[Closed] Modern MTBs / Components , not fit for purpose ?

do you ride your TV round the woods?

You're right of course, components are designed for a short lifespan of racing on dusty XC courses in the USA, not for regular use in UK conditions. It's like wearing a set of track spikes on a trudge over the cairngorms every week.

But stuff that is durable probably wouldn't be fashionable or "high performance" enough to sell. Few exceptions like Rohloff hubs. And to be honest I've been happy with the way Hope brakes have lasted. And tyres and wheels generally do ok IMO. Ok, I suppose it's mostly just the drivetrain and suspension that's problematic really.

To be honest it might be that you don't put your bike away dirty. All that constant washing. Rarely wash my bikes unless filthy and never really had any issues, certainly never had to make a warranty claim on any part of a bike in over 20yrs. Actually I tell a lie, I did once have a cracked bottom bracket on a turner bike.

Let the dirt build up and things might last longer.

On the flip side of what Woody said, I do clean my bike after each ride and never (touch wood!!) had a warranty issue. A chap I ride with never/rarely cleans his bike and spends lots of time during the ride faffing and fixing busted bits.
It could just be one of those things, bearings do wear and bad luck on the part of the shock issue. Replace bits with better seals/uk stuff from Hope etc. You may find uk designed bits last longer.

Ridden on average once a week about 20 - 25 miles , Quantocks , Mendips , Exmoor riding and a week in Spain last year .

How is that not fit for purpose for a bicycle?

Or have I just been unlucky

Kryton I class BBs , Headsets , chains , brake pads , cassettes etc as consumables what I don't expect is replacing suspension units after less than 2 years or for that matter frame bearings .

Well they warranted the shock, and the fork you likely scratched yourself?

As for the shock I has a Fox one fail. When I sent it / called Tftuned they stated the OEM seals etc were not as strong as the aftermarket replacement.

Why? I don't know, cost/mass manufacture mostly likely.

Maybe you ride harder than me but my Anthem hasn't been touched in two years of riding and racing, with the exception of a shock service this year, ans that's only because I thought I ought to. Perhaps its the Kona design / tolerances causing excess stress on the components?

I ride once or twice a week and expect bearings and tires to last about 18 months, cassette about 2 years, pads 6 months. Shock and fork service at 18 months (lowers every 6 months).

I think part of the reason may be the Mendips, when I rode there on a regular basis it used to eat bearings and brake pads alive, despite the bike only needing a light rinse to look spotless.

A light rinse!!!!! You obviously were a fair weather rider!!!!

I thought cars were like that?

Two and a bit years on my HT. Done over 6000Km ranging from Alpine to ITTs and general bimbling. Replaced original BB (RaceFace) after 1500Km to a Hope which is still going strong; the RaceFace cranks after about 5500Km (but my fault in a way as I cross-threaded the tightening mechanism); one full drivetrain plus an extra chainring (running 1x so greater wear). The forks (X-Fusion) died recently but I hadn't had them serviced until it was too late, so not really the fault of the forks.

Clean regularly with hose (low pressure).

2 years on frame bearings sounds reasonable - why should they be any different than any other bearings, say headset or bottom bracket both of which you count as consumable?

No service on the fork or shock in two years is outside of the recommended service intervals and whilst a scratched air shaft isn't sure to have been prevented by that it could be grit making it past the seals?

Failed seals on the shock or some other fault? Could it have been caused by the failed bearings producing twist in the linkage and loadng the shock badly?

Of course you could just be unlucky. You'll definitely find more folks who haven't had trouble than ones that have.

Def not fair weather, been up to the axles in thick mud many times over there, but it always seemed to rinse off easily, reckon it's a very fine sandy substance in the soil that just gets in everywhere.

Soil types have a massive effect on wear. For instance I've noticed that I've started wearing out jockey wheels since I moved to the Cairngorms from Edinburgh.

woody74 - Member
To be honest it might be that you don't put your bike away dirty. All that constant washing. Rarely wash my bikes unless filthy and never really had any issues...

I agree.

I also wonder how much carrying a bike externally on a car is to blame. Normal speed in wet conditions is much the same as jet wash.

I ride in the Scottish Borders, in all weathers and my 'modern' bike/components are certainly more 'fit for purpose' than bikes/components I had in the past - plus the bikes we have now are so much more capable, which means they get a seriously hard time.

