Been struggling with getting my feet bounced off the pedals when riding rougher/rutted trails for a while now. It's mostly my back foot, front stays pretty planted most of the time. I then spend the rest of the trail focusing on getting my foot back in the right spot instead of having fun!
Technique wise I am consciously trying to weight the pedals by dropping my heels but it doesn't seem to always work. I'm on a hardtail if that matters, from memory it was less of an issue when I had a FS but could still be poor technique?
Shoes are Etnies Camber Crank, the soles aren't worn or chewed up but I've had them a while, I've never had 510s or similar to compare for grip. Pedals are the same Saint MX80s I've had for years. Pins could be worn smooth over the years I guess, it does feel like I can move my foot around quite easily on them when just riding along.
I've even been thinking about trying spds again, I tried them (M520) a while ago and liked that it gave me one less thing to think about, but didn't feel very secure without a platform to stand on and I didn't like the float. But been wondering if some DMR V11s or Deity Deftraps and some grippier shoes are worth trying first?
Black soled five tens on Nukeproof Sam Hill DH and they are glued on for me. Gum coloured five tens, not quite as good
Black soled five tens on Nukeproof Sam Hill DH and they are glued on for me. Gum coloured five tens, not quite as good
Bounced off or slipped off? If bounced could be technique, slipped probably shoe / pedal interface.
Nukeproof or Spesh Bennies and Five Tens work for me. No other shoe I've tried has gripped like the Five Tens.
Did a Jedi coaching session years ago. One of the smallest, silliest things he did was rotate my brake calipers up a little to stop my feet coming off my pedals. Sounds nuts right? But it works. If your brakes are pointed down too much when you are thrown forward by a bump or sharp deceleration your wrist go into flexion and your weight goes forwards over the bars and your feet are unweighted. Brake levers rotated up more and your wrists go into extension on a hit and your body weight sinks down into the bike and your feet remain weighted. Try it - it's a game changer.
Related...only my front foot has the heel dropped. My rear foot has the heel lifted and toe dropped. I'm balanced over the bike able to push my weight forward and back and sink into the bike. I think it's something to do with modern geometry but I'm no longer 'scared' of the front wheel, pushing my arse over the rear tyre and getting myself as far as possible from the scary front end. Instead, I'm dropping into the bike with my weight much more evenly distributed with much better control of the front wheel.
I did a Jedi course years ago as well and also been running my levers with wrists dropped like that for a long time, might have been since my skills course as well thinking about it! I might just be out of practice on rougher trails, I ride a lot of smooth hardpack jump trails but today's trails were a bit more rutted and rooty which knocked my feet about a lot more than I'm used to.
When I've seen video of me riding from coaching sessions generally my front heel is nice and dipped but rear heel/foot is generally flatter I assume just because of the difference in leg extension you can't really drop the rear heel as much (or I'm just not very flexible!).
I'd say I'm almost too connected on 5:10 Trailcross and DMR V12 pedals, certainly can't rotate my foot at all when it's on there or slide it forwards/backwards I consciously have to lift off and re-position. I did have some of those same Saint pedals and didn't feel anywhere near as secure on them, I definitely feel more locked into the DMR's with the more concave shape and that applies to the cheaper V8's and nylon bodied ones too.
100 percent it's technique.
And it's not as simple as just heels down. That's rubbish advice. Your entire body holds your feet in place. Any decent dirt jumper or BMXer will almost never lose their feet. No matter what pedals or shoes. And even if they do. They'll be straight back on from muscle memory alone.
100 percent it's technique.
And it's not as simple as just heels down. That's rubbish advice. Your entire body holds your feet in place. Any decent dirt jumper or BMXer will almost never lose their feet. No matter what pedals or shoes. And even if they do. They'll be straight back on from muscle memory alone.
What's the non-rubbish advice then?
I'm not losing my pedals on jumps or smooth trails, it's just the rougher stuff where I think they either get kicked off or slip.
My wife had this problem years ago, no matter how hard she tried her feet just got bounced off on really rough stuff. We put it down to her being 30kg lighter than me. She switched to SPDs and never had a problem again. It’s one of the reason that some of the Pro die-hard flat shoe Kiwis switched to clipless in the past.
if you mainly ride dirt jumps/smooth trails it will be harder on the odd occasion you ride rough stuff - the solution is to ride rough stuff more and get used to it!
if they are really old/smooth then new pedal pins would be my starter - just a few quid from teh local bolt store. Will make a big difference to 'bite' on the shoe.
