What a shame! Beginners can always get off and walk , we all need something to aspire to.
I believe that this issue was a part of the falling out between the trailbuilders and the FC at Carron valley. Research by the FC showed that blue trails get far more riders than reds and blacks - far far more and the FC wanted to attract more folk and not just cater to the hard core of experienced riders - so this makes sense. Have blue graded trails for all as a base then add reds / blacks in later as funding allows.
Remember the gnarly riders that inhabit STW are a minority
Research by the FC showed that blue trails get far more riders than reds and blacks
Really?
Anytime I've done the blue at Glentress, other than the shared sections with the red/black, I've always been the only person on it. Obviously not the only person, but I've never met anyone on it at all.
strange.
And the word is they're dumbing down CV because of potential legal action when folk fall off rather than any attempt to attract new riders.
😆 🙄Remember the gnarly riders that inhabit STW
I think more blue routes is good. But to demolish a decent techy bit on a red is rubbish.
Boarding bob - so I believe from people who know about these things.
Quick Question... How can it all be blue if the last run back to the carpark is full of berms and doubles ?
Caledonia - because they are (probably) removing all of the doubles.
I just stuck this map together (Google maps is actually really good for this!) to show how important CV could be:
[url= http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2780/4110060894_7ffb192090_m.jp g" target="_blank">
Its the only trail center really all that close to the central population belt and is the closest to Glasgow...
Actually the strathpuffer trails are missing. Although they would just add to my point 😉
Yeah, but that's an argument for more trails at Carron (or elsewhere in the central belt) not for keeping Carron as a red (or for that matter for changing it to blue). But there are reasons that trail centres tend to be built a wee bit off the beaten track- one justification is always to bring visitors into the area.
dmiller - don't discount [url= http://www.comriecroftbikes.co.uk/ ]Comrie Croft[/url], just west of Crieff. Some good [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-hairy-coo-xc-race-video ]video here[/url] too.
It's a bit daft but it's not like it was the most exciting feature in the world anyway - I had heard people going on about how scary it was but when I rode it I had to look at the map afterwards to make sure I'd done it. Some of that gravel will wash away before too long as well. I agree with Northwind really.
Hope they don't wreck all the jumps though, I found that section quite fun, though they were a bit short.
Yeah, but that's an argument for more trails at Carron (or elsewhere in the central belt) not for keeping Carron as a red (or for that matter for changing it to blue).
I think I am being rubbish at explaining myself - I want more trails at CV - I want a blue (and maybe a black, although the blue would be more important!) trail built. I just didn't want it at the expense of the red trail 🙁
dmiller - don't discount Comrie Croft, just west of Crieff. Some good video here too.
Cheers Rob!
David.
[i]Quick Question... How can it all be blue if the last run back to the carpark is full of berms and doubles [/i]
they are tame ones, can all be rolled. Rest of the trail is blue IMO, its a nice ride, not knocking it but it is a decent blue ride.
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I was dreading what they where going to do to the place.. lest hope they don't sanitise the jumpy section
I can ride my roadbike there now... 👿
I was dreading what they where going to do to the place.. lest hope they don't sanitise the jumpy section
I suspect they will 🙁
I've ridden at Carron Valley many times I'd just like to say a big thanks to the original trail builders. I've never met any of them, but have read everything on their website and NO ONE could dispute that the FC treated them appallingly. There must be lot's of other people who also appreciate all the work that they did as well.
It's ridiculous that they've destroyed Kelpies, and still seen fit to waste money on 2 chicken runs. It's equally ridiculous to think that there are no proper trail centres in the central belt, what's that all about? It has the highest population in Scotland and loads of areas that could be used (like CV).
Yes Scotland has lots of great natural and man made trails, but surely there's enough bikers to justify a good trail centre closer to Glasgow/Edinburgh!
Yes Scotland has lots of great natural and man made trails, but surely there's enough bikers to justify a good trail centre closer to Glasgow/Edinburgh!
Indeed - its not like we are short of hills either with the Campsies and the Ochils...
Although the above link to [url= http://www.comriecroftbikes.co.uk/index.php?id=20 ]Comrie Croft[/url] looks interesting:
Following a brief downhill respite, the singletrack begins and winds its way up through some technical forest sections with some interesting features, check out the chunky bedrock slab with off camber descent, and the water splash. A little more climbing takes you to the descent, which is a thrilling mix of tight twisty singletrack and natural bedrock. On the way down you’ll also encounter a little fun park in a disused quarry and a great variety of surfaces and riding styles.Not a course to be ridden at top speed, the emphasis is more on the technical and challenging aspects of riding and after an hour you’ll be back in the car park with a big grin on your face and a healthy notion to go and do it all again!
