This gem of a post deserved a thread of its own.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">boriselbrus
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<div class="bbp-reply-content">Pro bike mechanic here with a few observations.
There is very little on a modern bike thats complicated to do especially if you can refer to a Youtube video as well (or ask on here).
True. However the vast majority of bikes which come in are not modern bikes. They are ancient and abused Apollos, Carreras and Raleighs. If I service 100 bikes a month, I reckon maybe 1 in every 150 is a modern bike. Just because you, your mates and those you see at trail centres ride nice bikes, that doesn’t mean that’s what we get in the shop.
Qualifications.
A flippin’ nightmare. Cytech, Velotech, Weldtech etc are not worth the paper in the real world. We advertised for a temporary mechanic to cover long tern sickness. I got a lad in for an interview and told him as part of the interview process I’d like him to service a bike for me. “No need mate, I’m Cytech 3 qualified” was the response. Well he came in, interviewed well then I picked the next bike out of the service rack for him to sort out. It was a 20ish year old Raleigh commuter. Not been ridden for the last 5 years at least, during which time it had been kept outside. The service instruction was “make roadworthy, max budget £50”. I gave the lad the bike, told him he should do the work and he should price his time at £20/hr. After an hour we called it a day, he’d spent most of that time trying to get the canti brakes set up. He’d never seen a loose ball bottom bracket, cotter pins or a quill stem. We see more bikes with these on them than disc brakes.
Prices
The average price of a bike sold in the UK was £233 in 2014 and probably hasn’t changed much since. Halfords sell 25% of all the bikes sold in the UK, probably more now Toys R Us has gone bang. There are an awful lot of bikes out there sold for less than £150 and guess what! They are the ones which need the most fixing because they are generally crap. How much do you think someone is willing to spend on servicing and repairing? Not much is the answer… And so many people think that bike servicing is easy. Well, often it is, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a value or can’t be done badly or well. A few recent example…
Customer comes in with brake issue. Actually quite a nice bike. Built by her husband who is an engineer. Sorted the brake issue, also corrected the oval chainring which had been mounted 90′ out.
Customer bought a bike from us then decided to fit a dropper. Bought a stealth dropper but the frame didn’t have a hole for the hose. Customer uses an angle grinder to extend the seatpost slot all the way down the frame to get the hose in. Puts jubilee clips round seat tube to secure it all. Decides he doesn’t like the bike so tries to return it to us for a refund. Gets very angry when we refuse.
Roadie with reasonable basic bike. Decides it’s too heavy and will save weight by removing the seatclamp. Replaces it with 2 holes and self tappers. Isn’t very talented with tools so the saddle is at about 20′ from straight. Sensibly decides to get us to sort his gears.
Customer comes in with brake issues after fixing them themselves. Had fitted new v brake pads upside down so the curve of the pads is opposite to the curve of the wheel.
I could go on…
Prices and mechanic availability.
As above bikes are simple so should cost about 50p to fix. A customer comes in with 2 wheels. Can we remove both the cassettes and swap them over. So remove 2 cassettes and fit 2 cassettes. Sure we say, £4. Bloke starts ranting about how it’s a 2 minute job and we have the tools so we should do it for free. Because of this mechanics wages are crap. I’m the workshop manager and I’m on under £9/hr. My partners 20 year old daughter is a waitress and her basic hourly rate is more than mine, plus she gets around £200/month in tips. I’ve only ever once been given a tip and that was for staying on for an extra half hour to fix a guys bike when he walked in at 2 minutes to closing time and needed the bike there and then to take it on holiday. I sorted the brakes and trued the wheels and sent him on his way with a bill for about a tenner. He tipped me £1. I was very happy!
So to stay afloat we reduced our number of mechanics this year after one of them left. Repair times went from around 3 days mid summer last year to maybe a week and a half this year. We lost at the most £500 of business. But we saved the salary (around £15500) plus the national insurance and pension contributions, so maybe £18000, which equates to maybe £28000 of takings.
TL:DR It’s very hard to make a living fixing bikes. It’s essentially seen as easy work of low value which anyone can do themselves. Until it goes wrong. This means there is no money to invest in training, tools, and spare bodies to react quickly. My skills are seen in the marketplace as being of less value than carrying plates of food. So the experienced people leave and are replaced by children. I’m trying to get out at the moment. I’ll probably end up being a Tesco delivery driver working fewer hours for about £4k a year more.
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******* quote function!
******* quote function!
You copied the user name and status which messes it up.
Sadly the post is a symptom of everyone (including on here) wanting cheap things and things done cheaply.
Yeah that seems about right, bike costs £100 so changing tyres, cassette, chain, cables, headset and BB should only cost £20 including labour.
Sounds crap, people do expect stuff too cheap. But then I do almost all my own servicing apart from suspension, which I am happy to pay good money for.
Good post OP. Many years ago I woeked in a LBS so the working on old bikes rings many a bell. Thinking about it back then we didn't work on any nice bikes. But in this day and age.
The service instruction was “make roadworthy, max budget £50”.
Has got to be "sorry" how can you guarantee to get a pile of rubbish running for £50. It's just a rod for your own back !!
That qouted post by OP is my daily experience as well and no doubt everyone else who works in the trade.
how can you guarantee to get a pile of rubbish running for £50. It’s just a rod for your own back !!