And tbh I treat all of the bike as 'consumable', it's not like I'm expecting for my kids to inherit it 🙂

Not fit for purpose.....

so you admit that some stuff just wears out because we ride around in grinding paste for a good part of the year, you replaced the bearings on your frame (again on some bikes designed to wear) so you've been unlucky with shocks (replaced) and forks....

seems a bit hyperbolic really, annoying for sure, but I reckon on the whole given what we do to them , most bike parts are pretty good.

EDIT just seen this

I also wonder how much carrying a bike externally on a car is to blame. Normal speed in wet conditions is much the same as jet wash.

Nothing like really, jet washers pump litres of water a minute, rain quantities are nothing like as much, or at anything like the pressure.

nickc - Member
'I also wonder how much carrying a bike externally on a car is to blame. Normal speed in wet conditions is much the same as jet wash'.
Nothing like really, jet washers pump litres of water a minute, rain quantities are nothing like as much, or at anything like the pressure.

I wasn't thinking of direct pressure, more like the Bernoulli effect creating a pressure differential, let's call it a vacuum, causing small amounts of water vapour to get sucked into the bearings, ultimately leading to their demise.

Hmm, mixed feelings here.
Bearings on the current most-used bike have lasted two years before needing changing (Liteville 301). That's a drastic improvement over the Five that needed bearings every 4-6 months. So some things are definitely getting better.

Drive-trains are the bit that niggle me most though. Alloy chainrings FFS why?
And my pet hate - Manufacturers bolting an alloy cog on the end of a cassette so that the otherwise acceptable wear-rate becomes limited by this soft bit that lasts less than half as long! arghh!!

Can't help thinking would we put up with TVs , cars , domestic appliances being like that ?

But we used to didn't we. When I was a kid we were on first name terms with the TV repair man and no trip back up the motorway to see our relatives was complete without counting the broken down cars on the motorway (90% of them Minis if it was raining hard and they didn't have the strategically placed tin foil in the radiator grill to protect the distributor cap.) Domestic appliances may have moved the other way but in terms of cost allowing for inflation and earnings they are more affordable than ever.

Mountain bikes in comparison have not been manufactured for as long and in no where near the same numbers.

But they have

lol. i was going to say 'get a five if you don't want to change bearings'. multi-link bikes do tend to eat them though.
also if you left the bearings a bit too long that would contribute to the wear on the shock.
2 years riding twice a week in all weathers is going to generate some maintenance.

someone made a point about the seals on shocks. manufacturer probably chooses these as a balance of performance ( stiction ) vs. likely environment. in the UK we may be at one end of the bell curve.

im starting to think that its not the conditions we ride in but the care of our bikes afterwards (yes calderdale grit had killed many a component of mine in months)

But i do think that spraying your bike down with muc off and then "lubing" it doesnt help. I recently started using MO94 on my liteville and it stripped the grease out of the bearings and faded the anodizing on one of the bolts (thank goodness it didnt get anywhere else) as well as loosening the head tube badge.

its stuff like that i believe is leading to the premature demise of our bikes.

I think part of the reason may be the Mendips, when I rode there on a regular basis it used to eat bearings and brake pads alive, despite the bike only needing a light rinse to look spotless.

mendips have broken my bike more than any other place.. and i've ridden there much less than anywhere else 🙂

i think alot of people that say 'i get years out of bearings' are probably riding knackered bearings.

having bout 3 suspension bikes off teh classifieds in the last couple of years and 100% of them having knackered bearings despite being re-assured they have no play. they may have no play but thats because they dont actually move or are full of rusty gunk. take the linkage apart and see if they are buttery smooth i bet they are not.

all the brearings on my bikes are knackered. the bikes work but the bearings are all grumbly or a little wobbly. (well apart from my rear wheel on teh full suss where teh hub is brand spanking new but its shimano so it`ll be wobbly/grumbly soon).

bearings are consumable items anyway so a year out of a set is OK i recon.

Currently having an argument with CRC over a warranty claim on a shock which started to show signs of rubbing on the air shaft. After taking the shock back and opening it up, they say it's down to worn bushes and not covered. I say it's less than 4 months old, been ridden for less than 20 hours, and hasn't reached it's first service interval.

I reckon consumers are generally becoming more vocal and unaccepting of poor service / products. If stuff is becoming less reliable, I expect warranty departments to become busier, which should hopefully put pressure on manufacturers to maintain/increase standards.