Sounds fun!
Do a wee search on it up above, David - good course, quite tech but not much in the way of facilities. I'm unsure if it's open all year (hope so, want to go again before new year)
There's also a fair bit to be had at Aberfoyle I believe, haven't ridden there myself though (marshalled at a wet round of the Scottish XC, & they seemed to find plenty of variation!)
IIRC another part of the issue is funding streams. Some of the money comes from regional development funds - so the central belt does not qualify. Some of it comes from believe it or not health promotion budgets - but that is aimed at trails for all not for the expert elite.
Jeezo chaps - we have one of the best if not the best MTB set ups in the world in Scotland and its still not good enough for you.
I don't know the whole story of Carron Valley but from what I do know there were two issues - the aims of the FC and the trailbuilders was different ( inclusive for all or red routes) and there were personality clashes.
Building trail centres is expensive and where does the money come from? Not the riders directly on the whole.
Compare the provision in Scotland to England or NI and stop moaning
TandemJeremy - I would agree with most of your points, but why not have more MTB near Glasgow and Edinburgh then? if you wanted to make a change to health then you would build it where people can get to it.
I'm not saying make CV super hard, just please develop it more, not spoil whats there!
I just don't get why the 7 stanes gets so much budget spent so close together. There seems to be a disproportionate amount spent in the Dumfries and Galloway area to me - spend some of that cash up in the Glasgow/Edinburgh/Perth area instead?
I seem to remember someone telling me, and I don't know how accurate this is, that Glentress gets the majority of the footfall (as you would expect), then CV, then the rest of the 7 stanes together, then all the other trail centers. CV or somewhere nearby would be ideal for development!
Also as to England / NI - there are many reasons I am lucky to live in Scotland. MTB centers is one, right to roam is another, the sunny weather a third 😉
"There seems to be a disproportionate amount spent in the Dumfries and Galloway area to me - spend some of that cash up in the Glasgow/Edinburgh/Perth area instead!"
Well said!
dmiller - MemberI just don't get why the 7 stanes gets so much budget spent so close together. There seems to be a disproportionate amount spent in the Dumfries and Galloway area to me - spend some of that cash up in the Glasgow/Edinburgh/Perth area instead?
Wasn't a lot of the initial investment to help recover from the impact of Foot & Mouth? And does the likes of Edinburgh need more tourism income?
Sustrans routes? Callender to Killin for example and there is a trail being sorted along the forth IIRC. Not for gnarlmeisters like you all but all about encouraging cycling for health promotion
I dunno for sure but the central belt does not get the regional development funds which I think was the biggest part of the funding
(There seems to be a disproportionate amount spent in the Dumfries and Galloway area to me - spend some of that cash up in the Glasgow/Edinburgh/Perth area instead?)
The reason is D/G needs investment because of its poor economy and the stanes were introduced directly as a consequence of the impact of foot and mouth on tourism. As a galloway boy I think we deserve investment you compare the ecomomy of Perthshire and that of Wigtonshire and the oppertunities for employment in the central belt with those in rural Galloway no Common Wealth games money comming our way
There's also a fair bit to be had at Aberfoyle I believe
I found a couple of really nice little purpose built singletrack descents in the QE Forest Park behind the David Marshall Lodge - very short though. I wondered if there was other stuff around there.
As someone that lives in Glasgow but has family ties in Dumfries, I do feel that the central belt is in much need of a trail centre, yea we do have some good natural stuff here, but most if it gets too wet and boggy, (or maybe I'm not looking in the correct places) so it's a 1.1/2 - 2 hr drive south for me, I'm lucky because i have a car and family down there, two Bird's one stone...
"There seems to be a disproportionate amount spent in the Dumfries and Galloway area to me - spend some of that cash up in the Glasgow/Edinburgh/Perth area instead!"
I'm not so sure about that. when you consider the close proximity of the border, as a frequent visitor to 4 of the trail centre in D&G most riders and groups I meet come from south of the border, it's few and far between when I meet locals, D&G has a very good catchment area for the central belt and northern england....
but what about those who don't own a car ?? what ? get a train to dumfries-2hrs then a bus or taxi to dalbettie another 1hr, do the trail then somehow get a bus back to dumfries then a 2hr train journey.. so your looking at around 6 hrs travel.... who's up for that ?? na... Ill just stick to getting bogin around mugdock....
surly there must be a good argument for a descent trail centre closer to the two major city's in the country.... and can someone explain to me why there isn't
Kelpies was pants to begin with, and it looks even more pathetic now.
