Does anyone know when all trails will be open again?Hope they have done away with the tight switchbacks after Kelpies, they are too tight and you lose all speed.I will still ride there as its only 20 mins away but could be so much better.
To allow people who perhap don't understand what has gone on at Carron Valley.....see this [url= http://www.carronvalley.org.uk/ ]null[/url]....TJ amoung others.
A little story about FCS and a freedom of information request concerning Carron Valley that went to the Information Commissioner because it was refused by FCS the request. Information Commissioner rules that there were 5 breaches of legislation. FCS top man's (Dr Bob McIntosh) response was it was a marginal ruling........interesting response from a public body!!!
A second story...a current Scottish Minister passes a call to investigate improper practice within FCS.....the Minister then passes letter and investigation to FCS.......so now we have a public body investigating itself and the investigation is led by it's top management. The very same top management who are heavily criticised in the call for an investigation!!!
Both these little stories are sadly true...you judge, read the website the evidence is very clear.
Hurray, some classic CV feedback…
For a start, don’t panic about Kelpies. The original rock chute is still there; it’s a bit shorter (a stream re-route and a new culvert pipe meant the run-out area had to be raised) and there is a goodly layer of surfacing on top, but the stonework is un-touched. ‘Best thing you can do is ride it loads and expose the rocks again.
I’ve got to admit the second chute was a surprise to me (the contractor got carried away) but it’s also pretty good under the surfacing, and about right for Novices.
Look, Carron Valley has got issues. Turn the clock back three months and any week day you would see guided groups of first timers riding an excellent Blue grade climb as a Red grade descent. Result: loads of skidding, puddles in all the dips and a surface that had worn off to expose vicious rocks. Half way down the trail they meet an unavoidable, Black grade rock chute that would rip your face off if you took a heeder half way down. You do the risk assessment and report back with some suggestions.
Here’s mine. Ride the upgraded section and help wear in a new line. Let the edges grow in and the rocks appear. If you still think it’s sh!te I’ll listen! Next, Turn out on one of the planned volunteer days and help to improve the rest of the trail.
Oh yes, the revised Runway should be ready in a fortnight. The worlds first triple grade trail. Blue, Red and Orange. Oh yes! Comments and additional grading colours requested……..
Turn out on one of the planned volunteer days
Got more details on this petey?
Sounds interesting...any more details?
I’ve got to admit the second chute was a surprise to me (the contractor got carried away)
Superb - Did they bill the FC for it as well? 🙂
Black grade rock chute that would rip your face off if you took a heeder half way down.
Black is Ayers Rock at Laggan etc - Kelpies is a red 100%. Also I have come off it many a time and still seem to have a face...
Ride the upgraded section and help wear in a new line. Let the edges grow in and the rocks appear. If you still think it’s sh!te I’ll listen!
Okay. Fair point.
Next, Turn out on one of the planned volunteer days and help to improve the rest of the trail.
More info please! I'll be there! Although if there was say a group of people, with a website and a community built, who had a goal to develop carron valley as a group, with willing volunteers, perhaps it would have been good if people had worked with them no?
h yes, the revised Runway should be ready in a fortnight. The worlds first triple grade trail. Blue, Red and Orange. Oh yes!
Actually that sounds interesting. If its the same contractors it could end up being some multi-lane epic 😀
So, if you don't mind me asking, who are you in relation to CV?
A couple of my riding mates were up at CV recently and loved the changes to the top section. They reckon it's way faster and more flowing and thought it was a great improvement. If I remember correctly, they said the resurfacing only extends to the next steep corner after Kelpies that was pretty badly torn up by folk locking their brakes. The rest of the tight switch backs have been left alone. I'm looking forward to riding up there the next dry night and giving it a go. 🙂
The guys also walked down part of the 'runway' section to see what's being done, and again, they were very excited by what they saw, and going by their descriptions, so am I. I won't spoil it for you though!
There are plenty of very technical, natural local rides in the area, some of which hold up reasonably well in the winter. Carron Valley is a great wee distraction when the weather is seriously poop and you want a fast, flowy ride to practice getting the bike through stuff with minimal braking.
