[Closed] More angry driver shenanigans.

just explaining politely what I was doing I probably annoyed him more.

This is a good resposne. Be nice. It always works for the best.

"In much of the world today, the thumbs up means, "O.K.", "Yes", or "I approve." But in Iran, Afghanistan, Nigeria and parts of Italy and Greece it is an obscene insult, especially when combined with a sweep of the arms. It these places it roughly means, "Sit on my phallus," and carries the same stigmatism as the middle finger."

Maybe he was from Iran, Afghanistan, Nigeria, parts of Italy, or Greece.

I wonder if an inappropriate sexual advance would diffuse some of these situations?
Next time, perhaps tell him that you're erect and you like his shoes?

[img] [/img]

😉

Next time, perhaps tell him that you're erect and you like his shoes?

Both of those things were true so wouldn't have been a stretch.

What a strange man,maybe his partner ran off with a cyclist and your signal pushed him over the edge 😉

Both of those things were true so wouldn't have been a stretch.

[i]Maybe he was from Iran, Afghanistan, Nigeria, parts of Italy, or Greece.[/i]

Or perhaps he was just a cock. There are plenty of them out there and seemingly increasing in numbers every day.

I hope it didn't spoil your ride completely OP. It really was a beautiful morning for it (30 miles on the road incident free).

I hope it didn't spoil your ride completely OP. It really was a beautiful morning for it (30 miles on the road incident free).

No, thankfully the sun and blue sky quickly took my mind off it.

Next time, perhaps tell him that you're erect and you like his shoes?

Just spat all over my keyboard, Thankyou. 😉

Agree with the polite response, spread the happiness, it may work...

I give drivers a thumbs up when they wait and pass safely - but I do sometimes worry that it might be mistaken for a middle finger when they glance back in the mirror.

Perhaps that's what happened here?

Or maybe he was just a cock.

If it happened exactly like you say (no reason to believe it didn't btw) then what a bizarre incident. You were waving him through as to not hold him up and he's not happy with that.
Some proper mental people about in this here world.

He was probably nervous about doing the overtake, in his perception you were giving him the hurry up.

Or maybe he was just confused that you were trying to make him jump the queue?

GrahamS - Member
I give drivers a thumbs up when they wait and pass safely - but I do sometimes worry that it might be mistaken for a middle finger when they glance back in the mirror.

I just give the 'thank you' palm up wave like what driver give each other.

finished with "I pay to be on these xxxxxxx roads"

For future reference the correct kneejerk response to this nonsense is [i]"SO DO I"[/i]

Sounds like the guy was a real knob end [i]however[/i] it's not up to you to decide when you want to be overtaken. It's up to the driver to do it safely in his own time. I'm sure you thought you were doing the bloke a favour but I'd be very surprised if this was "good practice" in any cycling manual.

I just give the 'thank you' palm up wave like what driver give each other.

Me too, I figure it's what they are expecting to see.

I just give the 'thank you' palm up wave like what driver give each other.

Yep that works too - just make sure that a car behind you doesn't mistake for a stop signal, or a wave through.

it's not up to you to decide when you want to be overtaken. It's up to the driver to do it safely in his own time

I disagree - it should be a co-operative dialogue.

We take the primary to prevent dodgy overtakes, then when appropriate we relinquish the road and indicate it is now safe.

That's not forcing the driver to do anything - it's just saying [i]"Hey, thanks for waiting. I can see the road is clear now. It is safe to pass me if you want"[/i]

I disagree - it should be a co-operative dialogue.

We take the primary to prevent dodgy overtakes, then when appropriate we relinquish the road and indicate it is now safe.

That's not forcing the driver to do anything - it's just saying "Hey, thanks for waiting. I can see the road is clear now. It is safe to pass me if you want"

Still giggling about the shoes comment. 😀

Still giggling about the shoes comment.

I'm not! Vimto came out of my nose - it really hurts 😯

Next time, perhaps tell him that you're erect and you like his shoes?

