[Closed] Looks like Dusk til Dawn is going to be a bit moist again.

Crazy-legs - agreed. Still makes me cross though especially when I go to such lengths tonsay thank you, tonwait behind people and to encourage where I can. Wearing bright green kit covered in chillies it's not as if I'm hard to identify so why would I try to spread a negative image of the brand I ride for.

Agree. Put your feet up, heal quick, it could have happened at a far worse time.

I'm stunned you'd say you wouldn't expect riders to stop and help in the event of a serious crash - fair enough at World Cup level or above but for the 99.99% of us who do this as a hobby not stopping to help is outrageous. And I'm not a nonce 😉

Sadly as I can't ride I've got nothing better to do than sit on here having arguments with strangers. Can we keep disagreeing for a bit to give me something to do?

*Goes off to sell all my Salsa bikes and products as they'e assosiated with moaners* 😉

Gee, get well soon. Hope the nurses are helping you feel better. Ashley Green.

Being an XC Jeyboy I prefer the male nurses, obviously.

Wearing bright green kit covered in chillies

Saw ya ! & you were a right t...........actually you were very polite & gave plenty of room...

why would I try to spread a negative image of the brand I ride for.

the mere fact that your 29er wheels failed to do what they're supposed to, and roll over a stump so small that it was invisible, has already done that. If i wanted to crash into stumps i could do that better on a halfords shopper 😉

Haha Jon that made me laugh. Which hurt. A great advert for Exposure lights too then, I suppose.

GB

I suspect the real reason you missed it will have been the shadow being cast by the 30ltr rucksack that we weekend heroes insist on carrying for our single lap stint. We will be out there for over an hour so we may well need full waterproofs, a mobile toolkit, half a box of energy gels and 3 litres of snake oil.

Sorry to hear about the off Gee, easily done. I managed to collect a stump at the bottom of the shocker on my last lap without the aid of trying to pass anyone. If anyone here is the lovely chap or lady that stopped to lend me a multi tool to fix my rear brake at the end of the shocker then thank you! I owe you one!.

I am still finding mud in every part of my anatomy althought it was worth it for that top podium spot and a free Exposure Joystick 😉

I did see someone riding round with one of those respro humps over his camelbak. No excuses for colliding with him while overtaking I suppose.

You realise all of this is a ruse and I'm actually fine, I just needed a manly excuse to explain my not wanting to ride in the crap for another 7 hours.

That's a joke by the way. You know, it's amazing how irritating it is only having one arm. It's made me in awe of people who have this permanently. When I got home my wife said 'think yourself lucky, you could have died'. That had me in stitches - it was only a tumble - but I sort of know what she means. Perspective and all that.

GB

Does kind of ease the pain a bit doesn't it?

Get well soon Gee.
It's amazing the number of people who have broken collar bones or had serious injuries at Thetford, when considering all of places mountain bikers ride Thetford is not technical but just goes to show.

I was sat in the back of the van joking to my mate that 'this is just like last year' at 6.30pm watching the drizzle coming down and then at 2.30am saying goodbye to drive home, 'just like last year'!!!

Get well soon Gee, I recall a Salsa rider flying past me quite safely which I assume was you.

Another guy passing me got his left / right mixed up - which I guessed and did not move position, he apologised as he went past. Just tiredness really. I have to say I thought all the fast guys passed very safely and well. A guy from Giant, foreign accent, particularly friendly - and fast!

Hey Kev,you're still alive then ! missed you this morning,what time did you leave ?

Well in a strange kind of way i enjoyed it, every lap was a challenge, and i just got on with it, gee sorry to hear about your injury, i was having a sneaky pee in the trees when the quads went out, and thought it was the rozzers1

I have to say, everyone i passed got a nice cheery "good luck" as i went by, and i tried to pick my overtakes as best i could, my biggest fright came on my 1st lap, after the home turn, where i came across 3 solo riders having a chat in the middle of the trail, cant say i blame them, its not a bad place to stop.....

Sorry Blackhound, sounds like me, yeah the wee hours got a bit long. We rode to the end (team of 4 so easy life), there were some proper solo heroes out there. Nowhere near as bad as last year, but the sun at 9am took the piss!

Seemed a good humoured event from what we saw, always is. Good luck with the arm Gee.