That.
I've been asked to fix watches, weld a kettle back together and various other things. It's nice to be able to help but a business only exists when it can make enough money to stay afloat.
Mind you, this forum shows how many folk can't even change a tyre successfully so there will always be a stream of customers willing to pay for a decent service.
Just re-enforces my opinion that the current system doesn't work. Having the retail and maintenance aspect in a single business just devalues one side in favour of the other. Having shiny bikes and parts and a spangly shop floor full of aspirational gear costs a lot and increasingly isn't carrying it's weight, meanwhile, fixing the bike the customer bought is seen as 'part of the service' and therefore carries no value to the average customer.
I am increasingly thinking that seperating the 2 ala the motor trade might be the way to go.. a repair business that isn't invested in selling stuff other than to facilitate repairs wouldn't be focussed on selling the bikes to stay in business and could therefore start towards making a profit out of keeping all the online bought bikes on the road. Because they aren't part of the retail business, in theory, their services would be seen as having greater value than the mechanic stuck in the back of the shop.
Surely even a business such as this could have 'accredited repair' status from the online retailers and connect with the customer that way.?
Just theories but surely something is going to have to change, it can't go on like this for much longer.
It's a more fundamental problem than that, it seems like bike shop mechaniccing is where people finally lose any sense that shops exist to make a profit.
You've already paid for the tool, and it only took you 5 minutes, so how dare you ask me for money??
Until someone invents an Amazon style postal bike repair service, there’ll always be a need for physical bike shops. Any mechanic I speak to is always booked up at least a week in advance. And cycling is more popular than ever. So what is going wrong?
It’s a more fundamental problem than that, it seems like bike shop mechaniccing is where people finally lose any sense that shops exist to make a profit.
You’ve already paid for the tool, and it only took you 5 minutes, so how dare you ask me for money??
Does this not tie into the retail/repair in one model though.? I mean you can't go into your local motor repair garage and get them to sell you a set of spanners or any of the specialist tools needed to keep a car running. Is it possible that being able to see that the tool the mechanic is using only costs £10 and the job only took him 5 minutes is devaluing the entire process.?
What kind of numpty would try and fix a 'kept outside for 5 years' rusty bike on a £50 budget lol!
I think the correct answer there would be 'economic wright off' next?
Maybe a hundred quid labour for a full strip down, thats before considering the cost of new parts. Of which that will be many.
I’m not a massive fan of the post:
1. Don’t take on loss making jobs. There is a massive opportunity cost and customers that bring them in rarely appreciate it. Do your kindest / best customers always pay on time? These people are getting in the way of your good customers. You end up with bad customers because you don’t...
2. Say no / kick non paying / bad customers out of the door. Cassette man is knocking at your door because he has neither the skill nor tools to do the job himself. The last Bikeshop he tried to get a freebie out of probably sent him packing. If you say pay up or shut up 50/50 he will simply pay. Do the work for free and you set a president for a long term time waster.
3. Pay new boy a set price per jobs until he is good enough for you. If he’s not qualified there is a YouTube video that will help, or give him an apprentice salary until he is ready and train him.
4. Replace parts rather than fix even if they can be fixed just like car mechanics. Leave the tinkering to customers that want to tinker.
Sadly running a business can suck if you are too nice 🙁
What kind of numpty would try and fix a ‘kept outside for 5 years’ rusty bike on a £50 budget lol!
Almost all of your customers all day long, week after week.
I hate my current job and someone was just telling me about a 'workshop manager' position. This thread has put me off going back to it.
What kind of numpty would try and fix a ‘kept outside for 5 years’ rusty bike on a £50 budget lol!
But we do Every. Single. Day.
Replace brake and gear cables. Rip out the bb and put new balls in it. Leave the mechs soaking overnight to free them off and replace the chain. Pump up the tyres and true the wheels, adjust wheel cones if needed. An hours work and £30 in parts. It won't be pretty, but it'll work well enough for the dude to take the kids out in the park at the weekend.
This is 70% of what I do. The fact that you LOL shows the disconnect between the belief most people have as to what I do and the reality
These guys are a prime example of what I'm talking about..
http://www.thebicycleworks.com/
They've been running, repairs only, for what must be 20 years now. Most of their business is uni clunkers that absolutely wouldn't be running without these guys keeping them on the road. They get the boutique stuff in because of their club connections.
They are purely a repair shop with a little boutique business done on the side, the shop is a workshop, full of bikes in various stages of repair. Great wee place. If they can make it work then surely it's a business model worth investigating.?
Yep, seen all of that and more. The customers who bring the bike in, explain the problem and then add in "so I tried fixing it myself..." and you instantly know that the job is going to take twice as long fix because you now need to fix their bodge as well!
The cheap bikes that are just expected to last forever but when you tell them the cost of a replacement part, they think you're ripping them off because the whole bike was only £100 so how can a tyre be £20?!
Had a guy once with a road bike - pretty decent one actually - which he'd been using for commuting and general riding since he bought it and he came in because the gears weren't working properly. I have never seen a drivetrain so worn - the jockey wheels were virtually non-existent, the chainring was more just a slightly lumpy circle.... The guy seemed surprised that bikes needed parts replacing although to be fair he paid up in full for the entire strip, rebuild and complete new drivetrain.
