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No - as above
My issue is with people stating they are going to ignore the guidance
its shows a selfish lack of consideration for others.
We should all be doing our best to follow the guidance. Its as simple as that. Thats what your civic duty is
As I said before, there are basically two camps in this thread; “the rules are clear, you must follow them” and “the rules are vague and I’ll interpret them as I see fit”. Both camps vehemently argue their point,
My issue here is the third type who say " I am going to ignore the guidance" Same person also said he believed the legal restrictions were wrong.
If it’s just guidance and has no legal underpinning, how come the police are able to issue fines for not following it?
They're not as it is not against the law to travel outside of your local area for exercise in England. It's just not been challenged in court to stop them doing it yet.
I'm sure that many us of rightly question the logic behind many decisions in relation to Covid. However this is not an excuse to break rules, which are law by the way not just guidance. I do think that making any part of it open to interpretation is a bad plan though, leading to these sorts of crazy discussions about what constitutes 'local' travel to exercise. Personally when it comes to biking I will try to do circular routes from my house so that I remain no more than 5 miles or so away at any point.
My other sport is kitesurfing and it's going to be very annoying not being able to go, especially since it is the perfect socially distanced sport. However if I broke down, got into an accident etc there is no way I could justify travelling 20 miles or so just because I think I know better. No national rules are going to suit everyone but sadly a lot of people are not behaving sensibly at all, and I think the attitude that it applies to everyone else but not me is really common.
My next door neighbour regularly has family members round and I'm too polite to call him out on it since it is not going to achieve anything, we live in quite a remote location and I think he just thinks it's OK for him to do what he likes even though he talks as if he is doing everything right.
This guy probably knows better than most of us:
Professor Hugh Montgomery says hospitals are facing a "tsunami" of Covid cases. People who do not follow social distancing rules or wear masks "have blood on their hands", an intensive care doctor has warned.
I'll be going out on my mountain bike tonight with 1 other person - staying local, but driving to the start (3 miles away), the ride will be approx 10 miles long, and may stray into derbyshire as we're on the border.
I think thats ok - not sure about what anyone else would think - I guess we'll see.....
Julians - seeing as I seem to be seen as a fundamentalist I'll answer.
No issue from my point of view apart from the 3 mile drive. But then i would have issue with that at any time 🙂
No – as above
My issue is with people stating they are going to ignore the guidance
its shows a selfish lack of consideration for others.
We should all be doing our best to follow the guidance. Its as simple as that. Thats what your civic duty is
wow with answers like that are you a politician in your free time?
So let’s just get this straight, your ok with someone having dinner in a pub surrounded by people because its within guidance, but a solo bike ride out of guidance is wrong? Despite one clearly having a higher risk of transmission than the other? Can you not see the really odd logic in that?
And that is exactly why I ignore all the guidance and do what I think is best. It happens to be better than anything the government has provided or enforced.
- I haven't been sat indoors in a public place (office, pub, restaurant etc,.) since last March, even though the guidance said I could at many times through last year.
- I haven't been in anyone else's house since last March, even though the guidance said I could at many times through last year.
- I will however go and cycle on my own as much as I like.
It is very obvious to me Which of the activities above will spread the virus and which will not.
It is very obvious to me Which of the activities above will spread the virus and which will not.
Agree with you dude and have done similar. The difference is by someone providing an answer to my simple question reveals how thin the point is.
@kerley My approach too. Government guidance is the maximum they think they can impose, whereas I take it that this is the minimum required and extra is required.
Remember the populist government is not looking out for the people just their mates and those they are in hock to. Time was public service was just that not an excuse to feather your own nest.
My issue here is the third type who say ” I am going to ignore the guidance” Same person also said he believed the legal restrictions were wrong.
Ignoring the guidance works both ways. I had no intention of visiting a busy shopping centre when they were open. I didn't meet with other households over Christmas. People should be able to take personal responsibility to minimise their interactions with others. I also believe other legal restrictions are wrong and I'm sure you do to. If you lived in England I'm sure you'd support responsible riding on footpaths despite it being against the law.
My main problem is how far the guidance differs from the law and the confusion and conflict that causes. The guidance states you should only exercise once a day, locally and only with one other person whilst maintaining social distancing. Whilst some people may see those, or parts of those restrictions as sensible, the law allows for unlimited exercise, with no limit on travel and no social distancing.
As I said before, there are basically two camps in this thread; “the rules are clear, you must follow them” and “the rules are vague and I’ll interpret them as I see fit”. Both camps vehemently argue their point,
Part of the problem is the fundamental disagreement of those who see the law as being the rules to follow, and others who see the guidance in the same way.
what about when the guidance is that schools are completely safe, or that we should all eat out to help the local economy? Do I have to follow those with the same zeal?