B.
were very excited by what they saw, and going by their descriptions, so am I. I won't spoil it for you though!
Go on, spoil it.
they've built a perfect loop-the-loop, whats remarkable is that it's only marked as "green".
seriously though. CV is really a set of 'green' trails. Kelpies is not black and not really all that red either. The run with the jumplets is not red either - it's green and is entirely rollable.
Go on, spoil it.
Shan't 😈
Well, I've been and I liked it. Much faster over the new sections of Eas Dubh.
No one appears to have mentioned the tree stump 'sculptures' within the wooded bit either. I spotted an arrow, a wee wild man, a toadstool and a couple of other ones. The posts the directions are attached to have all been changed for bigger ones too - noticed this a couple of weeks ago. The existing signs look like they may be getting changed as they're not the right size for the space on the new posts. All vitally important info 😉
Oh, and I took my brother up too - his first trail centre and actually his first time on a bike for yonks. He loved it...
I just stuck this map together (Google maps is actually really good for this!) to show how important CV could be
You missed off the ones up by Aberdeen, Kirkhill forest I think?
If you still think it’s sh!te I’ll listen! Next, Turn out on one of the planned volunteer days and help to improve the rest of the trail.
Is the issue here maybe a bit of a lack of communication? Info on the FC website regarding CV is pretty scant and although there's a noticeboard in the car park, not much gets put up on it.
I don't think its unreasonable to want challenging trails at CV - the "go to Laggan or Inners" comment earlier ignores the most important point about CV, its proximity to major urban conurbations. Surely an option that means less road travel from Glasgow or Stirling is worthwhile. The forest is certainly big enough and hilly enough to accommodate everyone. Trail centres aren't everyone's cup of tea, and they're certainly not the only thing you can do on a bike in the Campsies and surrounding area, but people obviously like them and want to use them.
On the issue of risk assessment at CV - does the fact that there's no mobile reception there play a part at all?
D’,
I’m a full time trailbuilder and the chap who is providing some trailbuilding guidance to the contractor carrying out the repair and upgrade works at C.V. (Colin Devenny) I’m involved because the local FC recreation bods Peter and Andy wanted to sort out the current safety issues at CV and to improve the riding experience as much as budgets will allow. They asked me to look at Eas Dubh and The Runway and to suggest some repairs and upgrades.
I mentioned volunteer days because the rest of Eas Dubh needs a bit of drainage work.… culverts at the switchbacks and the odd patch of surfacing. Taking heavy machines in along the trailway will result in a complete re-build (as we found out elsewhere) so work squads are going to be the only practical method. The FC rec’ boys are keen to take on some of the work but two or three volunteer days will make a big dent. A couple of clubs have offered to turn out for some trail grafting and FC are up for supervising, mucking in, providing tools etc.
Just keep an eye open for dates.
'Didn't mean to be tetchy by the way.
David/Richard
Hows in going? I had hoped to keep my wee spell at CV low key because I did not want to step on toes, but a covert operation just wasn’t going to happen!! As far as I can gather the current FC Rec people just want to have a fresh start at CV and to get the regular users involved in caring for the trails again. I’ve absolutely no idea what will happen at CV in the future but I think most folks are aware of the desperate need for some extra trail mileage. Whether this can be, or will be driven from inside FC I don’t know. I just hope attitudes towards the place mellow a bit and the decision makers take a more positive approach to the building of new trails. I would guess the national ‘no new mtb trails’ ruling that scuppered the CVDG project has got to come to an end sometime. Fingers crossed.
The new Runway is pretty much a re-build because the original trail disappeared into the mud as soon as the dumpers started to run. We’ve kept the original line, beefed up the drainage, laid a new trail base and finer surfacing and built a bigger variety of jumps. It has to be safe for Blue riders so there are no huge drops or steep ramps but I don’t think anyone will complain about a lack of action.
Pete
Nice one Petey, cheers for taking the time to lay all that out.