My Blur LT used to develop play in the bearings if you looked at it funny.

5 spot is a lot better but then it doesn't have bearings!

2 years out of frame bearings on a well ridden bike is about right, or even better than average.

There might be an element of it, most stuff originates from makers in North America and they're more fair weather than us (case in point we were in whistler bike park on a rainy day, it's like a ghost town) or board/ski in winter ride in summer. We're lucky in the UK that it's pretty much a year round thing, but we have to deal with more mud and grime that most places.

There's a couple of things on my bike that must have seemed a great idea in California, but don't work as well in rainy Wales, but for the most part I've been lucky, I had a few broken suspension parts replaced by fox but that was 9-10 years ago, the more modern stuff had been incredibly robust.

Yes, I think bikes are unfit for purpose (riding off road in the UK).

I've had a Specialized Camber 2015 for just over a year. Headset bearings replaced twice. Front & wheel bearings replaced. COUNTLESS Brake pads. Disc rotors replaced. Suspension (especially forks) needs servicing so frequently it's beyond a joke. Pivot bearings all replaced after a year. Wheel true'd once. Cables replaced countless times. Gone through 6 chains and nearly gone through 2 cassettes & 2 sets of chain rings. Bottom bracket bearing replaced. Freehub failed & cost me a fortune in taxis to get back & then have it replaced. Currently getting stubborn issues with brakes and front fork not performing how they should costing me more money on "attempted" solutions that haven't worked.
I'm don't ride it that hard (very often about mid table on downhill segments on strava if it's an unfamiliar descent)
I don't Jet Wash it. I use Muc Off and Mobi pressure washer. Some suggest leaving the bike dirty, but who wants to get on a dirty bike at the start of every ride?

Mileage within than year ? A mere 3000

It wouldn't be tolerated if a new car had that many problems. It would certainly be described as "unfit for purpose"

causing small amounts of water vapour to get sucked into the bearings, ultimately leading to their demise.

really? I think you might be reaching... 😆

water vapour condensing inside bearings on a rainy car journey is going to be a teeny tiny amount, while yes it might "ultimately" result in bearing demise, I think it would probably wear out through regular use before that happened, d'you think?

They seem fine with it

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2x52x25 = 2,600miles in all weathers

Sounds like your forks are service interval related. Suspension bearings sound about right. HS sounds unlucky, BB would expect a couple at least.

I take this as a vindication of my multiple bike strategy. If you save by having a one does all FS then I think you have to accept slightly higher running costs when you use it in the winter.

I hate the idea of grinding a FS through the mire of the Chilterns winter when I can train at least as effectively on a HT with rigids and probably single speed at that.

^^ The camber sounds a nighmare. I'll only be racing my Epic and in the dry at that.

It is probably the bit where you ride your bike, wash it and then leave it for 5 or 6 days before touching it again. If you used it more the rust in the bearings would be less likely to appear and cause issues as the water would come out with use.

Get a bearing wet and leave it - it will seize.
Get a bearing wet and use it - it will have a much longer life.

OH and twenty years ago Not fit for purpose was pretty common.

I don't Jet Wash it. I use Muc Off and Mobi pressure washer. Some suggest leaving the bike dirty, but who wants to get on a dirty bike at the start of every ride?

Theres your problem, stop washing it, and a lot of what you list (though not all) will last a lot longer. Muc off is a really effective degreaser, washing the grease out of things (ie bearings) that its hard to get grease back into.

shortcut - Member
OH and twenty years ago Not fit for purpose was pretty common.

Spot on. Bikes were shite back then. didn't go particularly well up or down. At least modern bikes can do everything!

Wear and tear is to be expected with moving parts.

nickc - Member
causing small amounts of water vapour to get sucked into the bearings, ultimately leading to their demise.
really? I think you might be reaching...

water vapour condensing inside bearings on a rainy car journey is going to be a teeny tiny amount, while yes it might "ultimately" result in bearing demise, I think it would probably wear out through regular use before that happened, d'you think?

It is a bit of a reach, but when you look at the spray patterns coming off bikes carried outside cars on a rainy day, there's obviously considerable turbulence, and therefore some spots will be at much lower pressures than others.