+1 to the September date

Keep it in October, the weather can be pants at any time of year. How many dry Mayhems have we had in the last decade and that's the closest weekend to midsummer's day.

I rode 5 laps in a pairs entry and thought it was ok until about 2am, squirmy but with a good line to find through most places. After that it was just piggin hard work, although even as wet as it got the Double Shocker continued to put a smile on my face and help me forget the aching legs.

Was passed by you and Andy a couple of times appropriatley.

Its a race. A couple of times later in the race i was passed by riders who correctly gave a rider left/right but i skidded in the gloop and i ended up on one occasion tucking my back wheel into his front. Rider was very accepting Its a race he was passing and accepted the force error i made.

This is the norm. Personally i dont post a complaint less i feel its totally clear and then only after forming the commisaire. Its the right procedure. Race issues you describe are not easy to clearly define. It was a hard race in Grim conditions where decisions were made also in grim conditions. Some would be good some would not work out (like my eg).

I do think passes have responsibility to ensure the passed are safe but i Saw no evidence of riders not executing this 'rule' at. D2D.

I enjoyed the race.

A lot of the riders out there by 9 pm were clearly out of their depth. I was passed by Gee during the night - no issues.

As has been said trying to stay left or right was a challenge in itself!

I was passed a huge number of times last night and ther were no real dramas, I kept the line on occasions when there was nowhere else to go and got no earache for that but as soon as I could make room I did, tbh, racing at night made it a little easier as you often had pretty bright clues as to where the passing rider was!

Get fit soon Gee (all your passes on me were fine) and lastly heartfelt thanks to the white wheeled (amazed I could tell!) soloist who gave me the gel that got me up the mower trail on the last lap, it was a hell of a night.

Oh yes and thanks to the guy who left his tube and associated litter on the trail just after Tom's pit, I wish I'd taken more notice of who you were when I saw you fixing it now!!

Did anyone else notice the huge number of frogs on the course?!

Did anyone else notice the huge number of frogs on the course?!

I picked up a _huge_ beastie and carried it off the course towards the end, just near the silly hump in the red route before the road. I felt I needed to do something useful. I hope it didn't get squashed.

Still amazed by Mr Cockburn's result.

EDIT: and what was going on with all the gel discarding? Was it raining empty gel wrappers as well?

Second D2D for me, this time in a triple. My 1st lap was by my standards and hopes, pretty quick and I foolishly thought the course might hold up in the rain.

Dunno the trail names but somewhere around the 5 mile mark was a git of a singletrack slitherfest and I had a few stall offs. - Clearly Panaracer Razers don't do mud! Did finally manage to negotiate this on my final lap safely with Mud X shoes.

I passed quite a few people but being a roadie I can't do this wavy stuff so was happy to sit in until I was absolutely certain I could get by without sticking it into the scenery and thereby taking someone else out.

I can't understand why people can't make the effort to say thank you or ask if someone is OK? How hard can that be??

Apologies to all who had to put up with listening to my graunching chain and discs. Even early on in the first lap I appeared to be the only rider in Norfolk whose bike had decided to take exception to the weather.

Finally, the best purchase of the month? £280 on a decent pop up gazebo. Twas a goodsend having a spacious space to stay in. I suspect the three of us may have packed early on if we'd only had a small tent and cars to stay in.

For goodness sake with the arguing about passing. Crashing and hurting yourself shows it was not safe. You thought it was but you misjudged it.

You are not racing for millions here - just calm down a bit.

hopefully the injuries will heal and you will be racing again soon.

the overtaking debate is an interesting one. Slower novice riders do find fast riders who overtake "assertively" very intimidating and it can make for a poor first race experience which means they don't come back.

IME it can be so bad that the rider in front virtually freezes when bellowed at by rider behind "race leader on your L/R" when they are 20yd's off, the novice then panics when he doesnt have anywhere to go due to the limitations of the trail

'leader coming through on your right?'

Yes that sounds like me.

I'd like to know how I was too close to you -

the other riders perception is valid,

You clearly have a skewed opinion as to what is 'close'.

Those that know me will know I always say thank you when passing

theotherjonv - Member
My point still stands, it's not Gee's opinion that counts, if the other rider feels it was too close then that is at least an equally valid opinion, if not more valid. Maybe different in a WC or Elite race, but in an open field race, having these fast guys thunder past novice riders in the dark and wet can be a very disconcerting experience.

of course I'm most likely a fat IT professional who drives more miles to the LBS than he rides and haven't got any experience of events or the experiences of novice riders (not that I'm a novice being a fully padded up gnarrcore rider) so you can ignore me.

