[Closed] Mason Insearchof vs Salsa Cutthroat

Unfortunately I have only ridden one and its the same one you have. Like you I loved it and I'll probably get one eventually. I am a bit of a Salsa fan boy though and already have a Spearfish and a Mukluk.

Surely it comes down to whether you want carbon or steel? They are both basically drop bar rigid 29ers.

I suspect the ISO has a more compliant ride but its not slow - josh ibett just won the gbduro on one. I do think Salsa probably has more form when it comes to design in this area and I hate the mudguard thingy on the iso, but really like the salsa framebag which is bolt on.

Metal or carbon - whats your poison?

Thanks Winston...food for thought.

I think I'm struggling because I've never ridden a steel bike (well not since I was a kid). Only alu and carbon.

The lightness of the carbon does does appeal.

I've watched a few of the josh ibett videos on YouTube. Inspiring stuff.

The Mukluk looks like a heap of fun!

I’m sure the ISO is great to ride. It certainly goes fast (with a Josh on board at least). And I love Mason.

I own a Mason.

But I can’t get over the looks. Sorry! Not for me.

The cutthroat seems great, and if you like the ride I’d say “that one!”

I've only sat on an ISO so I can't comment on one but I have got a Cutthroat that I used for the Atlas mountain race. Its a fantastic bike and so comfortable and efficient.

I know steel is real and all that but the Cutty has the Class V rear end which does a great job of killing uncomfortable vibes.

I've got a bolt in frame bag from Straight cut and you can fit loads in it.

Pop Cutthroat into the search bar on Advntr.cc as I did few write ups about them.

Agree the Mason isn't a looker!

Having a read on Advntr.cc now. Cheers.

I think biketreks (now moved from Ambleside to Ings) have them for demo

cheers. will check Biketreks out.

The Atlas mountain race looks right up my street.

Crossed a desert in the Sudan earlier this year.. not by bike though!

I rode a Cutthroat in last years Tour Divide race. Obvs that is defined territory but i will never ever sell it. An amazing drop barred off-roader if you are into big miles

I’m biased as I’ve got a green ISO in Canada and love it, amazingly capable and comfortable mile-muncher. I got it for future adventures such as TD. I’ve never ridden a Cutthroat but did consider it.

What swayed it for me is that I already have a Bokeh which I love, and I’ve been really impressed with the design, thought and level of service from the Mason Team. The looks definitely grow on you and the integrated front mudguard / carrier is ace. The new Vela colour looks great too. Both excellent choices.

Can we have an STW rule...
No ‘VS’ threads without photos and or links.
Thank you.

I have an ISO ridden it comprehensively over all those terrains you mentions and its an amazing bike as Mason say 'Fast Far'- it's a bike that just wants to keep going . I posted about my ride experiences previously in another thread. I haven't ridden a Cutthroat but do own a Salsa (El Mariachi). The Mason really does exactly what its designed for with aplomb its exceptionally well balanced particularly when fully loaded with bags front & rear also water bottles on the fork. I've also played around with it as an XC MTB here in the Chilterns & it snaps in & out of singletrack corners with fun and speed. I went for the ISO due to its leanings towards being more off road - its boost spacing has a 1x XT front ring can be converted to 27.5 and frankly its just that bit more bespoke. I have carbon XC bikes but for me when it comes to the adventure side of riding it has to steel, I just feel more comfortable about it taking a hit and having ridden steel before its a no brainer. Regards the looks it different but frankly its more about its performance I also like it's uniqueness. The only downside I can find with the ISO is its not fast on the road but I feel this is mainly due to the spec that made me choose it (XT 34 front ring & wide tyres & rims) but it still feels really comfortable on the road & not out of place. GRX is amazing as well along with the Venture Max bars (I went with 44 rather than the spec 42).

Carbonfiend and Hanky: thanks so much for your input on the Mason. Great info.
I will search out Carbonfiend's writeup on this forum.

My first priority is off-road and bikepacking functionality. Looks are secondary.

The thing that most frustrates me about my current bike is that I find myself wanting to get back to some of my local trails. So whatever I get has to be comfortable on the singletrack I have right outside my door.

