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"Why would I need Hi-Viz? You saw me well enough to pull me over!"
The absolutely ridiculous, selfish, behaviour that I see everyday on my 30 mile (each way) commute is beginning to really annoy me.
Careful! I've had to catch myself a few times recently. Started to get instantly very angry and at other people getting instantly very angry for next to no reason. Driver in front slows while indicating, takes a short while tofind his spot and pull in to the side of the road, driver behind can't wait the extra second (road completely clear apart from them and me) so revs hard, leans on the horn as he goes past. I got cross at him. And now I've spent 90 seconds typing it out. 🙄
My take on it is that they're a bit like footballer's shin-pads - if you were lying down and some very large bloke jumped on your leg with both feet, the pad would have very little effect, but people still wear them, because there are definitely occasions where you'll be glad that you did.
this seems to be true and is pretty ****ed up when thinking by joe public.Because it's easier, [b]and general public perception is[/b] not only that helmets are more important for safety, but also [b]that cyclists are the ones causing danger on the roads.[/b]
Wonder how polite/tactful the police will be with stopping cyclists for no good/legal reason and whether if you are a bit robust in your "please let me get on with my day" response you'll get some spurious careless cycling allegation made up on the spot.
Headphones mentioned in the article aswell, I'd assumed it was just the haterz who went on about them but seems the police dislike [s]road users[/s] cyclists listening to music too.
@NedRapier - yes, I'm aware of the effect that you describe, so am thinking of a way to channel my annoyance without over-reacting.
something must be done to stop cyclists getting killed by motor vehicles, this is something that may help if a cyclists falls off their bike. So this exercise is something that will not help with the current main problem."Something must be done. This is something."
It's also liable to piss cyclists off and develop a bit of resentment for the police, lovely 🙄
BTW if they were stopping people riding like twunts and offering them education that's fair enough.
Lots of lorry's being stopped by the police between Westminster and Tower Hill this afternoon.
I don't think that the vehicles themselves are dangerous, just the person behind the wheel. Stay away from tippers, bin/skip/scaffolding lorry's and you've got half a chance, low quality drivers.
Didn't stop another cyclist being killed in London at lunchtime today...perhaps why lots of lorries being stopped this afternoon?
WOuld be better off to stop riders without lights, although apparently they were recently and allowing them a couple of weeks to gets lights.
They should also run a national, or at least London, campaign, showing that video about how big the blind spot is in a lorry. Like this one, or there was another one around somewhere:
wonder why they haven't already, it is damn scary when you see it for the first time. Maybe someone is worried the general public will all say "WTF?!!1!! Why are they on our streets then?"They should also run a national, or at least London, campaign, showing that video about how big the blind spot is in a lorry
They should also run a national, or at least London, campaign, showing that video about how big the blind spot is in a lorry. Like this one, or there was another one around somewhere:
Maybe they can show it to the traffic engineerers and ask them why ASL and feeder lane match a hgvs blind spot so well.
Headphones mentioned in the article aswell, I'd assumed it was just the haterz who went on about them but seems the police dislike road users cyclists listening to music too.
Wonder if they will pull all the "chavs" in their corsa's for having stupidly loud i.c.e. systems??? Or how about parents with kids in the back seat fighting????
Stay away from tippers, bin/skip/scaffolding lorry's and you've got half a chance, low quality drivers.
I don't think it is the driver's fault. They are only human.
Anyone would find it challenging to drive a vehicle with blindspots this large:
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Through city streets that are this busy:
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The two are simply not compatible.
As yet another person found out to their cost...
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/18/sixth-london-cyclist-killed-camberwell-lorry
Whilst I'm a supporter of wearing a helmet it is a ridiculous 'initiative' for the police to be doing. All cyclists know about helmets and hi-viz, if they don't have one then it's because they've chosen not to wear one (or forgotten them that day). I bet if they stopped 10,000 people not one would have a revelation and change their behaviour.
They should focus on HGV's for a bit and carry on with catching red light jumpers (whatever mode of transport they're in/on). And yeah the amount of idiots about at the moment without lights when it's dark needs addressing to (with fines not advice).
Wasnt there a study about helmets increasing rotational forces on the head, or making them more likely? Rotation being the bigger issue rather than impact. Had a dutch guy out last week telling me about some new helmet which allows the outer skin to rotate but the inner stays put.
Maybe helmets in a redesigned form would be better than the toy ones we have now? Protect the head in a wider range of forces and scenarios.
Maybe on STW, but I read no such suggestion in the article.
"He also acknowledged that officers were stopping riders who were not wearing helmets"
Maybe helmets in a redesigned form would be better than the toy ones we have now? Protect the head in a wider range of forces and scenarios.
I don't think it would make any odds as deaths from HGVs etc involve being crushed by huge forces. 🙁 Motorcycle helmets are considerably more robust than cycle helmets but they still die in large numbers.
My Colleagues father invented this : [url= http://www.truckview.net/ ]http://www.truckview.net/[/url]
It used to be given away free for all LHD trucks entering through British Ports.