STW is an incredibly niche part of an already niche industry. The vast vast majority of people who ride bikes can't even tell you how many gears their bike has never mind the components on it, the wheel size, the seatpost diameter, the brand of tyre...
A guy came in once wanting to buy a replacement seatpost and we asked what size, he said "oh about that big" making a circle with his thumb and forefinger. We patiently explained that seatposts came in 0.2mm increments, he couldn't just guess, maybe if he could tell us the make/model, we might be able to find out? "Err...it's blue, does that help?"
No sir, it doesn't.
But that is 90% of the work of a mechanic - keeping day to day clunkers running as cheaply as possible.
we've had people pick items off the shelf who tell us how many pounds cheaper it is from CRC/Merlin etc and then get huffy if we give them a bit of discount but won't fit the item for free.
old bikes are the worst. customer spends £100 on a bike 5 years ago, rides it to work every day then is incredulous when told the whole drive chain is shagged due to zero maintenance and needs replacing. they also expect the shifters to work with XTR smoothness even though they were awful when they came out of the factory all those miles ago.
A few years ago I worked as a mechanic for a summer job after being made redundant. I was in the shed at the back and was told to price my work on a ticket tied to the bars. When bikes were collected shop owner would regularly knock down the price to cost of parts only, because "They won't want to pay that much".
Bikes were invariably bottom end rubbish. Never saw any decent bikes. Guys fixed their own, knew mates who would help or good bikes don't go wrong as often as the rubbish.
A dispiriting time.
My experiences have been similar but not many as extreme as the ops.
Many people just don't get it - including the "just take the mechanic a pack of hob knobs" clowns on here.
But being firm, assessing bikes fully before taking them and saying no can help.
Replace parts rather than fix even if they can be fixed just like car mechanics.
This saddens me. There's skill and much benefit in repairing parts.
O don't want the lowest common denominator .
And since you fixed it any issues with it for the next five years are your fault and you have to fix them free of charge.
1. Don’t take on loss making jobs. There is a massive opportunity cost and customers that bring them in rarely appreciate it. Do your kindest / best customers always pay on time? These people are getting in the way of your good customers. You end up with bad customers because you don’t…
2. Say no / kick non paying / bad customers out of the door. Cassette man is knocking at your door because he has neither the skill nor tools to do the job himself. The last Bikeshop he tried to get a freebie out of probably sent him packing. If you say pay up or shut up 50/50 he will simply pay. Do the work for free and you set a president for a long term time waster.
3. Pay new boy a set price per jobs until he is good enough for you. If he’s not qualified there is a YouTube video that will help, or give him an apprentice salary until he is ready and train him.
4. Replace parts rather than fix even if they can be fixed just like car mechanics. Leave the tinkering to customers that want to tinker.
1. Is that loss making at minimum wage or at a grown ups wage? Our customers pay when they collect their bikes. About 1 in 20 never collect their bikes.
2. We did kick him out. He went to another bike shop who quoted him a tenner. He came back and saw another mechanic who said the price was actually £4 per cassette. He went again
3. The position was a temporary mechanic to cover a months sick leave in May. No training time, get in and do the job.
4. Genius. Your XTR jockey wheels are worn, that'll be £130 for a new rear mech. Your wheel bearings have gone, that'll be a new wheel set then. Seriously, that's what gets bike shops a bad reputation. We discuss the issues with the customer and between us work out the best solution. That may mean I spend an hour rebuilding a shifter if it's a nice STI job, cheap kids twist grip, bin it and chuck a new one on.
"can you just show me how to wrap this tape I bought from eBay on my bars" was a good one. the answer of yes for the £5 labour charge I can didn't go down well
I am increasingly thinking that seperating the 2 ala the motor trade might be the way to go.. a repair business that isn’t invested in selling stuff other than to facilitate repairs wouldn’t be focussed on selling the bikes to stay in business and could therefore start towards making a profit out of keeping all the online bought bikes on the road. Because they aren’t part of the retail business, in theory, their services would be seen as having greater value than the mechanic stuck in the back of the shop.
My preferred LBS (not closest, but preferred) is basically this. It's one guy and his shed. From his facebook the work is 2/3rd local cheap bikes in for "make it work again" services, and 1/3rd "nice" bikes in for an annual service or other work (my Rocket went in last month for a complete strip, bearing change, fork travel adjust and swap, etc).
“can you just show me how to wrap this tape I bought from eBay on my bars” was a good one. the answer of yes for the £5 labour charge I can didn’t go down well
Some people don't recognise a good deal when they see one. £5 for a one-on-one training session that will lead to the tutor having less work in the future?
Speaking of which I need to talk to my LBS about showing me how to strip a cup-and-cone hub without losing bearings and probably putting it back together in the wrong order. I do think more workshops should offer focused training sessions on either basic maintenance to stop the flood of knackered bikes, or for specific skills such as how to strip and rebuild a hub (charged at an appropriate rate obviously).
Based on the above you’d think that a customer walking in with a ‘boutique’ bike for a service, or more complicated work like fork servicing, PF B.B. or brake hose shortening would be something to cherish, especially when they are polite, don’t quibble over the price or complain when the work isn’t completed when agreed.