Just as the arguing died down, in wades TJ.

I wasn't there, I have no idea what happened. It sounds like gee went off the main path which shows he was giving the person being passed some room but other than that I'm not going to comment on the incident itself.

But ignoring a rider down, for whatever reason, unless there's a marshall post next to them is a shitty thing to do, even if you feel a bit pissed off.

Could you not have just stayed for a gloat and to see if he needed help, at least?

That was a hard race. I managed 5 laps on my geared bike before the drivetrain imploded, I couldn't fix it, so had to jog back to the solo tent and pick up my singlespeed. In a way I was glad to switch bikes as I was using Rocket Rons on the geared bike and they were reaching the edge of their grip by then. The singlespeed was set up with mud tyres which made a massive difference. I completed another 5 laps on the singlespeed, by the end I had switched to a 34:20 ratio as my legs had nothing left. The part between the 9 and 10 mile marker seemed to go on for ever and ever.

Thanks to the guys (I think you all had skulls on your helmets) in the solo tent who helped me swap over bikes in the middle of the night, you had gone by the morning so couldn't say thank you. You were a big help.

Sorry to the girl who pointed out I had got my left and right mixed up. I had no idea what was going on by that stage...

Overtaking was difficult for the first few laps. There seemed to be a bigger mix of rider abilty than I remeber from previous years, which did cause some slow trains of riders in the singletrack as backmarkers were caught up. This got easier later as more obvious overtaking lines appeared in the singletrack.

Gee, hope you make a speedy recovery. You passed me on your last lap at the exit to the Flint Pit section, you didn't seemed to be going at your normal speedy pace as I kept you in my sights for five minutes or so. Now I know you were injured it doesn't make me feel quite so fast!

During the rider briefing an explanation was given of the passing etiquette in MTB XC races, that is that it’s the responsibility of the passing rider to find a place to pass in a safe fashion, however it is the norm that a slower rider will give way and move over when reasonably asked to do so by a faster rider. A point was also made of the hazards of going offline albeit not in regard to the specific area where this incident happened.

It is unfortunate in mass participation events that there are a broad spectrum of abilities which can lead to misunderstandings of this nature. In essence one mans safe and plenty of room is another’s near miss. I don’t believe there is any suggestion of contact being made in this manoeuvre, and if that is the case and knowing the area where it happened I would not have any issue with the attempt.

As it happens I do know Gee, not personally, but in another capacity. He is definitely one of the more gentlemanly elite riders albeit few of them are anything other than polite and civil on or off the course.

For those not familiar with the thorough organisation and course preparation at Thetford, the course is cleared to 1 metre either side of the line wherever possible, as indeed it was in the area where this incident occurred. However, especially in wet conditions it is completely possible for obstacles to be unearthed or thrown up by the passage of a race, which I suspect, may have been the case here.

Overall given the conditions, the event went off in a fantastically good humoured and fun atmosphere, and to be honest I don’t think this thread is doing it justice. Apart from a few minor complaints in respect of people transitioning outside of the designated area there were no real issues at all.

In respect of the event timing and the weather. In 11 years there have only been 3 wet races, so with a dry success rate of 73% it doesn’t seem too sensible to change the date to me.

Gee, hope you mend rapidly.

You do realise that your Ti el mariachi will now be cursed by the midnight stump pixies and continue to steer into obstructions until you donate it to another rider.

As a gesture of good will i'll take it off your hands just to keep you safe. Hows that for altruism. 😀

A chap in Salsa kit flew passed me a couple of times through the night and gave plenty of warning and also some thanks. Not that i would have cared if he hadnt, it was a race after all 😉 No. 250? something iirc.

My chain snapped just into the first bit of singletrack after the start, on one of my laps. Cheers to everyone who asked if i was ok as i was repairing it.

I can also confirm there were a large number of frogs on course!

Well done to the organisers although I'd like to suggest that in future registration should be kept open a little later. After closing my shop early and catching a bit of traffic driving up from Southampton to arrive just before 7 we were told quite gruffly that we should have been there earlier and may not be able to race.