It was used for truck in the Olympics to try accidents.
Seems to me it should be mandatory on all trucks/vans.
I've never had an incident involving a road vehicle as i cycle on the path whenever possible. I'd urge all of you to do the same. You may make a nuisance of yourselves but at least you are safe from cars and lorries. I'd imagine there's more chance of getting a dedicated cycle network by taking on the pedestrians. The cars aren't going anywhere.
Allmountainventure
''Had a dutch guy out last week telling me about some new helmet which allows the outer skin to rotate but the inner stays put.''
Its coming out in a few helemts now, its known as MIPS:
EG
As others have said - Helmets are almost a 'side issue' here..
The behavior of many cyclists/HGV Drivers/Car Drivers/Bus drivers/motorcyclists in London is shocking.
The behavior of many cyclists/HGV Drivers/Car Drivers/Bus drivers/motorcyclists [s]in London[/s] is shocking
They are without doubt a side issue and just being used as a political/self promotional tool. What I meant was that if we are going to be forced to wear them shouldnt they be redesigned because as it stands they have very limited use and in certain sutuations more likely to give you a head injury.
Thanks for that link.
If I could find a way to arrive at work and go through the day without absolutely RIDICULOUS helmet hair, then I'd probably wear a helmet on my commute just to assuage the tiny, niggling little voice in the back of my head that wants to make me think it's a worthwhile thing to do in case I'm being crushed to death by a motorist who's looking the other way/can't see me...
As others have said - Helmets are almost a 'side issue' here..
The whole lot (helmets, hi-viz, lights and for some of the more militant areas of the press, registration and insurance) are a way for everyone to neatly sidestep any and all issues. Everyone knows how easy it is to get cyclists and/or the press into a big frothy mess about helmets so they do it and sure enough, the massive elephant in the room just disappears.
The only thing that will cause real proper action is if a prominent figure (maybe Boris) gets hit by a lorry.
You would have thought it would be very simple to come up with a better mirror system to remove the blind spot completely.
I'm voting FOR the Plod to stop cyclists and advise them to wear helmets, some of the eejots I see riding around barely know how to walk straight never mind ride a bike.
And another thing, get some stuffing lights on!! Dear God the amount of folks riding in this grim dark weather at night without basic lights is utterly confusing and I feel they need a swift finger point telling off.
Last week at the Bow gathering I rode home and counted 6 folks on bikes without lights hacking down the highway towards Limehouse, this was 8pm'ish.. most were Kids and I see no reason NOT to stop them and give em' a right telling off.
Borris came pretty close already
nothing much changed
The Met are apparently stopping cyclists who are not wearing helmets to offer them "education and advice":
Gosh, almost worth moving back dan saff for a week or two with some facts and figures to counteract their "education and advice"
the amount of folks riding in this grim dark weather at night without basic lights is utterly confusing and I feel they need a swift finger point telling off.
Lighting is a different issue though. Cyclists are required by law to have lights so the police are completely justified in stopping cyclists and telling them to get some lights. I'm quite happy with that.
Likewise I'm quite happy for police to stop cyclists who are actually breaking the law by RLJing or riding dangerously (provided of course they direct as much, if not more, attention to the actions of drivers on the same roads).
The only thing that will cause real proper action is if a prominent figure (maybe Boris) gets hit by a lorry.
Win, win.
I've been caught in the blind spot of HGV's a number of times and have had to hop up the kerb to get out of the way. No big deal really. Those things are a total nightmare to drive around city centres. If I couldn't bunny hop up a kerb I don't think I'd ride a road bike. I'd have been squished a number of times by crap drivers.
If they were removed there would be no cornflakes in Tescos and then you would see a public disturbance!
I've been caught in the blind spot of HGV's a number of times and have had to hop up the kerb to get out of the way. No big deal really.
So what happens when you are the rider four from the front in the green top when the HGV pulls up alongside you at the lights. How do you hop up onto the kerb when there are other cyclists there?
[img] [/img]
Or if the council have thoughtfully provided sturdy railings to block your escape route?
More to the point, being able to sideways bunnyhop a road bike from stationary [i]shouldn't[/i] be a required skill for someone that just wants to cycle to work!
+1.Lighting is a different issue though. Cyclists are required by law to have lights so the police are completely justified in stopping cyclists and telling them to get some lights. I'm quite happy with that.
Time spent bollocking people who dont use lights at night is time well spent. They are exposing themselves [b]and others[/b] to a whole extra level of danger compared to those who choose to not wear a helmet.
Are you not terrified of being crushed one day? That is a properly big deal and you really should try to avoid being caught there (it is one thing that is pretty much totally in your control). As GrahamS points out, one day there might not be an escape route.I've been caught in the blind spot of HGV's a number of times and have had to hop up the kerb to get out of the way. No big deal really.
Lighting is a different issue though. Cyclists are required by law to have lights so the police are completely justified in stopping cyclists and telling them to get some lights. I'm quite happy with that
Absolutely. Just not during daylight hours.