As far as I can gather the current FC Rec people just want to have a fresh start at CV and to get the regular users involved in caring for the trails again
I think that's what everyone wants, so fingers crossed as you say.
Fair play...
It's always very easy to be critical of other folks work - both the original and the "makeover" and fwiw: 5 years ago (when this trail was designed) FCS themselves could neither clearly define nor demonstrate consistent trail grading / trail features at any of their other centres far less at Carron Valley;-)
Hitherto CV hasn't had a bean spent on trail maintenance (4 years+) so I think it's done pretty damn well considering the hammering, the weather and the prevailing ground conditions.
The ministerial guidance (no new trails) might officially be coming from the Minister - and who is it that advises the Minister? Of course the current lack of provision in Central Scotland is stupid: two major reports flagged it and it's officially supposed to be one of Scottish Cyclings targets to resolve.
Just to scotch the "personality" euphimisms which TJ and others regularly dine out on - they were nothing of the sort. All relationships of this sort involve strong personalities on each side do they not? Corrosion sets in when one party completely dominates and manipulates the entire partnership.
The fact is the entire gamut of trail types (including walking trails)were covered under the proposed plans and FCS were not in partnership exclusively with CVDG: Stirling & Northlan Councils, Scottish Water and others were all heavily involved and all are on record heavily criticising FCS tactics / behaviour.
It also suited one or two individuals within FCS to polarise the debate into CVDG = extreme trails ( i.e Red;-)and FCS = "inclusive family experience."
Bottom line, you cannot argue with fundamental geography - the place is only 15 mins from Stirling, all of North Lanarkshire and large chunks of Glasgow. Riders of all ages and abilities converge on the place anyway so it makes no sense whatsoever to artificially stream the trails there as Green and Blue only any more than it makes sense to make them all Red and Black.
One of the last dying acts of CVDG and the other partners (excluding FCS obviously) was to try and get "the green trail" built. FCS did everything in their power to block it. If the reason for that was to get rid of the nasty CVDG well, they got their wish. So, as Petey indirectly hints, perhaps now they could swallow their stupid bloody pride and take him up on some of his suggestions.
I mentioned volunteer days because the rest of Eas Dubh needs a bit of drainage work.… culverts at the switchbacks and the odd patch of surfacing. Taking heavy machines in along the trailway will result in a complete re-build (as we found out elsewhere) so work squads are going to be the only practical method. The FC rec’ boys are keen to take on some of the work but two or three volunteer days will make a big dent.
I'm in for this mate - it might be worth speaking to one of the CVDG bods as they may still have the list of email addys for the people that volunteered on their web site - perhaps a mail to people asking if they don't mind their details being passed to you would be do-able?
I didn't mean to get at you - its great that something is happening at CV! I just didn't understand why the changes were being made. From what I can see you have been tasked with making it safer while keeping it fun for a limited budget and within the demands made by the FC? In that case you have done a good job!
I'm actually getting excited about whats going on with the runway - "The worlds first triple grade trail. Blue, Red and Orange. Oh yes!" Sounds interesting!
Do you have a firm opening day? Anything planned?
You missed off the ones up by Aberdeen, Kirkhill forest I think?
Added - any more I have missed?
How much of a loss do the changes to the trail network at Carron Valley really constitute? Sadly, the area is unlikely to ever realise it's true potential but are the changes really so bad? If you want technical trail riding, you don't have to ride far from Carron Valley to find plenty of natural trails that will appeal to those who want more of a challenge e.g. Dumayat, North Third, some fruity stuff in and around Mugdock Country Park, Dumgoyne, Aberfoyle etc. 😀
Dumayat, North Third, some fruity stuff in and around Mugdock Country Park, Dumgoyne, Aberfoyle
All very good stuff - but I was trying to avoid ending up axle deep in mud while not driving for 3 or more hours. I just fancied something a bit trail center ish on sunday. Weak I know 🙂
Actually, I'm thinking that we should get the FC / Pete Laing to work on some of the Sustrans routes in the Stirling area.