Assuming the OP was wearing lycra, this would have been pretty obvious I'd have thought? 😯

I generally wave cars through on twisty lanes where I'm bit ahead and can see/hear there's nothing coming. I've never had this sort of response, sounds like the fella has deeper general issues, or perhaps it was the thumbs up, he may have taken it as you being sarky...

TBF I don't think I've used a thumbs up as anything other than an ironic/sarcastic gesture for about 20 years.

It was probably worth pointing out that stopping to rant like a dick will have cost him yet more time, angry ****ers love having that sort of thing pointed out to them.

Best practise is not to use any hand gestures at all (other than for signaling) and stick to nods & smiles...

I had a man in a white van rev their engine at me yesterday. 😥

I'd just pulled in front of them into the bike box (the little bit at the front that they'd left free, anyway). I was only in his way because he was going straight on from the turn left lane. Angry pass, lots more revs. 30mph at least in a 20mph, watched him go through 2 sets of lights as they turned red further up the road.

Sense of entitlement + blindness to own faults + blindness to the fact that you're going nowhere in a hurry in London anyway = pointless anger.

Bit wearing to be on the end of it fairly regularly, though. Never had any sweary enchanges or fisticuffs. Although I did slap a panel van that pulled out on me (white, would you believe?) after I'd finished emergency braking for it.

I don't often wave a driver past, but will if its a narrow road and can see its clear/a good spot stop pedalling, stand, and tuck in a bit. For me this has often worked as a clear sign that I think now is a good time for you to pass if you want to.

Also give the the thank you wave with the right hand, and a nod of the head by way of expressing appreciation for their consideration.

As a driver there are often times I'm a bit over-cautious overtaking a cyclist, and sod's law dictates its often on a blind turn, or a blind hill, or a combination of the two, when I come up behind them. Its awkward for both of us, they probably feel a bit of impotus to crack on but are knackered, I'm trying to go up a hill in 1st at 5mph in a large estate without accidentally revving alot.

The friendly wave, thank you, hi etc can just relieve that and mean we both go about our day happily. Yes, Unklehomer tends to overthink things...

I think this is best solution

wrecker - Member
I wonder if an inappropriate sexual advance would diffuse some of these situations?
Next time, perhaps tell him that you're erect and you like his shoes?

Either that or just get your banger out

I have started counting the number of good responses from motorists versus rude gesture, etc whilst out and about on the road bike.

If a motorists slows down on a single track road I give a cheery wave and more often than not a wave is returned.

Sometimes I hop on the pavement to let a truck go by and I'll get a flash of the hazards as a thank you.

Riding through town I more often than not get rude gestures and the like.

So far the friendly waves outnumber less friendly hand gestures.

The other day I even had a works pickup stop with two builders in thanking me for stopping at the red lights at a cross roads....Crazy!

So far the friendly waves outnumber less friendly hand gestures.

Come rain or shine, tears or happiness, I just flip the bird to everyone and anything. They can make of that what they will....

DrP

Never waive anyone past telling them it's safe: That way you are taking responsibility for something that is not your business. Always leave it to the driver to decide when it's safe.

That way you are taking responsibility for something that is not your business.

Hmmm...it's like incorrectly indicating though isn't it - if they crash just because you waved them past, I'm sure really it's [b]their [/b]responsibility for not checking ahead...

DrP

That way you are taking responsibility for something that is not your business.

Them passing me [i]IS[/i] my business: If I leave it for them to decide when it is safe and they get it wrong then it'll be me that they swerve into.

Nothing wrong with [i]inviting[/i] them to pass IMO.

Given the amount of chat on this subject and my own recent altercation I thought I would look for any research in the area. Not sure how credible this piece is. Its just a google search but some of it seems to make sense.

The anatomy of road rage.

