Any gear i can spin is a favourite at that exact moment.
The last time I posted about this and suggested that 1x systems were a godsend for the mechanically challenged and those unable to co-ordinate the use of two fingers I was roundly castigated. It's good to see some folk are at least standing up and admitting it.
1x has provided some additional flexibility in frame design though.
And at least SRAM don't have to struggle to make a front mech that actually works now.
The last time I posted about this and suggested that 1x systems were a godsend for the mechanically challenged and those unable to co-ordinate the use of two fingers I was roundly castigated.
Well that is trolling isn't it..
meanwhile new car alert
My bottom gear is 22/36
my top gear is 32/11.
i can spin top up to 20mph (just) while my bottom gears will get me up anything it’s actually possible for me to cycle.
but i do need all of the available ratios, 11 or 12 isn’t enough for me, hence my comment (again) when we get to 13/14 speed, that will probably be right for me.
im glad you’re happy with 11, but you do need to accept that not everyone else has the same needs as you.
I reckon you would be fine with 28 10-42
22/36 0.611
32/36 2.909
30/42 0.714
30/10 3
28/42 0.666
28/10 2.8
If your missing one of those on the outside give it a go
You can reckon what you like
28-10 isn’t enough for an xc sprint or anything like enough for a fast road ride.
32-42 isn’t easy enough when deep into a mtb marathon up really steep hills.
It misses by only a gear or two but those are vital gears. However I still use it for racing because when tired I like the sequential shifting so I choose a chainring and accept the limitations. When training over a whole year I like to prioritise certain efforts and if you’re faced with a big hill but don’t want to go out of zone 2 then you need easier gears and if you want to ride a road chain gang on your mtb then you need harder ones. 2 by kinda works well for this.
And when you go through 3 drive trains a year then cheap is definitely good!
I agree with all your points @marty, but you missed out chain retention. That was the thing that really annoyed me about 2x on an off-road bike. (And it is why I can't see the point of 1x on the road.)
For me, I can just about get the range I need with 1x10 but some of the changes are a bit wide, closer ratios would be nice but not essential. If the chain stayed on more in 2x, I would be going with that and a closer ratio cassette.
Yeah chain retention could be an issue, terrain makes a difference too, if you live somewhere relatively flat then 1x makes a lot more sense
im not against it in principle, it’s just that I need more than 11.
YMMV
I am just too stupid to operate both a front mech and a dropper post with my left hand so 1xN makes life a lot less annoying on the mtb.
Road bikes are 2x and I an happy with that.
28-10 isn’t enough for an xc sprint or anything like enough for a fast road ride. 32-42 isn’t easy enough when deep into a mtb marathon up really steep hills
Cleary the answer is 1x12 32/10 and 32/50.
Feels smug...
Out of interest then and for someone (me) who's very out of date and not your typical mountain bike rider.
I ride (pootle around on) a rigid Singular Swift both on and off road (the majority being on rough country roads) as a sort of a-typical gravel bike.The bike's a bit of a chubster at over 27lb and although a keen and regular cyclist I'm 50 and only moderately fit.
I'm currently riding and old school 3x9 (XT Octalink) chainset with a range of 44x11 to 22x34 and occasionally need the lower gears winding in places my way up Cheddar Gorge whilst coming down I find that gravity alone accelerates me to the point where 44x11 seems the only viable gear to add anything to my speed; on a nice bit of smooth, flat tarmac in agreeable weather I can probably maintain 20mph in shortish bursts in the high 3rd of the gear range in the big ring .
When upgrade time is forced upon me what would my options be for a double or single ring set up (I've kind of convinced myself that I'd never manage with a single ring); sticking with a a triple would be fine too.
I've been riding this range for so long that I feel certain that I need the equivalent of 44x11 - 22x26 but would I adjust (perhaps with a change in cadence) over time to something new?
People can preach about it as much as they want but 1x is not the correct choice for everyone.
You can make as many statements and pull out as many numbers and figures as you like but not everyone either wants or needs 1x.
It seems people are desperate to re-enforce the decisions that they've made to justify them.
Just go and ride your bikes...
I’ve been riding this range for so long that I feel certain that I need the equivalent of 44×11 – 22×26 but would I adjust (perhaps with a change in cadence) over time to something new?
