Just read the article in the mag after watching the launch video for the new Kona LFB. I think the video illustrates quite well the issues highlighted by the article. Kona have launched a bike that would seem to be the perfect bike for getting out into the countryside, covering ground, exploring, maybe strapping some bags to for an overnighter. How have they chosen to market it? They employed a highly talented rider to ride it down a purpose built mountain bike trail, getting impressive amounts of air and general shredding the gnar😂.
It seems like the bike industry just can't help itself. As some of the comments on pinkbike have already pointed out, it's very unlikely anyone who wants to ride like that will be looking at a bike like this and anyone who wants a bike this isn't likely to be sending it over gap jumps! Contrast this with video Cotic put out when they launched the Cascade (which as far as I can tell is very similar to the new Kona). Kinda ironic too given Cy contributes to the magazine article. Perhaps even more ironic is one of the things I like about my Cascade is that it reminds a bit of a 90s Kona!
I'm definitely not against taking drop bar bikes onto what have traditionally been considered mountain bike trails and I can't be bothered with the arguments about what is and isn't gravel riding, as far as I'm concerned it's all just playing on bikes. I wonder if Kona's approach to marketing this bike is actually going to attract the kind of rider who wouldn't normally look at a gravel bike, or will it just confuse people? What's everyone else think?
I totally agree that the current image of "mountain biking" projected by most of the media is far away from how it was when it (and I) first kicked off. I'm still in the "just riding along" category and feel ever more disassociated from what is now portrayed as mountain biking. If I describe myself as an mtber to someone they seem disappointed when I admit that I don't ride off cliffs on a regular basis 🤔.
Are Kona still not available in the UK anyway?
It seems like the bike industry just can't help itself.
^ my bike industry grumbles of recent years in a nutshell.
Feels like being among a bunch of kids daring each other and one-upping each other at times. I don't mean that to sound as disparaging as it may and the need to compete drives so many things like this, it's normal. And we used to do that as 14 year olds with ATBs at the bombhole. But that was us as kids. I'm glad so many of us didn't lose that spirit but it does get applied to too many things too often as soon as blokes and bikes mix. We all love riding a bit that way and aspire to more of it, but there's aspirations for other things driving our motivations to ride. Because the big air image is easy to get attention with we end up presenting 5-10% of MTB as the norm to everyone. Too many find it difficult to communicate anything else.
It's like it's all about how we compare to each other as riders, not how we relate to the places we ride.
If I describe myself as an mtber to someone
I haven't really thought of myself as an 'MTBer' for a long time. I was an MTBer in the late 80s but MTB as a thing has changed a lot more than my riding has in that time. MTB's a pretty broad activity though, always was. I just ride bikes and like to head off-road to find fun trails and nice places. It's a really simple thing : ) That Kona looks good for all that ..
It seems like the bike industry just can't help itself.
Part of me agrees completely with that but then I see car adverts with 4x4s / SUVs caning along beaches and cliff edges or "urban crossover" cars being driven through empty city streets and it's basically the same thing.
There's enough schmucks around to see the adverts and edits and think it's great.
It does seem there's a more mature market in cycling that just isn't tapped into well. Some companies like Cotic, STW and Rab seem to be here, but few others. And certainty few full on bike companies.
On the other hand, that new Kona looks absolutely ace. I had a quick squiz at their website, curious to see if their current range looks as good. Nope - a mismash of their older stuff. Even things that rile me like "Kona" graphics - some on downtubes, some on top tubes, none in the same style as the LFB etc. I realise they're going through a period of change but...
Gravel bikes have a wider market than MTBs. Ancient Roadies now buy them and take them off road which would not have happened a few years ago .
Gravel bikes are the new hybrid you can commute do modest off road, they are genuinely useful.
MTBs have disappeared into a long low slack cul du sac which are not very much use for other purposes.
Just ignore the marketing. There's still plenty of XC bikes and hardtails for sale.
I'd guess most bikes sold at Halfords, Evans, Decathlon etc are very similar to old style MTB's.