Something similar happens to boat trailers when they are immersed. The cold water cools the bearing, the air inside it contracts to a lower pressure than externally and sucks in water*. Not a direct comparison because in this case there's immersion but I suppose similar can occur when you ride your bike across a creek.

*There's special kits for trailers to prevent this which basically involve filling all gaps in the bearing with grease to exclude air.

[quote=grannyjone ] Gone through 6 chains and nearly gone through 2 cassettes & 2 sets of chain rings.
Mileage within than year ? A mere 3000
I've never bothered recording component life before but since I'm now using Strava to record all my rides I'm creating a log. The only thing I can definitely say so far is that my Pact has covered over 1,200 miles and I changed the chain last week as the original (XT 11-speed) had got to 80% wear. Nothing else needed any fettling and it's still on the original brake pads etc.

It's worth mentioning that proper mudguards make a huge difference to BB life.

A couple of things I carry bike IN car and I never use Muc Off !

I carry my car on a towbar bike rack. Often on long motorway trips (50 miles plus) and for some reason it very often seems to be in the pissing rain. Is this having a negative effect on parts & is there even a practical solution ?

Putting the bike in the car isn't practical. Makes the car filthy & creates an additional cleaning job. The amount of cleaning work that Mountain Biking adds to my life is already beyond a joke.

What to use instead of Muc off ? Or just have a bike that never looks very clean ?

Usual routine is wet it with the Mobi Pressure washer, spray Muc Off everywhere, then immediately blast it all off. All done in 5 minutes. Only job left to do when I get home is clean the chain with a rag & degreasing foam and then put some chain lube on.

I will be looking at getting some proper mud guards after Summer or Autumn depending on when it starts to get muddy again.

If you are having to travel by car and can't put the bike inside then I reckon you can expect some additional "wear". FWIW, I mostly let my bikes dry, then just brush off the mud. This is very dependent on soil types though. Some just won't let you do that.

I do think that many bikes are over-washed though.

I always have to travel by car. 3+ times per week. Normally 50 mile round trips to get to/from rides (I choose to live near work and travel to my rides, rather than the other way round).
The bike always goes on the towbar rack. The last thing I want to do is put it in my car. Just the thought of it would be a big 'put-off' from riding altogether.

Just think how much sooner you'd knacker your car if you tried to clean all the suspension, engine and transmission thoroughly after every drive through the countryside. I think I've washed my full-sus about 5 times in 2.5 years and 2000+ miles. It's had a new BB (original Shimano one rubbish) and the frame bearings changed once. My older set of Hope hoops still have original bearings after 5 years and about 5000 miles and my older Hope BB has done even more riding than that (it's on frame no. 3) and has only been regreased once.

Water wrecks bikes when it hangs around moving parts. Doesn't matter whether it's clean water or dirty water, both corrode equally.

I keep the chain and stanchions clean and lubed. The rest is under a protective layer of mud or dust most of the time. 😉

Best to wash if its dirty. Especially the drivetrain as you dont want to be grinding away your gears when its full of grit

Do you not clean the front mech area ? That area always seems to collect crud especially bad

I think the problem is my bike the Camber looks really bad when its muddy due to it's colour (bright yellow) which is what encourages me to keep cleaning it. I'm sure it was designed for dusty trails in the USA rather than muddy English woodland & moorland.

Bells and whistles innit.

IME the lowest maintenance bikes have the fewest features and components to be damaged by the environment you use the bike in and/or overzealous cleaning regimes...

The answer to the OP's issues is a rigid SS of some sort... Obviously it's not the [i]'right'[/i] answer, but if you really wanted a MTB that will manage year round use in the UK, that's the starting point.

Every additional bit of gearing, bounce, uppy/downy post or other gadgetry inevitably adds to the list of [i]"stuff that will probably fail one day"[/i]

Not that I am against toys, but you really have to factor at least an idea of failure rate into your decision about buying them, and after a while a "winter bike" can start to look like a rather sensible N+1 justification...

The answer to grit and so on destroying your bikes moving parts is mudguards.

It's just the shock and fork you're miffed about then?

I've had more problems with suspension units recently than I had in years previously, but usually covered by warranty and performance is mostly better than it used to be - so it's not all bad.

Scratch on air shaft? Cheap part to replace even if they don't side with you on warranty.

My theory is that it's less about washing, but more about storage

Over the years, whenever my bikes have had to live in sheds or garages I've had no end of problems with bearings, suspension etc. Whenever they have lived in the house I have had fewer problems.

