c) you may or may not be making a living out of your sponsors, media etc.
referencing wrightyson's son (wrightygrandson?) he's racing U14, at regional type races. No way is that cash prize. It could well get him a £50 tyre or helmet to either use or flog.
Surely nobody at that age is getting more than free shirt, free race entry and possibly discount on purchasing a bike
If he’s as good as you say then the podium prizes are often (RRP) more than cost of entering.
Source: Southern and Pedalhounds enduro, my better half came 3rd in fun women once, I’ve never got close.
For Southern's we work on:
1st £60-70 (RRP)
2nd £40-50 (RRP)
3rd £20-30 (RRP)
and we have 15 categories. (6 of them being ladies cats)
Cash in hand tax dodging jobs I think... joke
Take a look at motorsports. Even club level karting can costs hundreds if not thousands a weekend for nationals. Parents obviously make compromises elsewhere in their lives. A lot aren't rich.
And don't forget how you practise these motorsports - by opening your wallet again, to nearly the same extent as a race.
Even ball sports (apart from football) you'll be outlaying to train and practise.
Train for enduro on your own for almost free* in your local woods
*as you've already got the bike
Asking where all the other cheap races are then being told to run your own and saying that you won't cos you can't is the reason there aren't more cheap races on. Not a criticism, but loads of people would like to do this stuff but don't have the time.
I recognise the OP isn't saying they're overpriced - it's just the only way more grass roots stuff happens is by more people helping to run it.
Probably more so with motorsports but not much.
Oh I'd disagree with this, a lot much for most motorsports.
Take a look for any of the grass roots stuff - there are 'Mid Week Madness' events in Manchester, for example, that are run by local cycling clubs, and it's aimed at all levels.
And for reference if anyone in the south wants to get their kids racing for free/in exchange for marshalling let me know. Unlike PMBA you race in age groups with your peers.
Oh I’d disagree with this, a lot much for most motorsports.
Depends on the motorsport I'd guess. My experience is MX and enduro but I've found travelling to events and all the associated kit pretty comparable. If you're serious about your racing mountainbikes and travel all of the country I can only imagine it's over half the price of it's motorised cousin.
Mates races are cool too, this was one of the last ones I organised before becoming a proper event organiser.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/QECP-Mates-RaceTrack-Test-2013.html
Edit: I forgot about the KV Mega, that was the last mates race. That was fun 🙂
Depends on the motorsport I’d guess. My experience is MX and enduro but I’ve found travelling to events and all the associated kit pretty comparable. If you’re serious about your racing mountainbikes and travel all of the country I can only imagine it’s over half the price of it’s motorised cousin.
Ah admittedly I was thinking of 4 wheeled motorsports - by the time you've got a car that meets regs, a license etc. then to actually go and race... Maybe not tooo much for sprints/hillclimbs and certainly affordable for things like autotests, but racing on a circuit gets very pricey very quickly.
Take a look for any of the grass roots stuff – there are ‘Mid Week Madness’ events in Manchester, for example, that are run by local cycling clubs, and it’s aimed at all levels.
London Beastway is £2 for kids.
My son dives at Junior Elite level. Last three years he has done GB championships. First two years were down in Plymouth, this year was Sheffield. I'm self employed so once you factor in the time off work to take him down and other expenses like accomodation and travel it's the best part of a grand a time. You have to pay to watch too. He's just been to a competition in Croatia, another £500. And that was after we spent a lot of time fundraising to get the costs down. My other half pays the monthly fees, I don't even know how much that is, I'd rather not know. Luckily we're in the top bracket with what we pay so last year when they upped his training to about 16 hours a week we didn't have to pay anymore. Last year he was group A (oldest category for Juniors) Scottish Champion on 3m springboard and platform (10m like Tom Daley) and he was diving up an age group. This got him onto the Scottish development squad which means a couple of extra weekends training and a paid competition in Eindhoven and some t-shirts. No financial help though, not that we were expecting it. That's just the way it is for most sports I reckon but one of the problems now is Talent Identification which is where they go round the schools and test the kids to see if they fit a profile that suggests they could be good at a certain type of sport. I know parents who were delighted their kids were selected but there's nothing to warn you how much it could cost. I spend far too much time thinking about this but it's been great for him and he's doing well, hopefully he could be at the Commonwealth games in Birmingham, I've put my life on hold for just now, now is his time.
An interesting topic this. Until recently I hadn't really considered the cost of racing from a 'I want to compete' viewpoint, I have only entered races for myself from time to time and my success gauge was set at 'If I don't come last I am happy'. I entered @Scottfitz enduro event a few times which I thought was excellent value for money, and this year have done some grass roots downhill races with Root1 which have also been a fair price for an adult funding himself.
I then had my eyes opened when I spent a day with a 19yr old downhill racer starting their first Elite season on the UCI WC circuit plus UK nationals, careful what you wish for OP this shit is expensive 🙂 It all comes from the bank of mum and dad! Travel abroad, accomodation, race entry equipment, food, you name it and it comes from family unless you get very very lucky with a sponsor. I felt so aggrieved by the fact that Team GB help upcoming DH racers in no way, other than one shirt per season, that I set up a GoFundMe campaign to try and at least get this one rider through the 2019 season. This person also gives back as well, they offer to coach for free, travel miles to meet up for mentoring kids, visit schools to introduce kids to riding, and gets nothing back for any of this and nor do they ask. I have only posted the funding page on one facebook group, this group has 10,000 members who all love MTB, we have had 13 donations out of the 10k. If anyone wants to help then send me a message on here, you never know we might be able to get you in the pits at a DH event to see how things run.