Thanks to the guys (I think you all had skulls on your helmets) in the solo tent who helped me swap over bikes in the middle of the night, you had gone by the morning so couldn't say thank you. You were a big help.

Glad to help out, (one of the guys with the skulls on our helmets) I think we were just impressed you were so keen to get back out!

My first 12 hour race (although I didn't last 12 hours!) was a real shame about the weather as the first two laps were just awesome fun! Hope it doesn't put people of next year, as its still a great event and I'm going back to try and hit the 100 mile mark.

On the overtaking thing, I over took a few people, on the whole giving plenty of room, however have to admit I was too close on one occasion having miss-judged/ slipped during over taking, did appoogise so hope I did'nt anoy the person too much! So if you were over taken badly by someone with a flashing skull on thier helmet, appologies again!

In respect of the event timing and the weather. In 11 years there have only been 3 wet races, so with a dry success rate of 73% it doesn’t seem too sensible to change the date to me.

Blimey. It must be my fault then??

I've done 4 now (2008 - 2011) and only one of them has been dry (2009), so that mean that the 3 wet races you mention above have all been since I decided to start doing the D2D.

You'll be pleased to hear I don't think I am gonna bother next year, so it will undoubtedly be dry in the run up to the event with some rain a few days before to dampen the dust down.

we were told quite gruffly that we should have been there earlier and may not be able to race.

[url= http://www.thetfordmtbracing.com/d2dentry.htm ]So they bent the very obvious and clearly stated rules to accomodate you and you are moaning about it?[/url]

There is quite a lot of admin to do before the race starts. You can't keep it open indefinately.

Obviously some people have never heard of the 5P's BB!

This was my first ever D2D and in fact my first ever race. I was part of a slow 4 man team which managed a result!

It rained. All night. A lot. In fact it didn't stop until 5 minutes after we'd packed up to go home! The rain was the sort that could soak the inside of a sealed glass jar!

There were many frogs. There was mud and I don't think my bike will ever trust me again!

I was overtaken a lot and didn't think anyone was dangerous. If I stopped to clear my drive train, or pretend to fix something so I could have a rest, every rider that passed asked if I was okay.

The funniest part of the race was at the transition area. My god, there were a lot of adrenalin fueled people shouting for team mates as they arrived at the pen. Your team mate probably has eyes and can see you coming! However, I felt really sorry for the guy shouting for his absent team mate. It put me in mind of a duckling that had lost his mother! 🙂

However the prize goes to the chap who took the wrist band from his incoming team mate, turned to face the way out and screamed something like "RIDER COMING THOUGH" at the top of his voice and charged like a fully psyched up berserker though the other waiting riders. I had to laugh when the bloke next to me said "but he's not even on his bike yet".

I had fun and will give it a go next year. However, it it rains again like it did this time I may have to reconsider!! 😀

Oh, and I forgot to pass on this piece of mathematical wisdom from one of my team mates:

As Einstein correctly observed during a similar event in 1912:

E = M x C-squared

Effort = Mud x Claggymud-squared

However the prize goes to the chap who took the wrist band from his incoming team mate, turned to face the way out and screamed something like "RIDER COMING THOUGH" at the top of his voice and charged like a fully psyched up berserker though the other waiting riders. I had to laugh when the bloke next to me said "but he's not even on his bike yet"

Berm Bandit - are you involved in the organisation of the event or have connections to those who do ?

Just wondering....

Obviously some people have never heard of the 5P's BB!

Perhaps we should add a sixth P, punctuality.
I was late, someone was grumpy. Everything else about the event was great so in the interests of forum harmony shall we call it evens?

Seb,

I have to say it cheered me up immensly at that dark stage of the night! 😀

are you involved in the organisation of the event or have connections to those who do?

errrr might be 😳

I fully understand that individually some of these things seem like huge issues, but standing where I do you do get a unique insight into the huge amount of effort that all the people involved in putting these things on invest into what they are doing. It’s a common phenomenon that the Monday morning inbox is devastating for organisers. The complaints often overwhelm the compliments and it really does you in.

Personally I like to try to counter that by pointing out the alternative view, which is usually that the folk concerned are trying really hard to deliver a great event, have been working non stop for hours on hours and generally are completely exhausted by the time the event starts. Without them we have no events, so respect is very definitely due especially when they do help you out IMHO.