Shoes i wouldnt bother to upgrade - I really liked my etnies cambers but managed to lose 1 of them somewhere - i was very confused/gutted!!
What's the non-rubbish advice then?
Don't just stand on your pedals, weight alone does not work. You need pressure.
Drop your leading heel. Raise the trailing one, so your feet are in a "V", and keep your weight between your feet. Use the "V" to exert outward (fore/aft) pressure with your feet onto the pedals. This generates mechanical grip. Loads of grip.
If you rock climb, it's kind of like an egyptian, or footwork on a steep overhang.
For example, when you claw, or scoop, with your trailing foot (not as dramatic as that but best way I can describe it) I can lift and place the rear wheel just with my legs/hips, no upper body input. As can my 30odd kilo son.
if you mainly ride dirt jumps/smooth trails it will be harder on the odd occasion you ride rough stuff - the solution is to ride rough stuff more and get used to it!
Yeah definitely, I've been quite lazy for a while and mostly just ridden local stuff which is groomed hard pack surfaced bike park style trails (Northampton and Leamington), but after this weekends ride on the Woburn backwoods trails I definitely want to do more of that again. Bit more natural singletrack style. They're still not "gnar" by most people's standards but definitely rougher and rootier in places than anything I've ridden recently. What's odd is I've been riding for years and always on flats but just seen to be struggling with this more recently, could just be out of practice though.
@diggery yeah that makes sense, I'll try that rather than dropping both heels.
Its wrist position but mostly having the pedal axel beh8nd the ball of your foot.that way your feet can go into flexion without jumping off tje pedals. Wtf is tje v position pmsl
The position
/angle of your feet is irrelevant, just keep relaxed ankles to allow flexion
Think I usually ride roughly with the ball of my foot in the concave of the pedal, will also try that then! Going to take a bit of getting used to having the pedal further back on my foot 🙂
Think I usually ride roughly with the ball of my foot in the concave of the pedal, will also try that then! Going to take a bit of getting used to having the pedal further back on my foot 🙂
You've just told us your problem right there. Arch of the foot on flats, end of 😉
I'd say I'm almost too connected on 5:10 Trailcross and DMR V12 pedals, certainly can't rotate my foot at all when it's on there or slide it forwards/backwards I consciously have to lift off and re-position.
I spent most of last year riding flats and got the hang of it fairly quickly... however I went back to spds because I need the float for my knees. I was locked in too tight with flats and any kind of twist really flared up my knee ligaments that were injured decades ago.
I tried many shoes, big pedal pins and dropping the heels but it would keep happening, when clipless years ago and never looked back!
I've even been thinking about trying spds again, I tried them (M520) a while ago and liked that it gave me one less thing to think about, but didn't feel very secure without a platform to stand on
Try something with a platform around the clips, personally I use Crank Brothers mallet dh on all bikes but they do require regular maintenance and the cleats are brass so don't last long compared to shimano. There's plenty of choice these days with most brands being compatible with Shimano cleats
Well i never... been on flats the last 15 years and i never new about the foot arch over the axle thing. I've always keep my feet with the ball of the foot in the concave, mostly cos it just feels right.
So do you arch/axle riders keep your feet in the same place or just adopt the position for descending?
Wtf is tje v position pmsl
Its a common technique on all the plethora of youtube "how to" videos. The idea is to drop front heel and drop back toes so that you push down and out and centre your weight over the BB.
So…..im not disputing that technique might be the biggest issue. And I definitely do advocate putting the middle of your foot on the pedals when on rough stuff (rather than the ball of your foot - which leads to a much less secure connection imo). However, having said all of that, there is a world of difference in the way my Five Tens ‘stick’ my feet to the pedals vs any other shoe I’ve tried.
so while I think looking at technique is a good idea (although many of us would need to follow the same advice imo), I think a fair of Five Tens would also be my recommendation.
Well i never... been on flats the last 15 years and i never new about the foot arch over the axle thing. I've always keep my feet with the ball of the foot in the concave, mostly cos it just feels right.
Yeah exactly, I've ridden flat pedals my whole life starting with BMX as a teenager and feels like I've always naturally gone for that foot position. I will try changing it though and see how I get on, as we all know Tony is the best when it comes to bike technique!