The new Kelpies staircase is way smoother than the cyclepath on the way to Fallin - particularly as it dives on a blind corner into under the bypass. Or what about that tricky barrier beside the local school - I can't get my bike through that. Maybe everyone is riding their mtb in the wrong place if they're looking for technical challenges.
Does rather question what the FC are doing when you compare it with what I have to ride as part of my daily commute on the local cycle network.
(PS Everyone looking for a new experience at CV should head up to the wind farm on Hart Hill - the access road is at the other end of the reservoir. OK the trails are not exactly singletrack in width but the views are superb and the turbines are impressive)
>Sadly, the area is unlikely to ever realise it's true potential<
Perhaps, but then ever's a very long time:
The only potential partners "on the Campsie Fells Steering Group favouring a looser “green network” would be SNH and or FCS - most probably the latter.
Same old story really - if it's your ball you can do what the hell you like with it, e.g: whilst FCS were giving CVDG and the other partners on the CVP a shoeing they were quietly buying up half the Campsies on the other side of the hill (huge chunk of land West of the Crow road)
The Hart hill and pending Carron turbine development was discussed at length within the CVP. There was a lot of enthusiasm from Stirling Council re linking in access trails to Carron (planning gain) also from existing acces points / ROW from Kilsyth in the South, the Crow road to the West and Denny via the old drove road to the East.
Wrll put the Heather man......Pete good luck........new ranger at CV with a fresh attitude....done that been there, the issue sits far higher up the FCS wind blown tree.
It was interesting that it was the new Ranger at CV said there was a block on new trails by the Scottish Government......I wonder if the Scottish Government know that???? Come to think of of it haven't we heard that line before.....yip..... been there done that.......it is amazing how there seems to be special rules for CV and no other place!!!
The End, it really was today Heather man and co (4 days before the deadline!!)
Wow just looking at the population density maps for scotland (what an exciting evening I am having!) and found [url= http://www.scotland.org/about/fact-file/population/index.html ]2006[/url] and [url= http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1082 ]2007[/url].
I didnt expect Aberdeen or south of Glasgow to be so dense (population wise).
Perhaps the forresty commision dont have it totally wrong after all!
Oh and for anyone who has not seen my other thread a map in progress of trail centres I have found is [url= http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=107439754286249639484.00047880d5e9c417af15e ]here[/url].
David.
[i]TandemJeremy dribbled:
apologies[/i]
What's the point. You'll be doing it again on another topic you know little about before too long. It's why you "enjoy" a certain reputation on this forum. Hiding behind "believe" and "IIRC" isn't good enough - why don't you tell us what your connection to this topic is? Sounds like you know someone in the know...
Proteus - the right little attack dog tonight aren't you. Yap yap yap
lol, but you didn't answer his question.
Anyone know if the latest works at Carron valley are completed? Keen to go up soon and see what's been done.
See stirling bike club mtb forum I read something about it being open again in there
IMHO, I think what they've done at CV is a vast improvement.
When you consider how badly worn the approach to Kelpie's was (from the top of Eas Dubh), it's a much needed improvement. Now, you can get a decent amount of speed on the way down to Kelpie's without having to brake unecceasrily for corners that are too sharp with no berm and there's no huge puddles now from people jumping on their brakes.
If you ask me, the line approaching Kelpie's used to be awful and I could never get pointing straight down it. Yes, they've sanitised Kelpie's a fair bit but the improvement to the approach negates that if you ask me. On the whole, it's an improvement. As someone else mentioned, once Kelpie's is ridden a lot, then the rocks should re-appear.
I was on the Runway on Sunday, and a couple of weeks before, and I also feel that it's a huge improvement. The old Runway was awful unless you approached the jumps at a very specific speed and, for those lacking jumping confidence, it wasn't the best. Also, if you came off at all, the rocks were so damn sharp you'd do yourself a bad one!
Now, the Runway offers something for most riders whether you want to fly, rip over stuff quickly without nec essarily getting air, or just want to mosy on down. A good example of that was when I was with a friend on Sunday - he has bags more confidence than I do when it comes to flying and he thoroughly enjoyed it and so did I - we both got different stuff out of the trail.