My local shops must be inundated with expensive work, as they tended to treat me as an annoyance rather than an opportunity. The upside is I can now service everything myself now so no need of them.
A flippin’ nightmare. Cytech, Velotech, Weldtech etc are not worth the paper in the real world. We advertised for a temporary mechanic to cover long tern sickness.
One of the lads in my cycle club (teenager) started work in the shop I was in.
Problem was, he was a very good Youth / Junior racer - part sponsored and also had loaded parents who'd bought him all the fancy bits he could ever need. His MTB was more tricked out than the bikes of all the adults in the club put together although give him his due, he could actually ride. However he also knew he was good and that, coupled with him being about 17, made him an obnoxious little shit.
Arrives in the workshop, Day 1. Oh, not working on that, it's not got XTR. Slagged off every bike brought to him. Refused to work on anything worth less than £2000 (this was back in the mid/late 90's so £2000 was serious, top-end bike money then!).
Genuinely couldn't understand that there was a whole world out there, away from the rarefied atmosphere of racing, where people did not need or want £2000 bikes. He didn't last long...
I do think more workshops should offer focused training sessions on either basic maintenance to stop the flood of knackered bikes, or for specific skills such as how to strip and rebuild a hub (charged at an appropriate rate obviously).
What would be an appropriate rate for showing someone how to do your job so they don't come in for your services again?
Arrives in the workshop, Day 1. Oh, not working on that, it’s not got XTR. Slagged off every bike brought to him. Refused to work on anything worth less than £2000 (this was back in the mid/late 90’s so £2000 was serious, top-end bike money then!).
So day 1 was his last day. Would have been in any shop I ran.
But being firm, assessing bikes fully before taking them and saying no can help.
This every time, learn to say no !!
Managed a bike shop some 20 years ago. One year the powers that be decided we had to compete with everyone else in the £99 Xmas bike market. We made £30 on each bike at the most. They were awful things, v brakes made of plastic coated tin, just about every wheel needed truing, weighed as much as e bike does now. If you costed the time to build them we probably wouldn't have broken even. We sold about a hundred of the things. I spent the Xmas holidays worrying about how many would be waiting at the shop door when we opened again. One wheel was all we saw of them again, returned due to loose spokes. We came to the conclusion that at that price point nobody actually used them more than a couple of times then shoved it in the garage never to be seen again.
This is the age old problem of qualifications vs experience. Reading a book, passing theoretical exams are a sign that you have the aptitude to learn however real world experience is also invaluable.
I feel sorry for the lad, he has gained qualifications that the industry deem advantageous to the job application but clearly needs real world experience to back the credentials up. It seems to be commonplace amongst all industries these days that the preparedness to invest time in a prospective employee starting out is no longer there and they expect instant results instead.
What would be an appropriate rate for showing someone how to do your job so they don’t come in for your services again?
Thats obviously an important question, and the hourly rate for a 1-1 training session shouldn't be trivial. That said even though I can mostly strip my bike myself, I tend to give it to my LBS because I don't want to spend an entire weekend doing so!
FWIW when I did my Velotech Gold the instructor made a point of getting us to recognise and work on older/cheaper kit.
VEry interesting thread. Over the years i've sat and thought "maybe if i were made redundant i'd use the payout and start a little LBS...."
Maybe not 🙂
BTW I've done the mobile mechanic thing. Great between May and September. But for 4 months there was no work at all. Just as well I was only doing it for fun money when I had a proper job for 3 days a week.
I think in most line's of work with customers, it's fair to say customers are difficult and unreasonable. I'm an A&E nurse and the customers I see on a shift pose a range of challenges, but I get paid a decent wage and work for a large company that spends a lot of time looking at how we engage our customers, no matter how difficult they may be. For a small business like most lbs's this must make things even harder, as they don't have the time or resources for doing this. I would have no idea what the demand would be for say some guided bike maintenance sessions, or how much buisness running a shop ride would bring, and if money was tight would I be able to risk it to find out or give up my day off to ride with customer's? It must be incredibly difficult. But this certainly resonate's with me;
My local shops must be inundated with expensive work, as they tended to treat me as an annoyance rather than an opportunity. The upside is I can now service everything myself now so no need of them.
I have yet to find an lbs where I have enjoyed the customer experience, and I have tried a lot of shops over the years and have been happy to pay good money and I'm happy to pay a proper price for good service. At best, if I have known what I want, and it is in stock, you can get in and out without fuss and might get polite service. But anything more complicated or where a workshop is involved, my predominant experience is that things have either gone ary or the customer service has been poor. So like the quote, I just learnt to do the stuff myself. It seems weird, I am time starved with work and family stuff and would far rather pay someone to do some of the jobs I do. But I would rather be stood in my freezing garage at midnight when the kids are all in bed sorting my bike out than go back to using an lbs. I can appreciate customer's are difficult and unreasonable, but some shops certainly need to look at their attitudes and practice towards them. There is little wrong with treating others as you would wish to be treated.
There's a lovely thread on retrobike about a guy down in Southampton who started a "servicing only" bike shop, he does builds for demon frame works and now sells orange bikes - it's an uplifting tale and shows how it can be done, not easy but possible.