The attraction of the Mason is its off-road ability, and its an exciting bespoke build from a UK company who I can call on with anytime I fancy.

Coming from a carbon bike for the last few years though steel is a bit of a leap for me.

To complicate matters I've been offered a great deal on a new Cutthroat.

@jomko some links!

https://salsacycles.com/bikes/cutthroat/2020_cutthroat_grx_600

https://masoncycles.cc/shop/categories/insearchof-bikes

@Carbonfiend @Hanky

Have you tried a suspension fork on the ISO?

I was listening to a podcast from the designer of the Cutthroat and he was espousing the benefits of using a suspension fork on it to tackle tougher singletrack. Also to beat the rider up less on long routes.

I know the Mason is specced to take a suspension fork.

I haven't used a suspension fork, I have an XC F/S for any type of riding I feel a suspension fork would be required and I bought the ISO with its spec fork in mind. Ive also been riding rigid carbon forks for a number of years on my El Mar so riding rigid doesn't really phase me for want of a better description. I'll stick my neck out and say if its more trail oriented riding & bike packing you want then its the ISO, this is what this bike is designed for. There's a 100k ride I do in the Chilterns its a mixture of mainly single track trail, Ridgeway bridlepath & 10% road & I choose to ride it on the Mason as I can carry all the provisions I need including extra water as theres only one shop on route which is near the end, I wouldn't ride this route on any other bike I own.
FWIW I would say if you test an ISO one aspect I quickly realised is this bike is best ridden almost entirely on its drops -I never go on the hoods like a road bike even when climbing. The ergonomics of the venture max bars & the geometry of the bike make it such that it fits so well ridden in this position & the GRX brakes are perfectly positioned for single finger application.

I can definitely echo the awsomeness of Venturemax bars. I have the 44cm with super grippy Lizard Skin DSP on my Arkose and on the drops you feel so locked in the control is fantastic.

"I’ll stick my neck out and say if its more trail oriented riding & bike packing you want then its the ISO, this is what this bike is designed for"

cheers. that exactly what I want to do.

I rarely ride on drops but I did hear that about the Venturemax bars. Its sound like the geometry on the ISO is really sorted.

really useful info. thanks so much.

“I’ll stick my neck out and say if its more trail oriented riding & bike packing you want then its the ISO, this is what this bike is designed for”

Sounds pretty much like a Fargo with Cowchippers, not sure if you've considered that option.

I sat on a Fargo... just didn't do it for me I'm afraid. Kept looking at the Cutthroat!

I haven't tried suspension on my ISO but have seen some interesting builds with Lauf etc. I don't need to go in that direction as I also have XC HT and FS. There's definitely some overlap with my other bikes but the Mason is a unique proposition and a fast smile-inducing bike-packing rig. I regularly ride it on mixed terrain with a mate on a Scott gravel bike and as soon as the gravel gets looser the benefits of the 29er 2.4 tyres and confidence inspiring geometry help it maintain speed, so overall there's little in it. I'm also a big fan of the 44cm Venturemax bars, and the GRX brakes plus XT Di2 combination is brilliant. The luminance package with the Sinewave Beacon was a good upgrade, and I'm looking forward to Dom and the team releasing the ISO front carrier that they teased a while ago.

I rarely ride on drops

Then, controversial opinion here I know but - why buy a drop-bar 29er? I love drop bar bikes but there's a clear line for me. If the tyre that really is needed is a bigger 29" tyre then drops just tie one hand behind my back on anything fast that requires a bit of handling. Into a headwind on smooth sections a set of drops might gain you a bit of time but a bar with MTB brakes and a more MTB XC riding position will handle better off-road in general. IME if the drops are low set to be used as a lower position benefit then they stress you too much on long off-road rides and you end up on the hoods a lot which in't good for comfort or control compared to an MTB bar, if they're set higher, well then they're just like a very narrow flared MTB bar.

Something like the Tour Divide is unusual in that there's a lot of open, mid-grade dirt road and I can see drops of MTB bars being 50-50 personal choice stuff. But on 'UK Gravel' like a Scottish estate track that leads to some nice singletrack or a mix of byways and woodland trails, drop bars make little sense to me. Riding bikes in circles generally makes little sense either so I don't want to sound too polarised here : )
For road touring with a few off-road sections, no problem on drops. But then I'd want a bike that's light with a quicker geometry that feels more road-like anyway. Or maybe a Fargo for more heavy-duty touring.