Quite nice to know I don't need to rush out and spend more money actually, at least technique is free 🙂
Blackflag, do you have small feet out of interest
I think a lot of the pointers people give are actually end results of better technique or cues that promote better technique. Thinking about dropping your heels tends to put your weight and pressure in a better place, that V thing naturally happens a lot of the time (but if you force it you’ll be way too stiff).
I’ve only ever ridden flats, with 5.10’s for at least a decade (and Vaults since they came out!) Lots of time with flats on hardtails too. As well as the dropping wrists and heels cues, I focus on actively riding over the rough, so staying loose by consciously pumping, hopping, weighting, unweighting. I try to avoid just holding on and hoping, although sometimes you do just have to sink your feet in, look up and stay loose until you get something you can engage with.
I like it though, I really like those moments of taking a hardtail on flats through silly rough stuff like Rim Dinger or Deep Navigation at BPW. If you’re used to flow trails with bigger jumps that’s such a different thing to riding trails where the (not) little (enough) ground details are trying to kick your feet off!
If you’re used to flow trails with bigger jumps that’s such a different thing to riding trails where the (not) little (enough) ground details are trying to kick your feet off!
My first ride somewhere "different" for quite a while was Wharncliffe a few months ago, it was fun but definitely a shock to the system, I'm not used to rocks at all! Tbh I don't find rocky trails that enjoyable even on a FS, I'll take roots (preferably dry) any day over sharp edged rocks! But yeah even roots are a bit of a change from the oversized pump tracks I've got used to riding 🙂
I've ridden my HT down proper rough DH trails and it's not always as fun as people would have you believe! I mean I did laugh, but out of sheer terror and **** me I've got away with it. Often with a foot clinging onto the edge of a pedal, the next impact being the one that could finish me off! Sometimes when the back wheel is pin-balling all over the place (it's successive unavoidable big hits that do it), you are hard pressed to keep your feet on, no matter how good your technique.
If you wish to persist in the masochism, clipped in is the way to go. Even better just ride trails where a HT shines and FS where it doesn't!
I've ridden my HT down proper rough DH trails and it's not always as fun as people would have you believe! I mean I did laugh, but out of sheer terror and **** me I've got away with it. Often with a foot clinging onto the edge of a pedal, the next impact being the one that could finish me off! Sometimes when the back wheel is pin-balling all over the place (it's successive unavoidable big hits that do it), you are hard pressed to keep your feet on, no matter how good your technique.
If you wish to persist in the masochism, clipped in is the way to go. Even better just ride trails where a HT shines and FS where it doesn't!
Yeah, not ridden proper tough DH, but still - I have CB Mallets on my HT and flats on everything else
I have a tension between my feet and hands, like the chord of an bow where you are the bow and the bike is the chord, that guy in the vid is visibly doing it. It doesn't need much to keep the bike with you.
I use 5:10s and a variety of pedals, the grippiest are some old Shimano DX with small diametre pins, lethal on the shins mind.
When i started on clipless, the biggest revelation to me was on my hardtail on a flat-ish section, covered in root beds,
flat technique was pretty much just roll through, weight slightly back, no idea what my feet were doing to stay stuck
clipped technique was drop the seat slightly and just pedal through, if the back wheel was airborn it didn't really matter, hilariously different and obviously quicker. It also seemed possible to weight shift while pedalling a lot easier
So, yes. my answer is clipless.. decent platform clipless pedals.. about the only time i find clipless a bit daunting is super steep stuff were i may need to foot out, but gravity is on side so no real pedalling, i'm not going fast so typically re position a foot just off the clip
big jumps etc aren't on my radar so being able to bail isn't really an issue, and who cares about "bad technique" when all i want to do is ride my bike
TLDR spend some time on clips for S&G's
With your feet if you have front foot slight heel down and rear foot slight toe down try pushing your feet into the pedal - i.e. push forward with front foot and backwards with rear foot - doesn't have to be a lot of weight/effort - just enough to keep pressure on.
This will slightly shift your weight more central, keep even weight through both pedals and also take a bit of weight off your hands.
Any position adjustment then for features is knees, hips & elbows.
Other suggestion is look at cockpit set up - are your bars rolled excessively forward etc.
Blackflag, do you have small feet out of interest
What are you suggesting here? 😉
A pretty normal (i think?) size 9.