I do think more workshops should offer focused training sessions on either basic maintenance to stop the flood of knackered bikes, or for specific skills such as how to strip and rebuild a hub.
can you not get this from YouTube ?
I would always check out YouTube for guides when dealing with anything new.
bleeding a brake on a new bike when shortening a hose etc
I do think more workshops should offer focused training sessions on either basic maintenance to stop the flood of knackered bikes, or for specific skills such as how to strip and rebuild a hub.
Evans Cycles used to run free evening sessions - in fact I helped run a few of them. You had to book on but it was free and the shop supplied team/coffee and biscuits and while the session was specific (ie punters knew in advance that it would be focussed on, say, gears) it was very much encouraged to be a fairly open session, ask questions as you go kind of thing.
They were good and generally very well receievd, we ran some women-only ones too. Back then though it was relatively simple - now there are so many possibilities around things like brakes (how many models of disc brake, plus various rim brake set ups, road vs mtb...) or gears (SRAM, Shimano, Campag, mechanical vs electronic...) never mind the cxomplexities involved when you get onto things like full-sus. You could probably run 6 sessions just to cover all the possibilities of brakes whic is why YouTube is probably a better resource these days.
We still do fix it classes, £15 for one hour and you get a goodie bag with some useful stuff in it. Covers the basics, punctures, brakes and gears etc
We still do fix it classes, £15 for one hour and you get a goodie bag with some useful stuff in it. Covers the basics, punctures, brakes and gears etc
My own view is that those that want to sort their own bikes would benefit from such a class, and would then use the likes of YouTube so you don't need to run a class on each brake. I think if you can teach the basic principles, then folk will self guide better to learn the specifics. Everyone starts from a different point of mechanical competence, so don't think one approach will fit for all, so a range of services are great.
In my experience, there seems to be a strong correlation between those that moan about bike servicing/repair costs and those that have bikes that undergo unexpected, spontaneous disassembly in the trail head carpark. (I have no connection with cycle industry).
@crazy-legs I know someone who fits exactly the description of the obnoxious teen mechanic you talk about. I wonder if it's the same person?!
There seems to be a strong correlation between those that moan about bike servicing/repair costs and those that have bikes that undergo unexpected, spontaneous disassembly in the trail head carpark. (I have no connection with cycle industry).
I remain torn. I've had good experiences with shops (e.g. last week when they re-trued two brand new Hunt wheels that had gone wayward after the first couple of rides for a modest fee, in less than 24 hours) and awful ones too (full suss bike went in for new bearings. Was with them two weeks and was finally returned with the existing bearings re-packed with grease because "they couldn't get hold of new ones". I got stung for a mountain of labour and, unsurprisingly, they seized again 3 months later. I taught myself how to change bearings at this point.)
I value my LBS and I do use them, but I don't use them nearly as much as I could (or, perhaps, should). Generally, I now try to be self sufficient. It's not purely about cost, but actually practicality. e.g. if my son's race bike needs a BB between two races, I simply don't have the time to drop it in, wait for the work and then collect it again before the next race. I've got a good track record though - we've never had to abandon a ride/race because of a preventable mechanical problem - and I spend a lot of time on preventative maintenance, which probably wouldn't be done as diligently if I wasn't doing it myself.
I've enjoyed reading this thread though. It's reminded me that next time when I'm moaning about a pressfit BB, I should remember that it could always be a seized up, open bearing job...or a quill stem, or some crappy horrible groupset that barely worked properly when it was new! We're spoilt now.
In my experience, there seems to be a strong correlation between those that moan about bike servicing/repair costs and those that have bikes that undergo unexpected, spontaneous disassembly in the trail head carpark.
In my experience, the moaning has nothing to do with it. It's folk that won't pay to get the bike sorted, or those that don't have the interest or ability to maintain their bikes that this happens to. One of my mates moans extensively about the price of repairs, servicing and parts, but it does not stop him paying to keep his bike in good order. Seems to prefer that to doing it himself.
I started my own LBS 14 years ago now and a lot of what's written above seems quite at odds with my own experiences. I've moved with the times. When I started it was worth keeping a full set of XT componentry ready to go, now I don't stock anything higher than Alivio and I've also stopped stocking bikes for sale so the repairs are the mainstay of the business
The repair work I do now is typical of what's been written in this thread but I don't find myself on the receiving end of nearly as much grumbling as others here seem to. I try to treat people as I would like to be treated and stay late if the backlog gets to more than a couple of days. For all that I appear to be earning a slightly above average wage and I have a loyal bunch of regulars, all of whom are very nice folks. And to qualify that, I'm not based in an absurdly affluent area. When I moved into my current premises my landlord who had previously run the place as a butcher's shop told me if I could make a business work here I should be able to make it work anywhere.
The repair work I do now is typical of what’s been written in this thread but I don’t find myself on the receiving end of nearly as much grumbling as others here seem to.
People will always go down the route of moaning though and a lot of what gets brought into workshops verges on the faintly ridiculous which makes it more entertaining than "person brought bike in, mechanic repaired bike, customer paid in full, said thanks and walked out wiuth functional bike".