CV, as it is, is a pretty good small trail. It's great to head up on a weekend morning to get out for an hour or so. Clearly, I get that benefit as I live pretty close to it. If people travel from outwith Glasgow/Stirling/West Edinburgh radius then they're going to be slightly disappointed in what it has to offer if they feel they want a good reward for travelling a fair distance.
Just my 2c - I like CV but I know it is nothing compared to other trails in the Borders, Highlands etc - but then would you expect a world class trail a baw-hair away from Glasgow/Stirling?
A couple of weeks ago I was out in Denny on business and I went lookign for CV and coudn't find it. I took the road past Strathcarron Hospice and drove for ages but I don't know if I was in the right area. Any help? I might take a drive out that way tomorrow.
Just keep following that road for another 5 miles until you get to the Carron Valley reservoir. Its a turn off to the left just before the reservoir starts.
cheers duffman.
First time I visited CV I was pretty depressed, it was fast boring and what I'd grade a blue. I went again recently before these upgrades and found it even less exciting, I really can't see anything that qualified as a red unless my grading scheme is very different from everyone elses. Kelpies - black?! WTF? That has to be a joke, surely? I'm no riding god, by any stretch of the imagination (ask anyone I ride with!), but when I met kelpies I had to be TOLD I'd "missed" it in my haste to find it. It makes the red at llandegla look like a double black ski run?!
If it's just a low-grade trail centre designed for beginners, fair enough, but don't red-grade something that doesn't require it.
As for the Kelpies red/black arrgument, personally i bottled it 80% of the time iv'e approached it. IMO it was a black trail feature that should always have had a chicken run. I know theres been at least one air lift from it and i came across two people crumpled in a heap on one occasion also heard one horror story about some one losing an eye due to a tumble.
All I can say is you need to go out wearing cotton wool if you think that requires bottling 80% of the time. IT certainly isnt even red, let alone black.
GhostRider - MemberAs for the Kelpies red/black arrgument, personally i bottled it 80% of the time iv'e approached it. IMO it was a black trail feature that should always have had a chicken run. I know theres been at least one air lift from it and i came across two people crumpled in a heap on one occasion also heard one horror story about some one losing an eye due to a tumble.
Oooh - bad mistake. This is STW, where the standard of riding is well above that of World Cup level. You've just laid yourself open to accusations of being ghey, a pansy, a girl etc etc etc
As far as bottling, you're probably much more likely to have trouble with a feature which is out of character/grade of the trail before it- I sometimes crap it off Trail Perfection on Pie Run at Glentress- the lefthander with the roots- even though I've ridden far harder stuff elsewhere without hesitation, just because the run up to it puts my brain in the wrong gear for it. And I'm certainly not alone in that... From the sounds of it, this is the same sort of thing.
GHEY! PANSY! GIRL! etc.
onion - have you ridden it?
[url=
this is red/black I dont know how anyone copes with other trail centres[/url] Seriously, if you don't get told where it is you wouldn't know you'd been over it. The whole grading system is to pot, a red or black in the alps is more like what you might consider realistic. The Alpine grading is very consistant and correct, a red is technical and hard, often long, but not impossible, a black is VERY hard. This trail doesnt even fit into the other red/black routes schemes in the same country. Sorry if it seems elitist etc (it shouldn't im hardly a God) but as a kid I was riding this sort of thing with non-biking mates from the age of about 10 without even considering it, I just can't understand the view that it's tough. I know how that looks, but someone has to say it rather than going down the oooh well it was a bit tough route.
Never been there, but looks pretty straight forward to me.
BAAASSSSTTTERRRDSS! 🙁
coffeking - having just watched that youtube clip IMO that is as tricky as anything on the red at Glentress - so are you saying all of GT red should be blue graded as well?
Not up to laggan black in terms of difficulty but with no chicken run?????
Yeah, have to say I agree with TJ there, it fits pretty nicely into the spread of reds I've done. Looks harder than most of the rock features on Kirroughtree red, before someone comes back with "Ah but GT red is really easy". It wouldn't even register on Nevis Red, but then Nevis Red is red like coca cola is red.