And as for the runway, they couldn't possibly make it any worse, those were the shortest jumps in the world. The jumps at Learnie (iir my trail centres correctly) were epic and i can only hope that they've been copied!
some of the descents on CV were good fun if you really blasted down them although it didn't pay to overcook anything thanks to the logs that had been placed at the edge of the trail (i know they were to stop people cutting corners but rocks are sooo much grippier).
And why re-grade it as a blue? it's a right pig to get to either from Denny or Stirling as the roads are probably more technical than the trail and last time i was there there wasn't much in the way of facilities beyond the car park. NOt the sort of roads you'd want more cars on.
I did have a magical evening/ night ride when snow was falling once, looked as though everything was covered in diamonds and the ice crystals in the air sparkled beautifully.
I'd far rather go to Pitmedden and park at the Glen Tarkie car park as the descent back to the car is so much fun. plus there's all sort of singletrack there, if you don't fancy it you can always ride the fire roads instead.
craig1975 - Memberbut what about those who don't own a car ?? what ? get a train to dumfries-2hrs then a bus or taxi to dalbettie another 1hr, do the trail then somehow get a bus back to dumfries then a 2hr train journey.. so your looking at around 6 hrs travel.... who's up for that ?? na... Ill just stick to getting bogin around mugdock....
Buying and riding a mountain bike is not some sort of inalienable right, nor is it yet provided by social services. If you don't have a car and you want to cycle, how about buying a road bike?
[i]I don't know the whole story of Carron Valley but from what I do know there were two issues - the aims of the FC and the trailbuilders was different ( inclusive for all or red routes) and there were personality clashes.[/i]
Maybe it'd be better if you didn't trot out your usual nonsense on it then?
Tandemjeremy, sorry mate but everything you have typed about CV is pure mince...the plans that were agreed back in 06 had plenty of trails for beginners, families and intermediary riders - the only trails not on the map were Black - the FC didn't want anything developed there, it was by sheer hard work and the FC getting themselves into a corner that the trails that were built got built. At the time the FC didn't want any trails built, we got close to agreeing a Green trail - got it flagged out and surveyed and then the FC decided to change it all and no include the green bike trail...so yes, we totally believed in the requirement to build trails for all levels and the plans included that...but it just wasn't to be...
Funding streams - do you work for the FC? There is stacks of cash out there - you just have to know where to look (and also be a suitable group to access it) - FC is limited to what it can apply for - CVDG could have applied for almost £2million - if they had been given the green light all the way - that is not say they would have got it all, but the money is there to be had - if you meet the criteria...
By all means post your thoughts, but please don't make them sound as though you are speaking with any authority on the subject as it is very clear you aren't - not an attempt at a go at you but the number of people who think they know what happened and that are so far from the truth it starts to grate when people come on and claim to know how it all happened...
Buying and riding a mountain bike is not some sort of inalienable right, nor is it yet provided by social services. If you don't have a car and you want to cycle, how about buying a road bike?
a what ??????
Craig - get a cross bike - then you can pretend you 'cross it at the weekend. Its what I have done 😉
At the time the FC didn't want any trails built
Richard - did you ever find out [i]why[/i]?
I just dont understand why they wouldn't it - good publicity, people outside and enjoying themselves, land put to good to use, its not real work form them if the CVDG did all the admin and digging...
The reason is D/G needs investment because of its poor economy and the stanes were introduced directly as a consequence of the impact of foot and mouth on tourism. As a galloway boy I think we deserve investment you compare the ecomomy of Perthshire and that of Wigtonshire and the oppertunities for employment in the central belt with those in rural Galloway no Common Wealth games money comming our way
Oh. I didnt think of this. Also my comment wasnt meant to sound like D&G was getting to much - just that if you are developing can we have some too! It reads a bit like sour grapes when I read it back now. Sorry!
Protueus / Dick barton - fair enough. I stand corrected
By all means post your thoughts, but please don't make them sound as though you are speaking with any authority on the subject as it is very clear you aren't..............
Hence I put " I don't know the whole story of " "IIRC" " I believe" and so on - I thought that showed that I did not have all the information
apologies
Does anyone know when all trails will be open again?Hope they have done away with the tight switchbacks after Kelpies, they are too tight and you lose all speed.I will still ride there as its only 20 mins away but could be so much better.