Almost certainly, also perception of waht gears are adding to your top speed and by how much was one of the more interesting parts of swapping over for me, the key part is waht those numbers actually deliver you and at a point what does a 3x offer over a wider range 2x. Thankfully it's actually really easy to work out what you get from each gear set.
single ring systems are just better really though aren't they - not game-changingly so but just - well - better
top reasons for me...
Annoying chain clatter on the front mech on rough descents eliminated
Equally annoying chain rub on the front mech at the extremities of the cassette eliminated
Don't seem to get chain suck anymore, probably as a result of clutch mechs and narrow wide chaining's that can be optimised for chain retention rather than ramped for shifting.
Fewer chain rings and no front mech means less places for oily mud to accumulate and makes cleaning the drivetrain a lot easier. This means I am more likely to do it regularly and have a longer lasting, better performing drivetrain more of the time.
Sequential gearing (I could certainly cope without but its just nice to have)
Bigger gaps between gears - can see how this could be a negative for some but I actually prefer it. I always choose the harder of 2 none ideal gears and have got stronger because of it. Also my 42T x 30T setup has nearly but not quite the same range of easy gears as my old 2x setup. I still ride every steep climb I used to, I just ride them faster and have gotten stronger. Short term pain for long term gain. This is also a reason I don't want to invest in the new 50T cassettes (aside from cost) - going back to my old gear range will likely make me weaker again.
Many small benefits result in a big improvement in my opinion.
Just got back from ride on my 3×10 29er with bar ends
3x10 26er here. Front mech doesn't seem to bite.
Kryton. How much will your new cassette, chain, and jockey wheels cost you if we have a muddy stage race next week. 😉
@Pjay When upgrade time is forced upon me what would my options be for a double or single ring set up (I’ve kind of convinced myself that I’d never manage with a single ring); sticking with a a triple would be fine too.
I did exactly this - went from a 3x9 (and even 3x8!) set up straight onto 1x11. 32t front 44/11 rear (I think!).
I do, on really long hills, miss the lowest gear. But I am talking about winching up Ben Chonzie type climbs. It is a noticeably wonky chainline in lowest gear, with attendant wear and drag.
I more miss being able to really thump along at speed on roads or descents - I spin out. But I now just sit and enjoy the view more, and learn to get aero...
On balance I love the simplicity. It doesn't bother me enough to go back to 2x - perhaps I might play with it at somepoint.
On my bike I always used to get a little bit of grit in the front mech that stopped it working.
Let's not forget how much easier it is to clean a bike that doesn't have a mud trap fitted to it.
I have three MTBs with three different gear set ups. A SS rigid, a 29er HT with 2x10 and a 160mm full susser with 1x10.
They all get used in different ways and the gear set up I have is what I want for that type of riding. 1x is great and I love it on my big bouncer, but it's just not right for the other bikes and riding I do them.
There is still a place in the market for the front mech. Albeit a much smaller place than a few years ago.
Edit: I run the 29er with a 38/24 up front and 11/36 out back. whats the equivalent in the 1x world? When stuff wears out I'd love to change to 1x if possible (genuine question BTW i'm not trying to be cocky and catch people out, as I really don't know the answer).
Kryton. How much will your new cassette, chain, and jockey wheels cost you if we have a muddy stage race next week.
£31.99 for the Jockey wheels, 'cause the rest will last 3x as long as the Shimano version...
...so I'm told. 🙂
Edit: I run the 29er with a 38/24 up front and 11/36 out back. whats the equivalent in the 1x world? When stuff wears out I’d love to change to 1x if possible (genuine question BTW i’m not trying to be cocky and catch people out, as I really don’t know the answer).
I think (12s) 10-50 would get you a milli-smidge off that with a 34t.
Cheers swanny. Will have a look. Imagine it'll cost a bloody fortune though....
Well it might be a bit expensive if you just do it for the sake of it, but if you are already replacing the chain/cassette/middle ring anyway, it might not be that much more.