I found there's a real difference between a flat bar XC style geometry when on long distance bike packs. I used to bike pack my El Mariachi & the switch to drop bar specific adventure bike was huge, far more proficient, safe & balanced handling. Efficiency too & the angles of say an ISO lends itself to one being perfectly positioned for long periods of time (days) with an ability to effortlessly switch from one terrain to another (trail, singletrack, road & gravel). I think what sometimes gets conflated is the difference between a gravel & adventure bike, I get often asked about my ISO as if its a gravel bike, then I explain the differences (boost single 34t front ring geometry & loading capacity) - check out the load Josh Ibbett put on his front fork for GBduro.
The venturemax bars on an ISO aren't low set as you would equate to a road/CX or gravel bike - this is what caught me out when I first rode it and why I suggested to the OP to go straight to the drops, there is a contour to them that fits perfectly into your palm plus the higher pivot point of the GRX brakes allows you just cruise in & out of corners and never feel twitchy on anything technical - It really is a one of a kind bike.

@carbonfiend eloquently described.

@jameso when I say I rarely ride on drops I'm talking about my road bike. I believe the ISO is setup in a different way. Although obviously I've not ridden one.

That's the major sticking point for me buying an ISO, its a leap into the unknown!

The bikepacking ability of this bike seems to be exactly what I want though. Being able to ride on drop bars through all kinds of terrain, fully loaded up. I think one reviewer described it as a bikepacking superbike.

Obviously I've been reading tons on Bikepacking.com and other sites and it seems that steel is much favoured for its forgiving ride quality, fixability and toughness.

I did find myself looking at pure steel mountain bikes this afternoon. Particularly the Bombtrack Beyond with its Jones bar as an alternative that still provides multiple hand positions for longer rides.

When I say I haven't ridden steel I actually forgot that I one owned an Orange C16R (yes I'm that old!) one hell of a mountain bike!

Much to ponder still!

Bombtrack also do the steel hook adv which has a sus fork and a great paint job, the beyond adv has the Jones bars but theres also the drop bar beyond Which may be worth looking at.

I’ve got a Bombtrack hook extc which is a great do it all gravel/ adventure bike. Fast and light at 9kg but lots of mounts for packing it up as well.

Take a look at the Bombtrack Facebook group. Lots of beyond and hook users on there.

Hi Nick - trying to message you about the Cutthroat offer you've had, but I can't get the PM working on here! Let me know if you're willing to share details.
Cheers
Nick B (another Nick!)

Carbonfiend, I don't doubt it's a good bike for you, what I'm getting at is that the good things it offers over a lot of MTBs for bikepacking will be things like quicker-steering and that drop bars just don't enhance off-road riding. They might work OK, you and I may like them, but there are situations where I'd have a fiver on being able to ride faster, safer and smoother on a more MTB-like set up with the only drawback being a less road-like feeling on the road. Which imho isn't really a drawback, it's just about what your used to and the preconceptions. Anyway .. not saying either of these bikes are wrong, just a counter-point to the trend for drop-bars off-road at the moment.

when I say I rarely ride on drops I’m talking about my road bike. I believe the ISO is setup in a different way. Although obviously I’ve not ridden one.

Yes they look a lot higher which makes sense so you can actually use the drops most of the time. But my point about the higher 'dirt drops' then being just like narrow, very flared flat bars stands.
I'm sounding like a bit of an arse here perhaps : ) plenty of riders like Jaquie Phelan and Richard Cunningham had preferences I wouldn't question and that's all this is, preferences and riding attitudes. I do question the general logic of dirt drops once you go beyond a basic randonneuring / rough stuff type of use but I guess it comes down to your riding attitude.

Being able to ride on drop bars through all kinds of terrain, fully loaded up.

If you want to do it on drop bars then they look like good options : )

"Trying to message you about the Cutthroat offer you’ve had, but I can’t get the PM working on here!"

Me neither! I got an email saying I had a message but nothing in my inbox. I am new here though.. not quite sure how it works!