•Immobility - we're stuck sitting behind the steering wheel and can't physically relieve tension.
•Constriction - because we must drive on roads, our options are limited, often giving us the feeling of being boxed in.
•Lack of control - although we maintain control of our own vehicle, many other variables like traffic, lane closures, and the behavior of other drivers, are completely outside of our influence.
•Territoriality - like many animals, human beings react negatively when we feel our space is threatened by someone else.
•Denial and loss of objectivity - we tend to overlook our own faults and place blame on others.
•Unpredictability - we all know that every time we drive there are going to be unexpected events, such as someone pulling out into traffic ahead of you without warning -- this makes driving more stressful.
•Ambiguity - because there's no culturally agreed-upon way to signal an apology to another driver, it's easy to misinterpret someone's actions as a sign of aggression or insult.

and how it manifests

•Impatience and inattentiveness - these can be categorized by behaviors like driving through red lights, rolling through stop signs, blocking intersections, speeding and not using signals when turning or changing lanes. Drivers who engage in these behaviors often say that their schedules are very busy, that they've run out of time or that their mind was on something else. This is the lowest level of aggressive driving -- behaviors that are annoying and could trigger road rage in another, but are less risky than other negative behaviors.
•Power struggles - these are more serious, and they include preventing someone from moving over into your lane, using gestures or obscene language to humiliate or threaten other drivers, tailgating and cutting off another driver or braking without warning as an act of retaliation. These behaviors stem from an unhealthy mentality in which drivers feel as if they're the target of malicious acts. Many people feel a sense of entitlement and self-righteousness when behind the wheel of a car -- it's common for them to feel that someone who makes a mistake needs to be punished. Most of us have wished for another driver to feel guilt or shame for an action we've deemed stupid or dangerous -- according to Dr. James, that's the first step to entering into a power struggle.
•Recklessness and road rage -- the most serious incidents include behaviors like entering into a duel with another car, racing at dangerous speeds and committing assault with a weapon or your vehicle. In these cases, aggressive driving gives way to outright violence. While road rage isn't exactly a worldwide epidemic, studies have shown that incidents have increased each year. Skeptics point out that this could be due to an increase in reporting incidents, however, and may not actually indicate an increase in cases

Full article here, worth reading to rationalise

[url= http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/accidents-hazardous-conditions/road-rage.htm ]Road Rage Article[/url]

In my head, although I completely realise that he in his car would almost certainly not have interpreted it that way, I was just trying to indicate it was all clear for him rather than hurry up and pass me. I wasn't bothered by him being behind, he gave me plenty of space so I was quite happy. But I was, maybe wrongly, thinking of him being frustrated/nervous whilst stuck behind so my gesture was just 'you're all clear if you want to overtake' rather than an 'overtake now'. Personally if I was in his shoes I wouldn't overtake purely because a cyclist gestured me to do so but I'd be grateful that an attempt was made to pass on some, albeit minimal, information.

Regardless, I think his reaction was unnecessary and unpleasant but such is life.

Good article IanW.

Ive just had a motorist fly up the outside lane on a dual carriageway then pull left into the space i was occupying. I was in the centre of the lane as we were approaching a set of lights and this behaviour is all too common, so i was attempting to command my safe space.
I had to brake hard to avoid a collision, so i went alongside (passenger side as that's were i ended up) and told him fairly politely to use his eyes as he nearly hit me.
He then proceeded to try to force me off the road, driving alongside and moving left to intimidate me. Let him go on, caught him at the next lights and gently adjusted (not damaged) his near side wing mirror.

Wanted to rip it off but i managed to restrain myself.

He was a bloke in his late middle age as well, old enough to know better but firstly pulls a dangerous manoeuvre then, when pulled up on it proceeds to use his vehicle as a weapon.

Reminds me of a TwopTwip (twitter feed)

If you'd like to learn some new cockney swear words...

Simply ride a bicycle into London!

What concerns me about this kind of behaviour is a) it seems to be on the increase and b) whether I'm a driver or cyclist it seems to be getting harder to avoid it and keep out of trouble.

For e.g. I had a guy drive straight onto the A23 in Croydon from a side road and nearly hit me. He drove straight into flowing traffic on a main road. I swerved round the front of him, to avoid the emergency stop he was trying to force me into.
He didn't like this, proceeded to tail me for the next few hundred metres and when I signalled left to turn into Ikea, undertook and accelerated past me - I very nearly hit him. Luckily I was looking and stayed on the main road and turned round later on.