Kryton. My Sram 11-42 is definitely lasting well on my 1x bike. Keep on top of chain replacement though as they wear as fast as any other and a stretched chain will kill your cassette. I did a chain in about 100hrs of hard riding.
ndthornton
Equally annoying chain rub on the front mech at the extremities of the cassette eliminated
Annoying chain clatter on the front mech on rough descents eliminated
doesn't happen using sram twist shifters as you have a dozen clicks to change the =front mech so intermediate positions and also shouldn't happen if the mech is properly set up. I don't have this on my bike.
Fewer chain rings and no front mech means less places for oily mud to accumulate and makes cleaning the drivetrain a lot easier. This means I am more likely to do it regularly and have a longer lasting, better performing drivetrain more of the time.
Again not an issue with my 2x setup - as I don't use messy oils.
Also with a 2x you have better chainline most of the time. Parts are a lot cheaper as well
Again not an issue with my 2x setup – as I don’t use messy oils.
Mud still collects on a front mech though regardless of lube. A 1x setup with no chain device is definitely far easier to clean out. The impact of this depends on your local mud though of course.
NOpe - very rarely an issue for me. I do run mudguards tho
Quite easily I could probably eat and type at the same time, though for shifting gears why should it be a 2 handed operation gauging how many to lift at the back to compensate for the drop at the front or vice versa – if your after close shifting it’s the exact opposite.
So you really don't have a feel for what gear you are using and what the needed correction at the back is for the (very infrequent and planned in advance) shifts at the front? Or are your gears too jumpy and clonky to shift two or three at the back in one go, under power?
And not being able to set a front mech up. Deary me. Takes about 5 minutes for a double, including getting it out of the packet. (Shimano or Campag of course. SRAM i don't even bother getting them out of the packet.)
SRAM i don’t even bother getting them out of the packet
I thought they'd stopped making front mechs?
I love my 1x although as someone said, it's not ideal for all, and who cares? its not like there aren't a hundred variables of drivetrain to choose from.
Just had a look at the ratio steps on the eagle 10-50 cassette.
Ahahhhhahhahhahhhahhahhahhahahhaha.
No. Not for me.
I thought they’d stopped making front mechs?
We can hope! Not had to touch/fit/deal with a SRAM drivetrain as a mechanic for a couple of years. At least. (X5/7/9 still have doubles apparently, as do GX and XX groupsets)
(The road mechs are pretty poor compared to the competition, especially when you consider the double tap shifters)
Just had a look at the ratio steps on the eagle 10-50 cassette.
Is it that bad? (I say this as someone who always found road cassettes had the gears too close together, admittedly). 5 of the gears, 21-36 are identical to a shimano 10s 11-36. The five high end gears are still 2 teeth apart all the way down but 10-18 instead of 11-19. Admittedly that makes for higher percentage steps but not horrifically? Then you've got the two bailout gears bolted on the back.
If you're holding pace in a group on the road or timetrialling, I can see how those even the shimano cassette might have big gaps, but for most of us just slogging round is it that much of a problem?
Admittedly that makes for higher percentage steps but not horrifically?
I find current wide range cassettes quite gappy, adding a double means i can fill in the gaps easily.
Going to a wider range cassette, with bigger gaps and then removing the ability to fill the gaps. Nope. No chance.
Christ, i even used to race off road (20 years ago) with a large road cassette and triple to get away from the gaps.
but for most of us just slogging round is it that much of a problem?
Maybe not for you.
I find current wide range cassettes quite gappy, adding a double means i can fill in the gaps easily.
I'm genuinely interested here- do you actually change back and forth between the chainrings while you're in the middle of the cassette to find the gears in between?
Edit- or do you mean a double lets you use a close ratio cassette?
On 8, 9 and 10 speed i've done both, road cassettes and doubles or wider range cassettes and front shifting to fill the gaps, depends on the course. Some courses/races/events i've not shifted at the front at all.
11 speed i'm still not sure if it'll be viable, i'd either need a road freehub to get 11 speed, or use the ultegra 11 speed cassette (11-34). It will be something i try this season i think. Depending on if i can get fit enough to justify racing.
And yes, i change between the chainrings, its easy.
Fair enough. I must admit I'm impressed you can reliably find you're in slightly too hard a gear, shift at the front, then at the back the right number to get back to just below where you were to start with. Practice I suppose. I always viewed the front mech as a 'high/med/low' range selector.
