[Closed] "Lycra is considerably quicker"

Well, if you wear lycra you get disqualified and therefore don't win. So.

Baggy clothes aren't great when you crash but lycra is utterly useless beyond belief. Considering that BMX riding/racing involves a lot of falling off, for the sake of parents/friends/spouses/A&E cleaning up tarmac/gravel/dirt rash I'd say that keeping away from lycra is a good thing. If no-one is allowed to really chase aerodynamics you keep the playing field more level. Do we want everything to develop into F1 levels of aero gameplay?

And bmx in lycra skin suits would look crap 😀

Now, if it's about going faster,

Keeping it real is winning. #tigerblood

So, armoured/aero kit instead then?

Much like DH - Why is image more important than winning?

If results are decided by 100ths of a second, why is it more important to wear teh pyjamas of gnar than to wear clothes that [i]might[/i] give you that extra 100th of a second and therefore mean that you win?

Again, is looking all of teh ossum more important than winning?

I appreciate that the sport has said it is, but is it?

I don't understand - if lycra was allowed, surely they would all wear it. Where's the winning advantage there?

Scuzz, I suppose therein lies the crux of the issue. Why isn't it allowed?

Is it because image is more important than results?

If so, that's simply wrong, IMHO.

I saw a chap keeping it real on the A421 today. He was in his Tri bars, but was wearing parachute'tastic baggies.
His choice s'pose.

taking it 2 da streets... took my mate on a road ride today, he wore baggies and trainers I wore lycra and disco slippers. Obviously I have the aero advantage, but being an over weight 30 year old I'm not sure I really gain anything measurable. TBH, I dress like a roadie as "thats what roadies wear". I know there is more to it than that, and I get a sore Barse when I wear baggies for a long ride, but ultimately I wear what I wear becuase I want to look like everyone else!

If a sport is in the Olympics it should be about going as fast as humanly possible, irrespective of what you look like. They should be allowed to indulge in some lycra every four years.

I'm not sure wearing the latest TLD gear makes make you look any better to the public.

And anyway, what is keeping it real? Real as in like it was in the 80's? No thanks.

R979 - Member

If a sport is in the Olympics it should be about going as fast as humanly possible irrespective of what you look like.

You should tell that to the huge number of events that aren't about this at all.

One of the problems with skinsuits/aero is that it's incompatible with a lot of the protective kit available. And as soon as some people throw away the protective kit for competitive advantage, everyone ends up doing it, and that trickles down from the elite level to the knobber level.

Sure, it's partly about the look but if you look at downhill, I reckon there's an increase in people wearing protective kit at all levels, which has been partly led by the fact that pros are no longer racing in clingfilm.

If lycra is so dangerous why are roadies allowed to wear it?

Gee Atherton managed to become world champ wearing a skinsuit and wearing pads

[img] [/img]

Standard UCI joke ruling banning them, in a sport which is effectively an individual TT and podiums are decided on 10ths of a second not using a skinsuit to save quite a few seconds is laughable and devalues the sport.

If lycra is so dangerous why are roadies allowed to wear it?

If being a roadie was that dangerous then they'd wear fullface helmets and armour. But they don't. Going back to the F1 comparison, that sport is constantly 'handicapped' by rules restricting technology which would allow the cars to go much faster.

It doesn't affect the (relative) results because everyone's wearing the same thing. Like it or not the image of the sport is what helps it to make money and DH and BMX take their styling cues from motocross rather than the velodrome.

If a sport is in the Olympics it should be about going as fast as humanly possible, irrespective of what you look like. They should be allowed to indulge in some lycra every four years.

One word: swimming skinsuits 😉

One of the problems with skinsuits/aero is that it's incompatible with a lot of the protective kit available.

And as soon as some people throw away the protective kit for competitive advantage, everyone ends up doing it, and that trickles down from the elite level to the knobber level.

Sure, it's partly about the look but if you look at downhill, I reckon there's an increase in people wearing protective kit at all levels, which has been partly led by the fact that pros are no longer racing in clingfilm.

That's two words surely 😉

Well I wouldn't like to be sliding down the road on my arse at the sort of speeds they do clad only in lycra

GW - Member

No it isn't

You can wear a skinsuit over a pressure suit, hard elbow pads etc and still all get the benefits, can you?