I use my rigid El Mariachi as my 'adventure' bike and I find it perfect. The angles are ideal for mile munching on road, for me. But along with the ability to take proper big tyres it also means it's an MTB so I can ride all manner of singletrack if I want.

If I lived in the Lakes I would not be happy with 2.0 tyres. I use 2.3 in South Wales and this lets me ride as fast as I like on the rocky trail descents, and also take advantage of the singletrack that links them up. I have much more riding options available to me on the bigger tyres.

I have set it up for speed, with a 660mm high sweep bar and a low stem. I have compromised on chainset with 1x but it can take a front mech if needed.

I would love a Cutthroat, but I would never part with my El Mariachi for the riding I want to do.

Brother mehteh is another option in steel.

Brother mehteh is another option in steel.

Nice bike, but it won't run 29er tyres so not comparable.

I used to bike pack my El Mariachi & the switch to drop bar specific adventure bike was huge, far more proficient, safe & balanced handling.

I'd like to add that my flat barred Salsa is the best balanced and best handling bike I've ridden by far. Drop bars are not a necessity for that!

Complete curve ball but have you looked at a Kona Sutra LTD? I took a punt on one and love it. Can run up to 2.25’s I think, currently got 50’s on it and it’s very capable round the Peak District where I do all my riding.

They’ve also brought out the ULTD this year with dropper post and geometry which to me at least looks like a Unit.

Anyway, feel free to ignore OP, just a thought.

Complete curve ball but have you looked at a Kona Sutra LTD? I took a punt on one and love it. Can run up to 2.25’s I think, currently got 50’s on it and it’s very capable round the Peak District where I do all my riding.

What’s it like off-road?

"Complete curve ball but have you looked at a Kona Sutra LTD?"

Funnily enough I had been looking at this bike. An interesting option for sure

There's so much to consider though. I would like to have the option to ride 29'ers as well at as 27.5in

The one thing I'm now sure of is the bike is going to be made of steel or titanium (except maybe the fork)

Debating whether I should consider a steel hardtail with flat bars and add some options to get a more aero comfortable position for longer gravelly stretches and road.

Did a mega road/gravel ride yesterday ending with a lap of Ladybower. Made me think I've grown so used to riding on drop bars though now and I'm used to the feeling of speed I get from them.

I wouldn't be riding a drop bar bike over anything massively technical though. Its more about doing epic rides and covering a lot of ground.

so far my shortlist is now:

Mason ISO (perhaps still my favourite)
Bombtrack Beyond+ ADV with Jones Bars
Sonder Broken Road Titanium

What’s it like off-road?

Very good. Capable of riding pretty technical singletrack. Clearly not super-fast, but if you know local trails in the Peak, I’ve ridden everything at Blackamoor on it (Piper House Gate DH for example) as well as slightly tamer stuff round Eastern Edges, Shilito Woods, Linacre Reservoirs and Cartledge Lane.

Very good. Capable of riding pretty technical singletrack. Clearly not super-fast, but if you know local trails in the Peak, I’ve ridden everything at Blackamoor on it (Piper House Gate DH for example) as well as slightly tamer stuff round Eastern Edges, Shilito Woods, Linacre Reservoirs and Cartledge Lane.

Interesting to know you've ridden trails like that on it.

Might try and track one down to have a look.

Where in the Peak are you? Welcome to take a look at mine (I’m in Totley). Word of warning though, if you’re after a lightweight bike, look elsewhere...!

Where in the Peak are you? Welcome to take a look at mine (I’m in Totley). Word of warning though, if you’re after a lightweight bike, look elsewhere…!

Ha. As light as possible but had realised that I need a reliable rig that can Bikepack so not being a weightweenie on this one!

Glossop. Not too far.

I see on bikepacking that Genesis have launched 2021 spec Fugio 30 in 725 tubing. If its  a steel long distance rig you want then this might be worth a look. Nice paint job too.

Debating whether I should consider a steel hardtail with flat bars and add some options to get a more aero comfortable position for longer gravelly stretches and road.

I've got the Mickey handle bar on my Big Dog. Haven't taken it on multi day trips yet (curse you covid) but have taken it on some longer rides where I've been able to get into a tucked-ish position to stay out of the wind.