The guidance is the maximum. You of course ( as anyone sensible would) do less
Joepud - you are trying to put words in my mouth that I never said using an obvious rhetorical trap
The other answer to your question is both increase risk overall by an unquantifiable amount.
No Gribs - the law you are legally mandated to follow, the guidance you should follow assuming you have a social conscience
what about when the guidance is that schools are completely safe, or that we should all eat out to help the local economy? Do I have to follow those with the same zeal?
Don't be silly, must pick and choose which rules you follow then lambaste anyone who doesn't follow said rules you deem important then call them perverse, selfish, part of the problem and even go as far as saying how many people are you happy to murder. After all this is all in the name of your "civic duty." Oh and also remember, you have zero problem with people sitting in a packed restaurant one week then when its against the guidance you must shun and stone those people.
Joepud – you are trying to put words in my mouth that I never said using an obvious rhetorical trap
As for this nope. I simply asked a question to highlight the holes in the issue.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, lamb baste
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I cannot make my position any clear. Its a pity you either do not understand or that you want to twist something for your own strange agenda.
You are attempting to make out I said something I never did
for what its worth I have not been in pubs or any other similar place since sept.
One thing thats clear - the selfish folk with no social conscience have outed themselves
The guidance is the maximum
Devil's advocate - you refusing to eat out to help out because of your perceived risk calculation has caused that guy's restaurant to fold, he now can't support his family and has lost all he invested to build it up, his kid's life chances are ****ed up and his wife has run off with the coffee shop owner who does good coffee and cake takeaway.
Did you consider that before selfishly staying in to protect yourself?
Eating out to help out was the instruction, the minimum was to follow it, the maximum was to rip the arse out of it while Rishi was picking up the tab. Every extra meal out saves some poor kiddie from the breadline
/seriously
1/ the Gov doesn't have a clue what they're doing and neither blind obeyance nor complete disregard is appropriate
2/ Diff'rent folks have diff'rent interpretation of Rule 1 and (within reason) if we make enemies of anyone that doesn't subscribe to your own version it's going to be a long 6 months.
So let’s just get this straight, your ok with someone having dinner in a pub surrounded by people because its within guidance, but a solo bike ride out of guidance is wrong?
If the guidance was being followed, all those people at the pub for those meals should have been 2 metres apart from anyone not in their household/bubble.
The social distancing guidance never changed, regardless of group size or location. But it got overlooked, forgotten, ignored by everyone from the government, the media and more crucially, everyone in the pub. And that's where it went wrong and numbers started rising.
And when a few people think it's ok to ignore/stretch guidelines, a few more will do it as well and we've seen how it snowballs from there.
One meal at the local pub in July convinced me that it was best to avoid them, and not been in one since. But I broke guidelines a few times in the summer when I gave my parents a quick hug after meeting them in their garden.
Not hugged them since the schools went back in September, even on days I've had to drive my mum to hospital for medical appointments - all masked up and windows down. It's breaking all our hearts, but we're trying to get them to the point of being vaccinated.
One thing thats clear – the selfish folk with no social conscience have outed themselves
One thing thats also clear the judge jury and executioner have also outed themselves.
One thing thats also clear the judge jury and executioner have also outed themselves.
Drama queen. Or, in modern parlance… snowflake. Anyone drawing attention to their own intentions to ignore short lived guidelines aimed at keeping our NHS functioning for us all… and then complaining that some people don’t approve, is, well… why would you not expect that response? Do what the hell you want, tell us all about it… not everyone will pat you on the back and tell you how very special you are. Suck it up.
If the guidance was being followed, all those people at the pub for those meals should have been 2 metres apart from anyone not in their household/bubble.
Yep, and spending a couple of hours in an enclosed room 2 metres away from a table full of people with Covid is in my mind not a good idea and exactly why I did not do it even if I was allowed to and even worse was incentivised to.
I will however continue to ride my bike on solo rides for as long as I want to.
Drama queen. Or, in modern parlance… snowflake. Anyone drawing attention to their own intentions to ignore short lived guidelines aimed at keeping our NHS functioning for us all… and then complaining that some people don’t approve, is, well… why would you not expect that response?