One of the better ones we had was a guy who'd filled his deep section MTB rims with water because "it makes the bike go faster"
Nothing to add here, but 😯
Customer bought a bike from us then decided to fit a dropper. Bought a stealth dropper but the frame didn’t have a hole for the hose. Customer uses an angle grinder to extend the seatpost slot all the way down the frame to get the hose in. Puts jubilee clips round seat tube to secure it all. Decides he doesn’t like the bike so tries to return it to us for a refund. Gets very angry when we refuse.
At Christmas I often get a neighbour asking me to look at the piece of shit that they’ve bought for their kid.
You can spend all day working on the brakes and THEY JUST DONT WORK.
Id hate to have to work on them all day.
When I worked as a mechanic I started to refuse to do work if the "front of house" employees hadn't quoted, checked the bikes over properly.
Otherwise I'd have 4 or 5 bikes a day with "oil cables brake and gears" services. *shudders*
Eventually we got it to the point where quoted work pricing was within a 5er of the end pricing most of the time.
Customers were happy, because they knew how much they were expected to pay and what was going to be done.
I was happy because I didn't have to spend my day on the phone to customers asking for permission to add £100s worth of bits/labour to the service. Or trying to repair things that were just plain broken.
Managers were happy because the repair income increased as bikes didn't sit waiting for unforeseen parts/confirmation from customers. Turn over of repairs picked up, turn over of stock(replacement parts increased).
We could occasionally convince a customer to buy a nice bike (£200-300) rather than spend £150 on repairing a ~£50 BSO.
There would still be the odd nightmare that'd appear and sneak through the net, but because it was the exception rather than the rule it was a lot easier to deal with and less depressing.
That being said it's still a hard job trying to satisfy everyone and judge peoples level of expertise/understanding.
That innovative dropper post modification in the OP is the funniest thing I've read in ages. Surely sights like that must make it all worthwhile?
Makes me realise I'm lucky to have a friendly, well-priced LBS who actually seem happy to see me, even if they can't always fit me in right away.
My "LBS" is actually a workshop only set-up, run by someone I ride with - he is always busy, but every time I go in there is always something in there that makes me wonder why someone is going to spend ridiculous amounts of money on repairing a BSO. I seem to remember him saying that one of his most common jobs is repairing punctures, so it goes to show what those guys have to deal with on a daily basis!
That innovative dropper post modification in the OP is the funniest thing I’ve read in ages. Surely sights like that must make it all worthwhile?
‘Bloody robbing bastards tried to make me buy a new frame or seat post! I showed them!’
Fascinating post from CFH there. I've had it suggested a few times by people that I should do bike repairs or similar to earn some money, but I just KNOW that most jobs would be to sort out Apollos and the like that people have left in their gardens... no way. I haven't even got the patience with my well(ish)-looked-after kit!)
My favourite LBS (Sivyer Cycles of Havant) has just shut down, I believe. The bloke was a legend - I bought my Tripster off him just to give him the business (and he gave me a large-ish discount without me asking!) - while I was there once, bloke turns up with a BSO, rear mech in bits. Siyver fella stops what he's doing, checks the mech, replaces the jockey wheels, and whatever else. Charges the bloke a fiver! Nuts. Probably knew the abuse he'd get if he asked a proper minimum charge. Although, it was the fellas only travel method to get home.
Definitely not a job I could do (especially as it wouldn't pay the mortgage!!)
Blimey, just remembered, many years ago me and a mate used to spend a lot of time in the LBS in Portsmouth. Owner was a bit of a snob - the sort that intimidates non-bikey people when they go in a shop - 2 young lads came in one day with cycling shoes they'd bought off him - the cleats on both pairs had pulled through the soles. LBS bloke says "these are XC shoes and you've been doing jumps in them" "No no mate" is the response... but I tell you - these shoes were utterly knackered! And! Covered in talc to hide the stink! Unbelievable - he still took them back, can't recall if he refunded or replaced, but shouldn't have done either really!
i did interview for a roll in a shop recently .
i didnt bother taking it as my current job never expired as expected (was moved to another position when the contract ended ) but even from the offset i could see i was going to be depressed in that job.
I think the only way i could work in the trade again is if it was on my own.
MY experiance in an indypendant shop echoes that of borus and mostly balanced and i do think its very much a difference between a chain store and an indy. Wheni worked for a large chain we were actively discouraged from taking in BSO and fixing up bike with priority being given to bike that were bought from us etc.
where is in the indy the customer service was king and we would fix anything - we would be honest about the cost and honest about the *worth* of doing it but if the customer wanted it the customer got it. we rarely had discrepancies between quote and actual cost because front of house quotes were done by the same guys who would be fixing them - we did everything from rudge with rod brakes to full once team replica TCRs with Super record.
when your front of house staff are people who could for all they care be working in spar you get vaguebook repair cards and end up having to do Guess repairs or as above refusing them.
odly enough the indy is still there doing well , the chain seems to be on a downward spiral the last time i was in, i certainly dont shop there - i do still shop in the indy despite it being along way from my house. Ordered my new Propel from there , owe the owner alot ,he taught me alot not just about bikes but about work and life - i look at my 10 years there as my apprenticeship.
I think a pricelist would help in most places.