No. I couldn't 😳 but almost every elite DH racer in the world could and until a few years ago always did for world champs.

Well it will be quicker than 'baggies' (which aren't actually all that baggy anymore anyway) but make you look like:

[img] [/img]

Not from what I remember from the last of the skinsuit world champs... Kneepads but not much else.

Which was also when the suits were most developed and giving the most advantage. Or so I'm told anyway, I know bugger all about aerodynamics but supposedly the competition skin suits give a lot more aero advantage than just wearing any old lycra.

umop3pisdn - Member

Standard UCI joke ruling banning them, in a sport which is effectively an individual TT and podiums are decided on 10ths of a second not using a skinsuit to save quite a few seconds is laughable and devalues the sport.

Most of the riders didn't like wearing them either. As I said above it doesn't change results because everyone will be the same amount slower. Devalue the sport? Don't be so melodramatic.

IMO skinsuits do look silly in DH.

loum - Member
"If a sport is in the Olympics it should be about going as fast as humanly possible, irrespective of what you look like. They should be allowed to indulge in some lycra every four years."
One word: swimming skinsuits

Good point.

I take it you don't remember any further back then Northwind?

and who told you that bollox? (I take it you are referring to the Chris Porter/Mojo skin suit year?)

same as the reasons for DH:
- the sport is about image and looking cool
- clothing manufacturers want people to buy their branded clothing - they're more likely to buy baggy shorts and jerseys for wearing on and off the bike rather than skinsuits
- can you see kids wearing skinsuits down at the track?

Ive crashed on a velodrome in lycra ,now that hurts ,but I wouldnt wear anything else to ride a bike in .On or off road

Is it because no self respecting bmxer would be seen dead in lycra?

also the rubber suits that Team GB used on the track in Beijing were outlawed because they changed the body shape of the wearer.

When I was a ****less youth, I'd hammer around on my DH bike wearing jeans and a t shirt, laughing at the XC boys with their cockerels on display, the road boys with shaved legs and the old duffers on touring bikes with mudguards and (s****) frame mounted pumps.
When I was a ****less youth I didn't buy an XC bike, a road bike or a tourer because, well, they simply weren't cool. I did have a DH bike and a BMX.
These days I have no shame and get a bit of a kick giving the ladies a treat whilst fully lycrad up. Hence I now ride XC, road and touring in my bibs.
Simply put, lycra is a good way to not attract people to the sport. Why do you think they did it in DH?
Besides, everyones on a level playing field so makes no difference to the result, but probably ends up in higher BMX sales figures and thats what keeps are hobby afloat.

GW - Member

and who told you that bollox? (I take it you are referring to the Chris Porter/Mojo skin suit year?)

That was from Chris Ball.

the Mojo skinsuits were worn with armour underneath and they were actually baggy in places. The alternative lycra was not any old lycra but a roadriders skin suit. makes you wonder why is wiggo doesn't wear a baggy Mojo skinsuit in his timetrials, eh?

Mr Porter made a big deal out of his skinsuits at the time (as he has about anything new he's stumbled upon throughout his career in the mtb world). the use of a skinsuit did indeed give an advantage over mx style clothing at Ft Bill but unfortunately all the self generated "hype" surrounding them ultimately helped shoot him in the foot.

CaptainFlashheart

Now, if it's about going faster, and therefore about winning, what is more important?

"Keeping it real" and looking all of teh rad ossumnezzzzz
or
Winning

Discuss.....

If you want to look at myriad rules banning/limiting/inhibiting aero advantage for little more than aesthetics then look at road and track cycling, where, ironically, aerodynamics is an infinitely bigger factor.

GW - Member

the Mojo skinsuits were worn with armour underneath and they were actually baggy in places. The alternative lycra was not any old lycra but a roadriders skin suit.

Not quite sure why you're fixating on Mojo here tbh?

BMX in Lycra would look silly, same as show jumping in Lycra would look silly. It's not just "image", it's a recognition of the sport's roots.