Fair enough. I must admit I’m impressed you can reliably find you’re in slightly too hard a gear, shift at the front, then at the back the right number to get back to just below where you were to start with. Practice I suppose. I always viewed the front mech as a ‘high/med/low’ range selector.
Honestly, that’s very easy to do on any 2x or 3x set up.
I’ve recently got 1x11 on my newest MTB. (Also have a 2x10 MTB, 2x10 monster-cross and 2x10 ‘proper’ cross.) The 1x11 copes with most rides - I spin out on anything vaguely downhill on the road, sometimes need to drop several gears frantically trying to find some pedalling resistance after cresting a hill, sometimes wonder why my legs are struggling so much up steep climbs on the 32t ring. I wouldn’t want a 1x on any of my workhorse bikes, though it’s fine on a purely off-road bike.
One other take here is the SRAM vs Shimano thing, especially on non-MTBs...
I have SRAM Force 2x10 on my road bike and Shimano Ultegra 2x11 on my CX bike and I simply can't use strong enough words to describe how much better the Shimano bike shifts compared to the SRAM one. Leaving aside consideration of double-tap vs Shimano's dual lever, the action on the Shimano bike is lighter, more precise and infinitely more pleasurable to use. Personally, I prefer the two lever solution, but it's the action and quality of the kit that stands out for me here, rather than the control implementation.
If it was a choice between SRAM 1x and Shimano 2x on the road/CX, it would be a no-brainer to me - Shimano 2x every single time. Now if Shimano finally get some decent 1x kit out this year, this might muddy the waters, but for now I have no indecision over which I prefer.
doesn’t happen using sram twist shifters as you have a dozen clicks to change the =front mech so intermediate positions and also shouldn’t happen if the mech is properly set up. I don’t have this on my bike.
I hate grip shift and that doesn't address the annoying chain clatter which is worse.
Again not an issue with my 2x setup – as I don’t use messy oils.
I take your point but I use wet lubes which don't get washed off after the first puddle and actually lubricate the chain. Use chain cleaning device after every wet ride - 2 mins - job done.
Also with a 2x you have better chainline most of the time. Parts are a lot cheaper as well
1x is getting cheaper but in terms of chain line yes, that's definitely points for 2x. Not enough to swing it for me though.
Honestly, that’s very easy to do on any 2x or 3x set up.
Hmm. Checked the numbers and fair enough, for a typical triple you're talking a chainring shift and two recovery shifts to get you that in between gear (when using the middle and high- I can't see it being practical between middle and low, it's 3 recovery shifts if there's an in between at all). I can't see that working for me but that's the personal preference bit.
in terms of chain line yes, that’s definitely points for 2x.
I'd assumed this, but when I think about it I think there are too many variables for it to be a blanket statement. If you always shift carefully, avoiding cross chaining etc, then yes, but if you don't (and I don't think it's uncommon) you presumably have more potential for a poor chainline. E.g. someone who uses a double, mostly in the middle of the cassette, will have slightly worse chainline than 1x most of the time because the chainring is offset and the potential for much worse in big-big. Made worse if, as seems likely, the 'big' ring is bigger than the single ring- you're in bigger sprockets for the same gear, leading to a higher chain angle. I doubt 1x is better, but I don't think it's that clear cut. Then you've got the extra loading of front shifting regularly too.
I’d assumed this, but when I think about it I think there are too many variables for it to be a blanket statement. If you always shift carefully, avoiding cross chaining etc, then yes
Yes but an experienced and skilled rider soon learns not to cross chain and maintain a good chainline. 1x wins out on chainline for beginners and those with no mechanical sympathy. But not the majority of riders I would say.
Just trying to add a bit of balance - Im most definitely anti-front mech these days 🙂
Yes but an experienced and skilled rider soon learns not to cross chain and maintain a good chainline
You have a more optimistic view of the majority of riders than me! I don't think a lot of people I ride with pay that much attention.
Am I the only one who runs 32/11-40 1*10 and sneakily leaves the 25gm inner ring on in case of leg failure (I've never used it, but nice to know it is there!) but with no front mech.
All the benefits of sequential shifting, yet with the option of a manual shift down should I find myself on an interminable climb with bad legs...