The new Fairlight Faran looks pretty ace too.

They've put together a good "lookbook" with all the design info and stuff which could be worth a read

Fairlight Faran 2.0

Interesting options.. thanks.

Just happened upon this:

https://www.konaworld.com/sutra_ultd.cfm

Seems to be taking the Sutra more off road focussed. Dropper Post etc..

Just happened upon this:

https://www.konaworld.com/sutra_ultd.cfm

Seems to be taking the Sutra more off road focussed. Dropper Post etc..

They do look good don’t they, basically a drop bar rigid 29er. Think I said in my earlier reply they look a lot like a Kona Unit with drop bars.

They do look good don’t they, basically a drop bar rigid 29er. Think I said in my earlier reply they look a lot like a Kona Unit with drop bars.

Sorry I forgot you already mentioned the ULTD. Might message you if you dont mind? Would love to have a look at your Kona Sutra.

Nick

At the moment I think its between the Kona ULTD and the Mason ISO. I'm been convinced steel is the way to go for loaded bikepacking.

I think I will end up getting a flat bar MTB as well to be honest.

Would be a good two bike setup!

For anyone looking at the Sutra there are some great articles on bikepacking.com

like this: logans-kona-sutra

I wish Bikepacking.com would review the Mason ISO. I guess its more difficult to get hold of in the USA.

Must say I prefer a carbon fork but I can see the benefits of steel for bikepacking.

Yep @theothernickh, drop me a DM and sure we can arrange a meet up. What size are you after? I’m on a 52cm.

I’m been convinced steel is the way to go for loaded bikepacking.

Must say I prefer a carbon fork but I can see the benefits of steel for bikepacking.

If you see a benefit for the frame, you'd see more benefit for the fork. FWIW I think it makes little difference really in general, design makes a lot more difference than just material. Steel is just tough stuff if you're travelling with a bike. I simply trust it more than carbon but I'm always told I'm being irrational there.
The idea of comfort being greater with carbon forks isn't always true, it depends on how a steel or carbon fork is built. And with 2.3" tyres and a loaded bike ... makes even less difference as does the ~350g or so in weight. Most people over-pack by a kilo or 2 anyway.

If you're about to spend that much on a bike I'd not worry about what reviewers say, I'd get a test ride. Even just a 2 or 3 day trip, comfort and feeling at home on the bike counts the most. If you can, strap a 2L coke bottle full of water to the bar and under the saddle and see what happens. A bike that feels good unloaded doesn't always feel good with a load on and V-V.

Can't comment on either bike, so this question really is a diversion, but this thread already has some knowledgeable folk interested:
What about a flat bar 29er with tri bars? Super unfashionable I know, but I wonder what this setup might be like.

@jameso good points, cheers. I need to get out of carbon roadie mode and into traveller mode! Intend to take the bike for big trips abroad. For example I would love to do something like the kyrgyzstan bikepacking route.

Actually my favourite bike ever is my Steel Orange C16R, a great fun and forgiving ride.

@the00 was looking at that set up too. I do see a lot of bikepackers with a tri bar setup.
I used to ride tri bars when I did triathlon a few years back. As I said before I think I will end up getting a flat bar MTB as well.

I guess I just feel a lot more confident riding drops nowadays and feel I make good progress on them on the road/gravel rides that I do on my Cervelo C3. I (probably wrongly) associate flat bars with being a slower and having a fixed hand position.

That Kona looks great.

So here's a question. Assuming I can fit drops onto my El Mariachi without extending the reach too much - how to do it? If I want drop levers I need Shimano 105 really, don't I? Can I fit them onto MTB calipers?

EDIT but wait, I'd have to use a road cassette then wouldn't I? Grr.

@molgrips I'm not overly technical but yes, most drop bar bikes use road/gravel levers as far as I know. Its a comfort thing too, the hands rest naturally on the hoods.

What about a flat bar 29er with tri bars? Super unfashionable I know, but I wonder what this setup might be like.

Tour Divide's been won on that set up (as it has on a drop-bar 29er). I've use my Jones loops as a support for a tuck on the few occasions it gives any aero advantage. Clip-ons are mainly used to give your hands a break over long rides rather than the aero benefits.