Tho admitedly their publicity shop seems to show at antur stiniog, rather than locked outside co-op or being ridden in the local woods
Is that the Kona that looks like a 90s Lava Dome? It looks absolutely lush, drop bars aside; and just goes to show that gravel bikes are just 90s hardtails.
It also demonstrates how far MTBing has moved from the late 90s, and the fact that there are a lot of people who kinda wish it hadn't - or at least wish they could still have 90s hardtails - and so will buy whatever stupid effing label allows them to get that bike back.
Honestly, I wish cars would do the same...
The LBF video certainly makes for a more an entertaining and enjoyable video than it would if they shot one of a middle-aged man pootling along a bridleway.
"MTBs have disappeared into a long low slack cul du sac which are not very much use for other purposes."
They might feel weird at first but most modern long low slack hardtails are good at everything as long as they have appropriate tyres. The only ones that aren't are where the seat tube is too steep so even with higher bars they're not great on the flat. Yes, they're not going to be as fast up a twisty climb in an XC race but for everything from commuting to bikepacking to long XC pootles to trail centres to uplift days, they're good.
Lots of good reviews of varied hardtails being used for non-gnarly riding: https://bikepacking.com/bikes/hardtail/
Is that the Kona that looks like a 90s Lava Dome?
Well, if the 90s Lava Dome had a slacker HA, steeper SA, bigger wheels, longer travel fork, wider tyres and disk brakes? So no.
It’s marketing. Watching a launch video of some pedalling along a gravel road isn’t exactly exciting or interesting to watch. To make it watchable it needs a location with great scenery and weather which over winter in the northern hemisphere isn’t that easy
TBH I haven’t watched the film becuase I have no interest in that type of bike anyway.
They might feel weird at first but most modern long low slack hardtails are good at everything as long as they have appropriate tyres
They're actually fairly shit at what an old 26" hardtail with 69deg HA with 400mm reach, 400mm stays excelled at. You can't have everything. No long AF bike is as nimble as it would be where it shorter.
You just got old. Well... The TBF whole of this forum did.
But who's actually cared about a KONA video in decades anyway
Sorry, what? After 30 years of mountainbiking, I still aspire to "getting rad". At this age it's very much toned down but it involves loads of berms and tabletops and I'd love to be able to throw it flat if I had the chance to put enough riding time in to get comfortable with it.
I can't see anyone's problem with advertising great bikes like this, it sounds like you lot would prefer it if there was some old beardy giffer bimbling about on flat tracks in the woods wearing ancient, faded out kit and not leaving the ground. That maybe most of my riding but seeing someone else do it looks lame as.
Is that the Kona that looks like a 90s Lava Dome?
Well, if the 90s Lava Dome had a slacker HA, steeper SA, bigger wheels, longer travel fork, wider tyres and disk brakes? So no.
Nah - given it's made with skinny Reynolds tube, and based on 100mm forks, I'm not having that. Updated with basic modern standards (eg discs) and you're right about the head angle, but it's still closer to a 90s Kona hardtail than most other bikes out there, and at first glance I genuinely thought it was one. Maybe you're just too young to remember them 😉
Perhaps MTB just seems a bit flat or OTT for some of us compared to the more experimental or open-ended early years. What we have now is experimentation in bike genres and formats so it's all split across MTB, gravel, e-bikes etc and what is left as 'actual MTBing' is skewed.. But really it's all just bikes off-road, all sorts, like it was then.
Loads of interesting views on this. I agree with Jameso's comment. Mountain biking has always encompassed a wide range of disciplines and people have experimented with different set ups. I suppose the difference now compared to the early days is that back then we only really had one choice of bike. They were pretty basic and most people were doing a similar type of riding, whereas now there's a bike for every niche, xc, down country, trail, all mountain, downhill..... Ultimately it all falls under the umbrella of mountain biking and I think gravel is just an extension of this. What terrain you choose ride your gravel bike on will largely be determined by your local geography and your skill level. As for saying you can't market gravel with a middle aged bloke or woman just riding along, I disagree. Bikes like the Kona are the perfect platform for exploring by bike, just give Markus Stitz's last video of riding in Norway. It made me want to get out and ride!