Promoting the sport is a level par with "winning" in my view and therefore making everyone dress like sex pests is not a good move. What looks cooler to kids, Sam Hill wearing moto gear or Bradley Wiggins in his banana hammock?

I think its great that lycra is banned from BMX as it gives normal folk hope that a lycra free world is more than just a pipe dream.

when the suits were most developed and giving the most advantage.

I also assumed you'd know about Chris Bs relationship with Mojo

I do- but we weren't talking specifically about mojo's suits so it's not relevant.

Good rule, like above plenty of other sports don't do it so why should BMX, from the DH side there were loads of guys ditching pads and that just isn't clever. Also not long before all the kids at a regional race start wearing it.

FWIW the "baggy" stuff isnt that baggy really

* Imagines jockeys wearing the same gear that the speed skiers wear *

If a sport is in the Olympics it should be about going as fast as humanly possible, irrespective of what you look like. They should be allowed to indulge in some lycra every four years.

Guess they should legalize EPO then, or use gears, bigger wheels and suspension. **** maybe a motor as well? I mean, your going as fast as humanely possible if a human designed the engine right?

im with gary coleman on this

[img] [/img]

If its gonna go aero it needs to be tight jeans really, same as most street/trails riders wear and what we used to wear in the 80's. Aero & keeping it real.

Do all BMXers have to use the same gearing too??
Their legs are turning like road runners.. meep meep...........
and to my eyes could do with a better gear

It doesn't affect the (relative) results because everyone's wearing the same thing. Like it or not the image of the sport is what helps it to make money and DH and BMX take their styling cues from motocross rather than the velodrome.

^^ This, exactly. Rightly or wrongly, this gets people interested in the sport and sells advertising because it is considered cool:

[IMG] [/IMG]

This, not so much:

[IMG] [/IMG]

Much like DH - Why is image more important than winning?

No idea, ask this lot of posers.

[img] [/img]

DH, skinsuits and rules

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/uci-ban-skinsuits-and-open-face-helmets-for-mountain-bike-competition-19021/

Atherton wasn't happy that Moseley used a skinsuit, which being much more aerodynamic than loose clothing, would have given her an advantage.

"Fair enough to Tracy if she wants to do that to win, but for the sport and the longevity of the sport, to wear cool race kit and to make an image for yourself is more important than the odd win here and there," said Atherton

Do all BMXers have to use the same gearing too??
Their legs are turning like road runners.. meep meep...........
and to my eyes could do with a better gear

its about acceleration not top speed. sure a bigger gear down the bottom of that starthill would be cool, but coming out of a 180 berm you;d go backwards damn fast.

I think these professional athletes should be allowed to wear Lycra if they so desire, its these podgy 30/40-something IT managers that need banning.. .
Many a time I've been put off me cereal bar by the sight of a sweaty fat gentleman mincing about with undesirable bulges. . ...

Who defines what's baggy enough? Is there some kind of UCI baggometer to take a measurement?

IIRC there's a minimum amount of material you have to be able to pinch without stretching the material

SDH from several years ago called. They want their argument back.

I think they should all have to wear Gary Coleman's jumper.

I was surprised how many racers were using soft soles SPD shoes.
In a sport where power transfer is everything, surely using a stiff carbon race shoe is best? Most riders were using some form of race shoe, but some were not and probably loosing out.

The british rider, Liam was wearing fairly tight clothing (still considered baggy probably). I'd guess they have measured it and given him the tightest clothing according to the rules to maximise his chances.

Who cares if you are wearing tighter clothing if it helps you get a medal? That is what people would remember.

I think its great that lycra is banned from BMX

also the rubber suits that Team GB used on the track in Beijing were outlawed because they changed the body shape of the wearer.

Urban myth, allong with them being shredded to avoid having to submit them to the UCI. DB said he like the muths arroudn them but the reality was far more boring and they were just in a box in a store room in Manchester.

Personaly I thing baggies should stay. Why not? The dressage and horsey events wear blazers as it started with posh toffs. BMX wears MX gear as it started as a kids alternative to propper MX.

Didnt they wear skin suits in the last Olympics ?

I remember Shazene Reade getting alot of injuries on the way to the final.

In the past I've thought banning skin suits was silly, but yesterday showed even in a time trial riders will fall off.