I guess I just feel a lot more confident riding drops nowadays and feel I make good progress on them on the road/gravel rides that I do on my Cervelo C3.

I love how a good road bike feels but imho/ime long days on a loaded bike off-road are pretty much the polar opposite in terms of bike fit, set up, handling, everything really. Efficiency of drop bars on a fast day ride pales into insignificance after a week on the bike when whatever bar you have, you'll wish it was an inch or 2 higher or the grip area was more supportive, etc.
What gets difficult is when you want a bike that is good for a mixed-terrain day ride as well as that week+ ride. That's where I think you're on the right lines of an ISO, the Kona, a Cutthroat etc as none are 'day ride MTB' design ie for technical terrain primarily. They're all more agile bikes that will handle a load better and the bars aspect will just come down to comfort and preferences.

@jameso thanks so much for all the useful info. I can tell you speak from experience!

^ sort of, but still ride my gravel bike loaded up in places where I end up silently cursing it, and enjoy it..

What about a flat bar 29er with tri bars? Super unfashionable I know, but I wonder what this setup might be like.

Clip on tri bars on my road bike really wreck the steering as even though they are carbon the weight is very noticeable. They are good in races like the Tour Divide because you are smashing out endless miles on smooth roads often into headwinds, where the tuck is enough of an advantage to be worth the down sides. And they are races.

There's also the inboard bar-ends idea which is currently fashionable in the right circles. I intend to try it out as I think it'd be great on my flat bars. But that's perhaps a quirk of my particular bike - I'm borderline medium/large, but my bike is large meaning the TT is relatively long for me and consequently the bar ends would be in the right place for a decent tuck. This is probably a coincidence and may not be the case for all riders/bikes.

Oh and then there's loop bars, where you can ride on the front of the loop if you want a tuck. The rear of the loop may provide support for your forearms too. Does anyone mount those arm cups on loop bars?

the inboard bar-ends idea which is currently fashionable in the right circles

Simple ergonomics, it makes sense. H-bars have a sort of cross bar join at the same point and give a similar feel. Inboard bar ends have been used for ages, had them on my MTB for touring in 2003 or 2004 and I think I borrowed the idea from a 24hr racer's bike I saw a while before that.

Does anyone mount those arm cups on loop bars?

Sort of - used foam forearm rests on my Loops for a race. The small lumps on the fwd section helped position my forearms or act as a grip point.
Thing with aero bars on a long distance bike is that a comfortable LD position becomes quite inefficient to pedal in when you lean fwd onto the aero bar position. I tried full clip-ons and there was no real gain, less drag yes but also lower power output. I adjusted the bike's fit for a more XC fit (the Jones is fairly short, actually suits aero bar fit better than most MTBs) and it was better for pedalling in the aero tuck but personally I couldn't hack the lower bar and more fwd saddle position for real multi-day stuff.
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edit - spot the bike computer and cues/map holder, that's how long ago it was
edit 2 - "They are good in races like the Tour Divide because you are smashing out endless miles on smooth roads often into headwinds" - endless and headwinds yes, 'smashing out' no, smooth roads no : )

My Kona Sutra Ltd is the most fun bike I’ve ever had. Great for razzing around lanes, fire roads and non-mountain singletrack. Get some big 2.1 Nanos on there and you can go almost anywhere!

They are good in races like the Tour Divide because you are smashing out endless miles on smooth roads often into headwinds, where the tuck is enough of an advantage to be worth the down sides

I can’t remember these endless miles on smooth roads from when I raced it. Less than 10% I believe. The key benefit for me was positional change and the ability to rest on the bars. You take a beating on the rough tracks and the aero position takes weight off the wrists.

If it helps you make your mind up @theothernickh, I’ve swapped the 50c WTB Ventures out for some 29 x 2.25” WTB Nine Lines this evening. Still great clearance and will take it out for a monster cross test tomorrow evening. Looks great though.

If it helps you make your mind up @theothernickh, I’ve swapped the 50c WTB Ventures out for some 29 x 2.25” WTB Nine Lines this evening. Still great clearance and will take it out for a monster cross test tomorrow evening. Looks great though.

Cheers. They look handy!