Bringing alpine gradings into it makes no sense, unless Carron Valley is now considered an alp.
Was up at CV last Friday. Yes the beginning of Eas Dubh is santisised and yes Kelpies is gone but personally Eas Dubh was never that enjoyable anyone.
Cannonball has remained the same but IMHO the last section is a massive improvement. It's worth of the tag "fun park". It's totally smooth now but it's packed with features from start to finish and for beginners everything can be rolled but hitting it faster will be rewarding for more experienced riders.
Well time to eat some humble pie...
petey - MemberThe new Runway is pretty much a re-build because the original trail disappeared into the mud as soon as the dumpers started to run. We’ve kept the original line, beefed up the drainage, laid a new trail base and finer surfacing and built a bigger variety of jumps. It has to be safe for Blue riders so there are no huge drops or steep ramps but I don’t think anyone will complain about a lack of action.
Pete
I rode the new runway / fun park section yesterday for the first time and I loved it! To be honest I thought it would be crap and hit at full speed and blasted down - I had a huge grin on my face at the bottom! It felt a lot like the top half of Laggan to me - fast and sweeping with cheeky wee drops! I was also loving the small kickers on the jumps. I really liked the drop off into the bomb hole as well - it feels very fast and flowing - its great!
My only comment is that it puzzles me why Kelpies was made a very easy blue (its pretty much a small flat hill) and the fun park was made a bit of a harder red? I don't really get that but if someone had come to me and said: "David, its up to you mate, we can leave CV as it is or we can making the fun park into [i]this[/i] but you need to loose kelpies - what you going to choose?!?" then it would have been an easy choice! 🙂
It would be great to have a shortcut back to the top of the fun park tho - I nearly ****ted a guy pushing his bike back up the fun park. But hey you always get one clown... 😀
[b][i]Great work on the fun park Pete - thank you![/i][/b] [size=0.01]I may have been a bit wrong with your intentions to CV sorry![/size]
David.
April - end of financial year - lets spank some cash on nonsense and sanitize some more trail, could rant on for ages about FC wasting public money (GT wall ride - local forest road re-laid using granite) but it will get us nowhere, or will it? Facebook group, petitions, any suggestions welcome.
PS Love the motorway pic.
"April - end of financial year - lets spank some cash on nonsense and sanitize some more trail"
Take a deep breath, read when the first post was made 😉
I was there today. There's a bridge closed at the moment west of Fintry so there's a huge diversion from that side if anyones thinking of going soon I'd recommend going in from the east (not sure when the road will be open again though).
I've never been a massive fan of Eas Dhu or the Cannonball run but I did quite like the top section of Eas Dhu which was (until these 'improvements') nice and rough with the Kelpie's too. Kelpie's was quite easy and only needed a chicken run installing because it didn't have one before. I heard on the grapevine that there had been accidents so maybe FC were getting worried about being sued because some 'cyclists' have tried that.
I've always liked The Runway though as it gives me the chance to practice my jumps especially now it's smoother. I don't mind this trail being smooth because it's a jump park. Cracking weather today by the way.
Thanks for the note on the bridge GJ, that'll save me some time!
No problem. It may be open again tomorrow who know's? I came back via Denny.
We've only had two mountain-biking related injuries amongst the group of guys I ride with, and they were both at Kelpie's Staircase; a broken collar bone and a fractured wrist.
Seems there might be some truth in the idea that a couple of others have proposed; that an out of character feature like Kelpie's is more likely to cause accidents than the same feature on a trail where it would be in keeping with the overall level of difficulty.
out of character feature
Yeah I see your point. There used to be a small warning sign at the top of Kelpies but not sure it's there anymore since the changes. I think it was a fairly straight forward feature to cycle down once you had plucked up the courage and actually knew it was there but I can see how it could easily catch you out with nasty consequences. I had read about it and friends had warned me but without prior knowledge you might just think it's a drop off or something? I very nearly crashed today on the first jump which looks easy so you can't be too careful.