No one is suggesting the BMX riders should wear time trials helmets are they ? Even though they would have gone faster. That bloke who fell off (nosed dived into the jump) would have had serious problems with a TT helmet.

Once you've forced the riders to wear a certain amount of armour is there much advantage from the skin suit still ?

Who cares if you are wearing [b]tighter[/b] clothing if it helps you get a medal? That is what people would remember.

Thing is, the argument isn't tight[b]er[/b] clothing, it's tight or loose. As above, there are 'pinch' rules to determine how tight to go, so everyone is the same so the end result is no net benefit against other competitors. Everyone will be working within the rules to maximise what benefit they can get so it'll all even out.

also the rubber suits that Team GB used on the track in Beijing were outlawed because they changed the body shape of the wearer.

Urban myth, allong with them being shredded to avoid having to submit them to the UCI. DB said he like the muths arroudn them but the reality was far more boring and they were just in a box in a store room in Manchester.

Boardman (BC tech director) said at a lecture in may that the suits used in sydney (iirc) had been banned and they were redesigning the lot.

jason Quelly's idea to try swimsuits in the wind tunnel apparently.

I did wonder about this myself yesterday when watching the B'mers. I could be wrong, but maybe it's because tight aero matters less compared to tire choice, line choice and whether you mess up in the whoops or at the start gate. The scientists will always say that it give 'x' amount of aero advantage - but isn't this more true in a 5 hour road race on open, flat road surfaces than in a 1 minute BMX run, where the line choice and tire grip is more important. And DH - where line choice and even the terrain varies massively on each run.
@clubber - respect to Atherton, but pissed of sports people will say lots of things when they lose.
And image is massively important in cycling. It drives the business. Why else will the average joe spend £100 on a pair of shorts? For the "technology"? Please....

Image. BMX is like downhilling. Apparently the participants are all cool and "rad". Lycra isn't . Baggies however are cool and individual. Non uniforms type stuff 😆 🙄
Complete cobblers. Re protection, you can stick armour in lycra as well so that argument is equally junk.
Image.

""BMX in Lycra would look silly, same as show jumping in Lycra would look silly. It's not just "image", it's a recognition of the sport's roots. "
He he . Origins.
Kids in tatty jeans.

I do- but we weren't talking specifically about mojo's suits so it's not relevant.

The british rider, Liam was wearing fairly tight clothing (still considered baggy probably). I'd guess they have measured it and given him the tightest clothing according to the rules to maximise his chances.

Indeed - if the rules say your clothes have to have a certain amount of bagginess, there's something to be gained from having the most aero clothing that conforms to those rules. Arguably there's actually more to be gained by the secret squirrels given such a rule than if they're all in skinsuits.

Have the rules changed since last time though? As seeing shots of Shanaze's crash being replayed, some of the clothing looks awfully tight.

Slight tangent but watching Whitfeld's crash in the triahtlon in just his lycra tri-suit made me wince!

GW - Member

"when the suits were most developed and giving the most advantage. "
hmm... *is most confused as to what "development" you refer to then*

The continuous development that took us from bog-standard skinny lycra, to the modern cycling skinsuit.

How hard would it be to make non-baggy, flexible, tough, abrasion resistant clothing without resorting to skinsuits. Not hard at all I reckon.

if its all about image, why do they ride in bloody pyjamas? surely skinny jeans and a t-shirt could be made out of "tech" fabric

They don't.
Other than Hill, almost all the top DH racers wear relatively tight fitting moto shorts and tops these days. (and even Hill's aren't all that baggy)

The continuous development that took us from bog-standard skinny lycra, to the modern cycling skinsuit.

and used from the beginning of the sport..

[img] [/img]
Tomac (almost 20 years ago) ^^

and even Tomac knew it was so wrong.......(so so wrong)

For final testing I would like to recruit some lycra wearers and some people wearing proper DH type shorts to bounce along a trail on your arse at speed. See who comes of best.

As the mens QF's showed its not all about speed in the end.

so if we get them all wearing skinsuits, they'll get round the track 1000th of a second quicker.
But it will be irelevant, because bmx, as a sport, will die on its arse, because kids wont want to ride around dressed as a gimp.