Its going to be the a Sutra ultd or the Mason ISO. Been looking at the geometry in more detail. Either would do the job! Mason is set up with a shorter reach and higher stack. Ideally wanted to sell my existing bike before pressing the button. Not sure how long I can wait though!

Maybe join you for a ride up Hathersage way when I decide!?

Nick

Maybe join you for a ride up Hathersage way when I decide!?

Yep, definitely on for that, either of those bikes will do you really well I reckon. Just give us a shout.

Evening guys. Interesting thread this. I had been looking for a 27.5/29er gravel bike. Looked at a few mentioned on here, NS Rag, Mason Bokeh, and numerous others. The bike that ticked most boxes was the Genesis Vagabond but they were sold out.
Anyway I have ordered a Sonder Broken road Ti monster cross. Broken road frame, Rigid Kinesis Forks, Ritchey riser drop bars, DT Swiss 29er wheels. Not picked it up yet, but if I don't get on with the drops my thinking is I can run it as a rigid 29er MTB with a flat bar.

That sounds like a great build @monkeysfeet, never tried a Ti frame but can expect them to be lovely and compliant. Be interesting to hear how you get on with it when it’s ready.

Cheers. Alpkit have been great all through with answering questions about the build. (The Alpkit Ambleside store manager has a similar build but I didn't manage to get hold of him)
I had a Cannondale Slate 105 a few years ago which I found really harsh. I also have lower back problems, so I'm hoping the larger tyres, ti frame and a bit more upright position from the riser drops will give me a nice riding position.

Also worth mentioning is the Ti 650b adventure bike from Ribble Bikes. Great value but it just looks really ugly. (Apologies to any owners)

@monkeysfeet Interesting build and a very appealing bike. I didn't know people ran them with drops. Is the geometry quite interchangeable between drops and flat bars on the Broken Road?

I was in the Alpkit a few months ago talking with Pete Pete McNeil (mostly about the Sonder Frontier). The setup he ran in the Silk Road Mountain Race with the Broken Road is a good option with flat bars I think.

Video here if anyone hasn't already seen it:

Also there is a good article here on the drop bars vs flat bars

https://www.theproscloset.com/blogs/news/choosing-a-gravel-bike-vs-a-hardtail-29er-mtb

I spoke at length with Tom at Alpkit about the geo and my needs/type of riding etc. Tom agreed running drops would not be an issue. We even spoke about a custom option but I decided to keep the frame stock so if I wanted to I could use the frame as an MTB build. My MTBs are all hardtails and steel so looking forward to riding a Ti bike.
I live in the lakes so the bike will probably get some nights out bike packing too. The biggest challenge will be tyres, something ok on tarmack and gravel.

These are the bars I have gone with https://eu.ritcheylogic.com/eu_en/comp-ergomax-handlebar
I'm hoping for a bit more of an upright position.

BR has reasonably modern reach and long ett so I would have thought you would struggle to make it work with drops?

Yeah, I compared it to the Cannondale Slate which has an ett of 570mm (large) (Sonder is 616 medium) so I am going to try the shortest stem I can get away with to see how that goes.

The Sutra LTD is even more fun with 2.25’s on it and almost as quick on the road too (but not quite). Took it down a fairly rowdy local trail and didn’t die so more that capable on pretty much anything you’d want to throw at it so long as you watch your speed. The Sutra ULTD would be a great bike if this is anything to go by.

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Which 2,25’s did you fit on your Sutra? I’m looking for something a bit more knobbly now autumn has arrived.

Which 2,25’s did you fit on your Sutra? I’m looking for something a bit more knobbly now autumn has arrived.

WTB Nine Lines. Still pretty decent clearance though not sure you’d get something more knobbly on there and mudguards. Definitely get 2.1’s on there with room to spare though.

Edit. Reckon these would still fit fine.

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/wtb-ranger-225-tcs-light-fast-rolling-tyre-tan-side

Just pushed the button on a 2020 Kona Sutra LTD 😎

^ Nice, that's the one that would have got my £.

Great choice @theothernickh 👍 you’ll not be disappointed. Took mine out on Saturday again for the first time in a while (being using the singlespeed mostly) and it was still as much fun as ever. The WTB nine lines were a lot grippier than I was expecting too in the slop.