£5 innertube change plus cost of innertube
£7 innertube change if tube provided by customer
etc
Last time I popped into my LBS to get a chainring bolt tool, the two guys running the place sucked their teeth and said it's £15 I don't expect CRC prices but that's 5 x more expensive.
You all have my sympathies
I work on my own bikes in the main, other than the forks and brakes I'm reasonably competent and can stick a nice bike together in a few hours no problem
Friend asked me to service an old hack that she had been given.. Absolutely impossible to get anything to work to any level whatsoever. After about 2 hours of trying to get the brakes working I finally gave up.
I had a guy haggle to try to reduce the price of a bike rebuild by £10. It was a crap bike. The previous week I’d seen him on the cover of the local paper, collecting a cheque for £230,000 on the post code lottery. I stopped returning his calls.
"The pedals are loose and the gears have gone a bit funny on my mate's bike, could you have a look at them for me please?"
Cue one absolutely hammered 90s Kona with shagged drivetrain and knackered loose ball BB that we had to use heat on the cranks to loosen the taper and a length of pole on the spanner to get the bastard things off the BB axle. We just stuck a new BB in and sent him on his way, it was one of those times when it would've just been cheaper to buy a decent second hand bike 🙁
The problem I think is that it’s geared to the lowest denominator, the person who wants to pay fifty quid to get their rubbish bike fixed. Then when I want my nice bike fixed properly I leave disappointed because the shop has employed people at €8 an hour and they cock it up. That is my experience anyway. Now I have a guy who does my bike, it’s costs €30 an hour, the same as my car mechanic costs, but the bike is perfect. I pay a bit more, sure, but I know it’s right and won’t let me down.
I also have all the tools and carry stock of spares, more than many shops. So when I have time I do it myself. It’s right 99% of the time and the other 1% I’m learning!
Maybe the bike industry need to separate the service. There are plenty of people out there prepared to pay more to get their bikes properly fixed. I know out here in Spain that people are posting bikes to this guy to get them fully serviced and fixed up. Then for the teeth-suckers and punters out there have something cheaper, with minimum wage mechanics just out of school.
I should probably clarify a couple of things.
The majority of our customers are lovely, the examples of bikes I gave were more to counter the comments on the other thread that fixing bikes was dead simple, just watch a video and away you go.
The £50 bike repair was fine. It was discussed with the customer when he brought it in and we agreed the level of work and his expectations. We priced it accordingly and we and the customer were happy. I brought it up to cover the point that some shops don't have any mechanics with qualifications and my view that qualifications are generally worthless in the real world.
We do check bikes over when they come in. Every customer leaves their bike with us knowing what the bill is going to be. If that changes for any reason they'll get a call to explain why and make sure its OK to continue. There is no excuse for grumpiness or rudeness even if the customer is a dick.
Today however is a good day! My boss greeted me this morning by saying that he had a budget meeting yesterday and partly due to the savings made by having one less mechanic we have had a pretty good year. So not only am I getting a small pay rise, but we can switch the heating on for a few hours a day this winter. I'm very happy.
I can totally see the guys point. If people don't value their bike then they won't value the work on it. Yes, people like us don't mind spending a bit of money servicing our bike as we want it to last, if that bike cost £150 a few years ago would we be dropping half that on an annual service? No.
I support my LBS, my bikes have come through them and I by a fair few parts and consumables from them too. I'm mechanically-minded so they don't do a lot of my service work but what they do I appreciate and don't mind paying for the work in the slightest.
I might take them a packet of Hobnobs next time, one thing the post has highlighted is that they are underappreciated for the service they provide the community.
A few years ago my LBS lost all of my custom because I'd asked my wife to drop a wheel in them to have a DH tyre removed (I couldn't do it at home as I'd snapped a couple of tyre levers, and needed it for t he weekend).
They charged her £50 for the privilege of removing a single tyre. They didn't refit a new tyre. She just paid, knowing I'd taken stuff to them before (which had been priced sensibly in the past).
It was eventually refunded after I went in, but it's places like that that take advantage of people that need a jolly good shoeing...
A few years ago my LBS lost all of my custom because I’d asked my wife to drop a wheel in them to have a DH tyre removed (I couldn’t do it at home as I’d snapped a couple of tyre levers, and needed it for t he weekend).
They charged her £50 for the privilege of removing a single tyre.
I'd love to hear the LBS side of this. You broke levers, they wouldn't have magic ones !!! But I wouldn't admit it took me 1 1/2 hours to remove a tyre let alone charge for it Lol. It would have been "no probs 5 minute job". But made a mental note to lock the door if I ever saw your missus walking towards the shop again.
I’d love to hear the LBS side of this
This. Along with what actually happened.
This. Did you ask why it cost so much? How long did it take them? Did they break any levers. Obviously it's a lot of money, but if someone had to struggle with it for 2 hours they need to be paid!I’d love to hear the LBS side of this. You broke levers, they wouldn’t have magic ones !!!
if someone had to struggle with it for 2 hours they need to be paid
if someone had to struggle with it for 2 hours they need to find a new job.
When I moved into my current premises my landlord who had previously run the place as a butcher’s shop told me if I could make a business work here I should be able to make it work anywhere.
Are you in Newport?
This. Did you ask why it cost so much? How long did it take them? Did they break any levers. Obviously it’s a lot of money, but if someone had to struggle with it for 2 hours they need to be paid!