I'm not saying lights would have been a good idea in the morning rush hour today - I had mine on - but it was daylight, and most cars didn't so again, would not have been a legal requirement.
So if you filter up the inside of a lorry at the lights or when its indicating you are asking for trouble.
If you undertake a moving lorry you are also definitely asking for trouble.
This could be improved by educating cyclists.
Removing all left hand filter cycle [s]lanes[/s] paint would help too,
But what about genuine left hooks? They still happen. That cyclegaz clip that's been posted a few times. The cyclist did absolutely nothing wrong and was nearly take out be a lorry turning left.
Are you not terrified of being crushed one day? That is a properly big deal and you really should try to avoid being caught there (it is one thing that is pretty much totally in your control). As GrahamS points out, one day there might not be an escape route.
Yes good points by Graham and of course he's right. I'm just not sure there is anything that can be done to stop the accidents caused by blind spots. Personally I'm more worried about cars turning across the road in front of me as the speed differential is so high.
I haven't read the content but heard the OP on the radio this morning - stopping cyclist with no Helmets (duh)earphones in (duh) and no hi vis (well....)
Today I went out in the Essex countryside at 2pm. I was dull and drizzling so I had my black night vision tights on, and a flouro Altura Transformer, plus LED's front and back.
a) LOTS of car's weren't bothering with lights, which renders the reflectivity ineffective.
b) I was overtaken on a bend with double solid white lines, despite riding defensively to help prevent that.
c) I was overtaken through a traffic island
d) I was overtaken with a mirror about and inch from my elbow.
c) I was greeted with a blaring horn from 50m behind me on a straight road with no oncoming traffic whilst riding 2ft from the kerb by a Merc for no apparant reason - the driver decided to give me the finger when he went past - no idea why.
Anyway, there are idiots on both sides everyone just needs to be considerate and careful - its dark and slippery out there. Albiet car or bike if you are jumping lights and can't wait a few seconds and squeeze past /overtake a bus or HGV then that's your responsibility, not Boris'
It's just a piece of PR following all the recent deaths to 'show we're doing something'.
Anecdote I know, but riding in London 2-3 days a week and my observation is there's no shortage of people riding with helmets and hi-vis... around 75% would be my judgement.
So they're kind of missing the point and they almost certainly know that - they just had to get something public and high profile out there which would make a news story to deflect from Boris's stupid comments last week.
On the other hand the bus driver who gave me a close pass in Paddington tonight told me it would be my fault if I got killed because I was riding in the middle of the lane. Yes, he was a prick. But he's a prick who thinks he's in the right and is driving a double decker bus... helmet can't save me there can it?
I can only hope that behind closed doors Boris, TfL and the Met are having some serious debate about how to make London safe for cyclists - I'm getting 2-3 near hits every ride at the moment and it's not fun.
tbh the benefits of mass cycling in a congested, polluted city like London are so great that I'm hoping one way or another, the problem will get tackled properly - there's too much to lose in terms of being able to sell London as a world class city, attracting inward investment.
In the meantime, stay safe, it doesn't feel that way at the moment...
As has been said, in the most part wearing or not wearing a helmet is a moot point. It will do you no good if you get dragged under an HGV or bus. That aside it does seem as though there is a problem with the attitude of drivers in general. Too often people believe that cyclists should be riding in the gutter, if they are to be riding on the road at all. However, it is my understanding and I recall from my driving lessons, that cyclists should be overtaken as though they are a car i.e. there needs to be no oncoming traffic so that you can properly pass the cyclist leaving ample space. There are numerous youtube headcam clips that show drivers squeezing past and/or becoming aggrevated because a cyclist was not in the gutter and they could not get past. I know that in some cases cyclists will exasperate the situation by purposefully using more road than they need, but generally the drivers are just flat out wrong and clearly have not grasp of the law regarding the issue.
You would think that some sort of ad campaign across all medias could help to teach drivers and cyclists. Obviously it would not change the minds of the ignorant but it would surely do some good.
how about putting a rear rack on your bike and carrying a metal pole, with red flags on the end, sideways?
No car is going to get close as they will scratch up the paint work.
You can just say that you were transporting some cargo to work.
You would have thought it would be very simple to come up with a better mirror system to remove the blind spot completely.
Or camera system, then make it compulsory for all lorries entering the congestion charging zone.
You would think that some sort of ad campaign across all medias could help to teach drivers and cyclists. Obviously it would not change the minds of the ignorant but it would surely do some good.
Yep! I've long thought that an advertising campaign covering things like "Why cyclists should ride in the middle of the lane", "How to overtake safely", "How to filter", "What is an ASL?", "What does amber mean", "There is no road tax" etc etc would be very useful for educatng and dispelling some of the anger on both sides.
The closest I've seen is the [url= http://think.direct.gov.uk/cycling.html ]TfL / THINK! Cyclist campaign[/url], which is actually not too bad (compared to the NiceWay Code) but probably isn't prominent enough.
This all seems like decent advice:
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