At the end of the day a racer is doing what they love so why should they be supported by anyone is a fair question. This also means that we shouldn't be given a free ride when it comes to entry fees, my experience is that event organisers mainly do it out of a passion for the sport rather than for an income, so we accept their pricing, hope they are honest, and go race.
After reading that^^ I think someone should break in to the shed to fight and pinch laddos bike. Is sponsorship so rare? The actual bike manufacturers must be making millions!
Is sponsorship so rare? The actual bike manufacturers must be making millions!
I imagine they are but it doesn't go into grass roots sponsorship it sits with the Rachels, Tahnee's and Miriam's along with the redbull logo 🙂
But those guys aren't on mega bucks are they? Their wages must be a drop in the ocean compared to profit on 7k santa cruz'
My kids compete in ju-jitsu. Roughly about £35 per tournament on average. They rarely have more than two fights per tournament, which is 4 minutes per fight. Potentially they could win or lose within two minutes, which works out expensive per minute, without even taking into account travel, food, hotel etc. 😕
My op was genuinely wondering how folk managed to do it every weekend,
Cos they're rich, obvs. Try taking a walk around West London and see how multi million pound houses are lived in by normal.looking families. That's a tad more expensive that £50 for a race.
Cos they’re rich, obvs. Try taking a walk around West London and see how multi million pound houses are lived in by normal.looking families. That’s a tad more expensive that £50 for a race.
Aye, all the kids I've met racing enduro are the sons and daughters of cockney millionaires! 😂
Utter bullshit!
If you want him to get good on a bike and don't want to spend much, get him racing bmx. My 9 year old races weekly in Bristol for £4, and regional races are £15. Loads of excellent coaches around who do two hours of coaching for £10-15 (cheaper than childcare) - even Shanaze Reade charged about that when she came to Bristol. A decent race bmx is about £500, and I've never spent anywhere near that on my son's bikes which I get second hand.
Laurie Greenland came back to the track recently to catch up with people and get some leg speed back as part of his training. Loads of DHers have a BMX background...
Over here (BC, Canada) all three local trail associations run their own race series during the summer and costs are negligible ($5 for NSMBA [North Vancouver] events, and they used to be $2 until fairly recently).
I think SORCA [Squamish] and WORCA [Whistler] are similar prices.
The main difference here is that all these trail organizations have large (1000+) memberships @ ~$50-60 per year and a volunteering ethos, so the work required to put on an event can be spread across more people.
On the other hand, the Whistler Grand Fondo (which is run by a for-profit company) is charging $300 (+tax) for its entry...
So everyone agrees competing in sport at high ish level is expensive and time consuming.
Does mtb have more of an issue because it’s a middle aged mans sport that no one is interested in?
As touched on in previous comments, a major part of the cost is the lack of club infrastructure in the MTB "scene". I do a fair about of running and road stuff, and a lot of the smaller, low-key events are supported by the clubs, they will provide the marshals and at least some of the kit too (timing kit, course marking, etc.) and will likely have local contacts to help with the bigger stuff. This keeps the cost down significantly.
Does mtb have more of an issue because it’s a middle aged mans sport that no one is interested in?
There may be something in this too. We are in a bit of an echo chamber here which can make MTB, and cycling in general feel much bigger than it is. The fact is that it's a minor participation sport and racing is an even smaller part of that.
minor participation sport
Is it? All of the events I attend down hear in the S/SE are very well attended with hundreds or participants, which of course will be the tip of some size if iceberg.
Is sponsorship so rare? The actual bike manufacturers must be making millions!
2 times a national champion, gets on the RB live feed. Races with phone in pocket in case work calls him.
Is it? All of the events I attend down hear in the S/SE are very well attended with hundreds or participants, which of course will be the tip of some size if iceberg.
hundreds of people for the 'local events' to 1/3 of the UK population.
Is it? All of the events I attend down hear in the S/SE are very well attended with hundreds or participants, which of course will be the tip of some size if iceberg.
Aye, compared to say, running, it's very much a minority sport. Participants in the hundreds in running terms is a small local race.
All competitive sport is expensive and a lot of those costs are due to the organisation that goes into it.
Even charity/voluntary events take a huge amount of planning and recruitment.
Take the London Marathon, they use a lot of volunteer marshals, but recently some of them - only a minority - were found to be abusing some runners by calling them fat.
If a lot of sponsorship money is on the line, you can't really tolerate stories like that.
I assume you all have heard of the Parkrun events that happen at 9am every Saturday across the world, for free? Wouldn't it be awesome if this was possible with mountain biking. I can't imagine it would be doable due to the added complexity but think what it might do for the sport at a grass roots level.
"goes off to ponder"
I think cycling is the biggest sport for girls under 12 (or it was).
The scene isn't dead, but the choice has increased hugely, so the numbers available are restricted.
That's a vague stat though Dick, probably just because most girls that age have been bought a bike for Xmas.
My 12 yo daughter is the only one of her large peer group that cycles, and we live in a fairly flat area well served by shared use paths.