Yes. They were wire-bead DH tyres on D321 rims; I broke plastic tyre levers and didn't have one of the metal DH tyre levers at home. It was something I couldn't do. I was happy to pay for their time - I used them a lot, used to buy most stuff off them, knew them reasonably well.
They did it there and then using a long-handled metal tyre lever in front of my wife. I bought a Pedros one shortly after so I wouldn't have to go back.
This. Along with what actually happened.
Well, she was there, then I went in and shouted at them about the ridiculous price, and they agreed and refunded me - they said it was "someone at the till who got confused". The shop was BikeproRacing in Kings Heath, if you're interested...
@tomhoward not sure why you're calling me a liar without any justification, but hey, everyone's a keyboard warrior...
£5 for a tube and fit?! What century are you from?!
Laughable.
Same experience here... I was helping out in a friend's bike shop and decided to take a couple of repairs on myself to see if i could make a go of it. I quickly realised that there's nothing more dispiriting than trying to fix up a crap bike that nobody cares about; my back ached from bending over and the customer didn't want to pay a reasonable amount for the labour.
I have a friend who has a bike shop and he struggles to survive; can't get a decent bike brand so he spends most of his time doing repairs and to add insult to injury people buy parts on the web then expect him to fit them.
sure why you’re calling me a liar without any justification, but hey, everyone’s a keyboard warrior…
Easy turbo, I’m not. I’m saying there is always three sides to every story, two from the parties involved, then what actually happened.
do you often fly off the handle in the first instance?
seems to me that the shop helped you out in a pinch, cocked up at the till, then sorted the error out when made aware of it. For that you’ll take your business elsewhere, and pour scorn on them on the internet, at the slightest chance
cheers,
Keyboard warrior.
I’m saying there is always three sides to every story, two from the parties involved, then what actually happened.
*Screech* Reverse-ferret alert.
As I said, it's easy to call bull**** from behind a keyboard when there's no comeback, but I'm not sure why (other than simple trolling) you felt the need to do so.
Anyway - I'm a reasonably competent home mechanic, but in this case after a while I realised I simply wasn't going to be able to get the tyre off.
In fact, now I think over what happened, I'm fairly sure I'd been in before to ask for their help with this same wheel/tyre combo and they'd simply done it there and then without asking for payment - not that I was asking for that in this case - but I do think charging someone with no idea of the proper fee £50 for a pretty simple (with the right tools) job is deplorable.
do you often fly off the handle in the first instance?
Ah, I see - clearly trolling. Do you often call complete strangers liars in the first instance - oh, yes, you do...
@tomhoward, Oooh, stealth edit, well done.
Gosh, you really are going all out for a troll, aren't you?
It clearly wasn't an error at the till - small shop, a couple of staff in, the same guy that did the job rings up the till.
That was the excuse that was given when I raised it afterwards - it was clearly an attempt to rip someone off.
pour scorn on them on the internet, at the slightest chance
Er, no - first time, actually. The point that's got slightly lost is that not all LBS are good, honest folk subject to the whims of the great unwashed and to be victimised by Joe Public - actually, some are prepared to rip people off given a chance.
Seeet pea. At what point have I called you a liar/said that anything you have said didn’t happen?
When I come across issues like this in shops I apply ‘never assume malice, where incompetence would fit’
if they’ve tried to keep your fifty quid by fumbling some excuses/justification, fine, hang em high. If they’ve realised the mistake and refunded, then I think you are massively overreacting. But hey, your money, your choice. But it would suck if you couldn’t use them next time you can’t get a tyre of a rim, eh?
We've clearly got some pretty sound LBS owners/staff on this thread.
Perhaps they can tell us how often they make that kind of innocent mistake?
Seeet pea. At what point have I called you a liar/said that anything you have said didn’t happen?
I dunno, seems quite clear there?
When I come across issues like this in shops I apply ‘never assume malice, where incompetence would fit’
if they’ve tried to keep your fifty quid by fumbling some excuses/justification, fine, hang em high. If they’ve realised the mistake and refunded, then I think you are massively overreacting. But hey, your money, your choice. But it would suck if you couldn’t use them next time you can’t get a tyre of a rim, eh?
No, you're right. It's quite easy for someone to ring up £50 on a till for removing a tyre, then run the credit card through, and allow the customer to leave, before they realised their mistake.
Thankfully I bought the Pedros DH tyre lever so it wasn't an issue. Thanks for being so patronising though.
Then a couple of months later the bike was nicked which put paid to the problem in any event.
I used to work as a bike mechanic in a big warehouse sports store (Olympus Sports) and in the two years i worked there we had maybe 3 bikes in for work that you'd have classed as decent. Most was exactly as described in the original post.
The really cheap stuff that we sold was awful too, you'd literally take them new out of the box and they'd be broken, wonky wheels, burred edges on the metal or the brake mounts would be at an odd angle making them virtually impossible to set up. But like someone said above, we didn't get many back, the standard of £100 bikes don't really encourage you to ride often enough to break them.
In the winter I doubled up as the ski tech and that was the only time I got a tip from a customer, £5 for servicing his skis while he waited rather than shoving them on the rack to do later.