“They're actually fairly shit at what an old 26" hardtail with 69deg HA with 400mm reach, 400mm stays excelled at. You can't have everything. No long AF bike is as nimble as it would be where it shorter.”
That old bike might be better under a younger, sharper, more skilled rider but that’s not most riders, be they beginners or older.
Maybe it’s just me but I find a big long slack hardtail very relaxing on XC rides and then when you find something interesting you can plummet down it like your baggy shorts are on fire, even if you’re not as sharp as you once were.
Whatever the group ride I just ask “is it normal bikes or e-bikes?” and then I either take the 170/157mm ebike or the 160mm singlespeed hardtail. Simple! (Ok, I don’t have anything for gravel rides because I can’t keep up on the road but I don’t like that riding anyway…)
I remember back in the 90s, the letters section of MBUK used to get variations of, 'Why is the magazine always full of tattooed youth doing big jumps and throwing stupid shapes. I'm an overweight middle aged father of two with a mortgage so mountain biking for me is pootling along canal tow paths with an asthmatic dog. Why isn't there more content for people like me!?'
To which Tym would reply with a variation of, 'People like to look at other people doing cool stuff and no one wants to look at pictures of me riding to work.'
I like that some things never change...
Where I despair is on the trails themselves depicted in your tiktokogrambook world. Groomed to within an inch of their lives. 10 yards wide. I read a thread somewhere recently where a trail builder was asking how to add drainage on a corner in some cheeky woods to mean it became totally dry.
We have full suspension, 29" wheels (that make the trail feel less alive) etc - so why do we need flat dry groomed boring trails? So they add in bumps and lumps to make the trail come back alive...
I mean, hello?
Is that the Kona that looks like a 90s Lava Dome?
Well, if the 90s Lava Dome had a slacker HA, steeper SA, bigger wheels, longer travel fork, wider tyres and disk brakes? So no.
Nah - given it's made with skinny Reynolds tube, and based on 100mm forks, I'm not having that. Updated with basic modern standards (eg discs) and you're right about the head angle, but it's still closer to a 90s Kona hardtail than most other bikes out there, and at first glance I genuinely thought it was one. Maybe you're just too young to remember them
Well that's very kind of you, but sadly, I'm more than old enough to remember them. By '99 I was on a Klein (Trek version) and would own my first Kona (Jake) the following year, although the Manitou Mach 5s off one of my earlier Marins were already on my mate's '99 Lava Dome, which he may still have. My brother owned two Kulas - the downtube cracked on one of them, needing a frame swap in the field before he could use it at Mountain Mayhem sometime around 1999.
1999 Kona Brochure here. The skinny tubing on the Lava Dome doesn't look as skinny as I remember, and the RST 381s were a proper budget fork even for the time, hence the swap to the Mach 5s.
I get the sentiment hear. To avoid pigeonholing I’m an off road cyclist. However…
In terms of some one getting rad on a bike in an advert i have 2 thoughts.
There are clearly loads of people who are in it for the gnarr. I’m near chicksands. I go occasionally and it’s full of happy punters looking to push their skills and get air. They are a friendly bunch and it’s s great vibe.
People fall for the stuff in adverts and carefully placed marketing videos. I have a relative who fancied an off road motor bike. A subject i know almost nothing about. However my tiny bit of knowledge was that you don’t want too much weight or power, particularly when starting out. He showed me a video of a pro wrestling an enormous bike through a slide and over some wild terrain. I’m watching the video thinking “Just because Danny Macaskill can ride a bike up a tree doesn’t mean i can”. Any was he bought a 260 Hp off road bike with dry weight of 280kg. I’m not sure it’s ever been off road. If he drops it he definitely can’t pick it up in his own
This is a "problem" of Konas own making.
As soon as you put suspension on a gravel bike you need to justify the added weight, cost and complexity. A lovely, calm video of someone riding it along mossy paths* just isn't going to do that, so you have to step up the level of gnar. Then you risk missing the market as you've just crossed over into XC hardtail territory and your potential buyers are left wondering which way to turn.
* Quoted from Konas own marketing for the LBF.