Frame bearings get it worse than hubs etc because of the limited rotation, meaning they get pitted. Factor in twist forces too and they get a hard life. They're a consumable as is any bearing. Uk and in particular Mendip conditions are harder on seals. That's just a fact of life.

Oh and can we please stop that bullshit "not fit for purpose" thing please?

I think the bike market is now so large and apparently has so much money available to spend on it that manufacturers have decided to build and sell kit with shorter lifespans. I've got stuff that is still being used from early 90s...that was built to last, stuff these days doesn't. The kit costs a lot more than then (even factoring in technology and improvements, cost of living and inflation, etc.) but it needs replaced sooner. Us mtbers seem happy to spend the cash so the manufacturers aren't going to change materials nor price...captive audience.
Less washing and trying to make sure the bike is dry tends to help keep things in much better condition - irrespective of cost.
The bits work well, but longevity isn't one of the things that is a requirement now (or so it seems).

The kit costs a lot more than then (even factoring in technology and improvements, cost of living and inflation, etc.)

I wasn't convinced by this so I checked out a couple of inflation calculators, expecting to show that modern bikes are actually relatively cheaper.

What I found was that a high-end hardtail is about the same now as 20 years ago, allowing for inflation (and for the additional cost of a suspension fork and disc brakes).

Might look into this further when I have less other stuff to do.

That being the case then it just highlights my point...kit these days don't last as long (I'm doing considerably less riding now than I did then and the kit now isn't lasting as long)...

And of course you're doing the same sort of riding as 20 years ago at the same speeds as 20 years ago on a bike that weighs the same as 20 years ago

I hate the idea of grinding a FS through the mire of the Chilterns winter when I can train at least as effectively on a HT with rigids and probably single speed at that.

+1

OP: buy an Orange and use mudguards.

Measuring life in miles is pointless, a 50mile summer dust ride is different to a 10 mile winter slop fest.
In terms of reliability I'm really happy with modern stuff though I choose carefully. My hope bb and headset have been fit and forget along with the hubs. The multi bearing vpp suspension has grease ports and has only needed 2 bearings in nearly 3 years, the sram x9 lasted until I wanted gx11 and that is going strong.

Shimanos external BB's are awful yes not fit for purpose. Poorly executed chrome stanchions a disgrace to the industry and plastic pivot components on low end mechs that warp with use are just taking the piss.

As for other parts it varies so much depending on whether the bike was assembled correctly in the first place, maintained reasonably and the level of use/abuse/crash damage/rock strikes meted out. Have been surprised how well most perform for the amount of battering they get.

Scotroutes...sadly, I am...my abilities haven't moved on and my mileage has dropped considerably...infrequency has meant the confidence, fitness and skill isn't there - I walk more these days...
My bike weighs 2lbs more...I weigh about 2.5stone more, so that might have a difference but I doubt it'll be significant enough to reduce life of kit that much. Perhaps the infrequent use has a larger impact...

[quote=DickBarton ]Scotroutes...sadly, I am...my abilities haven't moved on and my mileage has dropped considerably...infrequency has meant the confidence, fitness and skill isn't there - I walk more these days...
Bloody modern walking boots don't seem to last as long as the old ones....mutter, mutter, mutter.......

My stuff seems to last pretty well.

I usually change my chain and cassette each spring as a matter of course.

When I lived in Sheffield, winter riding used to really muller stuff like gear cables and brake pads. Never had an issue with suspension bits even with Fox and their supposed chocolate stanchion coatings. I try and clean my bikes sympathetically and will bring them in the house in the winter after a clean to help dry then out.

As for the OP, could the scratch my a manufacturing defect? A friends Vivid shock had some pretty bad score marks internally when it was tweaked up TF after only a handful of rides. Apparently, they've seen a few RS shocks suffer b

cookeaa - Member
...The answer to the OP's issues is a rigid SS of some sort... Obviously it's not the 'right' answer, but if you really wanted a MTB that will manage year round use in the UK, that's the starting point...

It is the right answer. It's brilliant having a bike you just ride. 🙂

How many miles in the dust is equivalent to miles in Winter mud in terms of wear ?

It is the right answer. It's brilliant having a bike you just ride.

As for dusty us etc. Have you been? It rains it gets muddy etc.