Essentially he wanted to bully his way on the main road and I didn't let him. Because I swerved and kept my line, he had to stop.

So my choice was: do what I did and risk getting run off the road or pull an emergency stop and risk getting rear ended... either way I'm just trying to drive sensibly and legally and risk ending in an accident... not great...

Brooess - my thinking exactly. I don't drive so cant comment on a drivers perspective, but i am noticing more and more attempts to bully me out of my road space - drivers like the above cutting into a space i am already in, driving out of a junction regardless of my presence, trying to force past me in the middle of a contraflow etc.

I think part of it is that there is now such a massive variation in the abilities of cyclists on the road. Ten years ago, you only got decent club riders or couriers. Now there are Sportives every weekend, more people are commuting by bike, in London you've got the Barclays Cycle Hire scheme and the riders using that vary wildly from competent to utterly insane.

So drivers simply don't know what to expect or how to cope. A decent rider on a road bike can clip along quite happily at 20+ mph but the driver has just overtaken some dappy old bat on a shopper doing 5mph. It's that fear of the unknown coupled with the very fact that you being there has caused the driver to have to do something other than sit there in bovine indifference - you're an uncontrollable aspect of that drivers life and if the driver feels threatened or confused by you, some of them will react in the way we've all seen from the videos.

It always astonishes me though that drivers get so precious about their cars, bemoaning any slight scratch on them but they're willing to slam it into the side of a cyclist... 😯

exactly. the best thing that's happened round here is a 20 mph speed limit on all roads in Islington borough. drivers (who've realised at least) seemed to have calmed down a lot. just hoping Haringey and others will follow suit soon.

I've just started driving regularly again after 3.5 years. I think that the best approach is to drive with full respect everywhere, letting everyone out, giving cyclists loads of room etc. My area is actually full of considerate drivers so I'll have to follow that example. When I go to Essex people drive considerably more aggressively and I find it unpleasant.

brakes, except for Hornsey Road north where it crosses Tollington Road. Drivers don't like you coming in front to use the stop box. 2 recent arsiness issues there, both times the driver burnt off at 30mph+ then busted through late orange/red at seven sisters to avoid a further chat.

I think a repaint of the bike and the green background in the box would help people getting so cross when you use it.

I don't like that junction much, or Hornsey Road in general, there's always parked cars further up that cause a bit of a pinch if you don't get away quickly and a crossing that narrows the road too much. Then the crossing at Seven Sisters is far too narrow.
I normally do the drag up Holloway Road all the way to Shepherd's Hill as you get some good races in the largely empty bus lanes. 😀

I might give that a go. Just put the immensely lardy Fat Franks back on for the summer, bringing my road bike up to weighty DH bike levels. Can't seem to be bothered to do much exercise outside the commute, so I figured I may as well make it as hard as possible. Hillclimbtastic.

[url=

posted this in the southern softy springtime songthread, reminded me of your pigeon thread[/url]

A few years ago a taxi overtook and pulled in at the lights then indicated left, i took my camera out and took a picture, taxi driver junmped out and screanmed at me "wht you takin my pictur forr", i calmly replied for my website, WWW.FATBASTARDS DRIVING TAXIS.COM.

Heh, like it Ned.
Pigeons have just come back so I'll be out with my stick at dusk again scaring them off... they're shitting on the wife's new oil cloth so she'll probably be shinning up the tree before long.

A guy in a tranny pulling a bloody hideous caravan tried to side swipe me on Sunday, his friends in the car behind suggested I and the other cyclists didn't pay road tax, they were 'travellers', oh the ironing. It gave me the boost to finish off the rest of the 50 mile loop at speed though which was nice.

Christ the [i]"don't pay road tax"[/i] nonsense really is a millstone around the necks of cyclists isn't it?

Really wish some of the cycling advocacy groups would get together and put that one to rest once and for all with a series of high profile adverts or something.