To allow people who perhap don't understand what has gone on at Carron Valley.....see this [url= http://www.carronvalley.org.uk/ ]null[/url]....TJ amoung others.
A little story about FCS and a freedom of information request concerning Carron Valley that went to the Information Commissioner because it was refused by FCS the request. Information Commissioner rules that there were 5 breaches of legislation. FCS top man's (Dr Bob McIntosh) response was it was a marginal ruling........interesting response from a public body!!!
A second story...a current Scottish Minister passes a call to investigate improper practice within FCS.....the Minister then passes letter and investigation to FCS.......so now we have a public body investigating itself and the investigation is led by it's top management. The very same top management who are heavily criticised in the call for an investigation!!!
Both these little stories are sadly true...you judge, read the website the evidence is very clear.
Hurray, some classic CV feedback…
For a start, don’t panic about Kelpies. The original rock chute is still there; it’s a bit shorter (a stream re-route and a new culvert pipe meant the run-out area had to be raised) and there is a goodly layer of surfacing on top, but the stonework is un-touched. ‘Best thing you can do is ride it loads and expose the rocks again.
I’ve got to admit the second chute was a surprise to me (the contractor got carried away) but it’s also pretty good under the surfacing, and about right for Novices.
Look, Carron Valley has got issues. Turn the clock back three months and any week day you would see guided groups of first timers riding an excellent Blue grade climb as a Red grade descent. Result: loads of skidding, puddles in all the dips and a surface that had worn off to expose vicious rocks. Half way down the trail they meet an unavoidable, Black grade rock chute that would rip your face off if you took a heeder half way down. You do the risk assessment and report back with some suggestions.
Here’s mine. Ride the upgraded section and help wear in a new line. Let the edges grow in and the rocks appear. If you still think it’s sh!te I’ll listen! Next, Turn out on one of the planned volunteer days and help to improve the rest of the trail.
Oh yes, the revised Runway should be ready in a fortnight. The worlds first triple grade trail. Blue, Red and Orange. Oh yes! Comments and additional grading colours requested……..
Turn out on one of the planned volunteer days
Got more details on this petey?
Sounds interesting...any more details?
I’ve got to admit the second chute was a surprise to me (the contractor got carried away)
Superb - Did they bill the FC for it as well? 🙂
Black grade rock chute that would rip your face off if you took a heeder half way down.
Black is Ayers Rock at Laggan etc - Kelpies is a red 100%. Also I have come off it many a time and still seem to have a face...
Ride the upgraded section and help wear in a new line. Let the edges grow in and the rocks appear. If you still think it’s sh!te I’ll listen!
Okay. Fair point.
Next, Turn out on one of the planned volunteer days and help to improve the rest of the trail.
More info please! I'll be there! Although if there was say a group of people, with a website and a community built, who had a goal to develop carron valley as a group, with willing volunteers, perhaps it would have been good if people had worked with them no?
h yes, the revised Runway should be ready in a fortnight. The worlds first triple grade trail. Blue, Red and Orange. Oh yes!
Actually that sounds interesting. If its the same contractors it could end up being some multi-lane epic 😀
So, if you don't mind me asking, who are you in relation to CV?
A couple of my riding mates were up at CV recently and loved the changes to the top section. They reckon it's way faster and more flowing and thought it was a great improvement. If I remember correctly, they said the resurfacing only extends to the next steep corner after Kelpies that was pretty badly torn up by folk locking their brakes. The rest of the tight switch backs have been left alone. I'm looking forward to riding up there the next dry night and giving it a go. 🙂
The guys also walked down part of the 'runway' section to see what's being done, and again, they were very excited by what they saw, and going by their descriptions, so am I. I won't spoil it for you though!
There are plenty of very technical, natural local rides in the area, some of which hold up reasonably well in the winter. Carron Valley is a great wee distraction when the weather is seriously poop and you want a fast, flowy ride to practice getting the bike through stuff with minimal braking.
B.
were very excited by what they saw, and going by their descriptions, so am I. I won't spoil it for you though!
Go on, spoil it.
they've built a perfect loop-the-loop, whats remarkable is that it's only marked as "green".
seriously though. CV is really a set of 'green' trails. Kelpies is not black and not really all that red either. The run with the jumplets is not red either - it's green and is entirely rollable.
Go on, spoil it.
Shan't 😈