Honestly I feel like the reaction to me saying I go on a solo non local bike ride after spending the majority of my week at home a little extreme. At one point someone actually said (although not directed at me) and I quote "How many people is it OK for you to kill by your selfish behavior?" - I mean come on get a grip. Someone going to work every day on public transport likely has a higher chance of infection / infecting than I do on a bike ride. If thats the reaction to a bike ride imagine the reaction to someone that hugged their mum or went to a party with 4 bubbles over xmas.
Do what the hell you want. Don’t complain if people don’t applaud you. No one is the “judge jury and executioner” for being critical of others saying they won’t follow the guidelines, or that they don’t agree with the law. Do what you want. Tell us all about it. Deal with the fact not everyone will say “good on you”. For what it’s worth, I have no problem with solo rides from your door of any length. Go prepared. Have a plan to get home come what may. Crack on!
Do what the hell you want. Don’t complain if people don’t applaud you. No one is the “judge jury and executioner” for being critical of others saying they won’t follow the guidelines,
there is critical then the suggestion you are killing people. The two are extremely different things.
Spreading the virus, at a time the NHS is at capacity, will mean more people die. The guidelines are there to help us avoid spreading the virus. Your actions sound very unlikely to spread the virus to me. Others have lots of experience of the NHS and absolutely will be more emotional in their language. Deal with it. Stop whining.
My issue here is the third type who say “I am going to ignore the guidance” Same person also said he believed the legal restrictions were wrong.
I agree with this. I didn’t read it as having anything to do with your plans Joe.
Deal with it. Stop whining.
Ok, so when i have been basically verbally attack me im supposed to just "deal with it" top advice. I also like how you can just pass off people language as "emotional" when its clearly just wrong. Have a nice evening.
Toughen up. Seriously. He criticises someone else, you go on and on defending that third party, who knows why. He goes all hyperbolic. So what?
My issue is with people stating they are going to ignore the guidance
its shows a selfish lack of consideration for others.
We should all be doing our best to follow the guidance. Its as simple as that. Thats what your civic duty is
I agree with all this. I don’t think it applies to you or your actions Joe, you seem to be well up for doing what you need to do with due consideration to others and the horrible problem our society currently faces.
I have been referring to this thread for the past few days when I have been online and have found it quite entertaining.
I am now depressed having caught up on the past few pages... I read somewhere else today that the single most important thing we can do at the moment is be kind to our fellow human beings, many people are suffering stresses and anxieties that others may have no idea about.
So come on, let's get it back on track as an interesting and informative thread - eh ??
I personally have no problem with someone doing a 50 mile solo road loop from their door. If I had a road bike other than an old single speed Kona Bandwagon I would be doing it. I'll be out in my local woods on Friday doing a solo ride 6 or 7 miles from my house. I reserve my ire for the groups I see huddled round the picnic tables who are obviously not a household. Especially the ones who then leave their coffee cups for someone else to pick up when the bins are on the way back to their Audi 4x4s
Others have lots of experience of the NHS and absolutely will be more emotional in their language.
Thats exactly it. The last few weeks I have been looking after people with covid. the only reason we got the outbreak is because someone did not follow the guidence. We do not know how and why but that is the only way it got in because if everyone had followed it then there would have been no outbreak
I don't have a choice in this. I have to put myself at risk. Because of this outbreak I had to miss a close friends funeral, I didn't see my parents of xmas. I have been put at risk ( along with many others and real significant risk) because of someone who thought they could ignore the guidance
thats why I get a bit het up.
Because of this outbreak I had to miss a close friends funeral, I didn’t see my parents of xmas. I have been put at risk ( along with many others and real significant risk) because of someone who thought they could ignore the guidance
I feel for you, I have been in the same situation. However I still feel at times some of the language here has been wrong. However I wont tell you what I told a few pages ago which was "Ah, the sympathy vote as justification. I’m not buying."
Original..
Changes..
Tl:dr yes, you may legally ride your bike in the countryside
Thanks to all the people who posted the new legislation, much appreciated.
The Guidelines are here, so they're all in one place:
I was a strict adherent to the laws and guidelines the first time. This time I'm going to do what I regard as reasonable which pretty much means obeying all the rules and guidelines except the "one a day" guideline. (...and I'm not really sure I'm breaking that guideline - taking a young child out as a carer during the child's exercise doesn't preclude someone from going out a second time for their own exercise AFAICT. If so, I'm following the guidelines)
The 'you might fall over and clog up a hospital bed argument' used to convince me but I'm far more likely to hurt myself with power tools around the home. That leaves "you should obey all govt advice" Yet, Governments all over the world advised not to wear a mouth covering in the early days partially on the basis it increased spread. I looked at the evidence of the first two mask preprints and was a *very* early adopter of a cloth facemask. I don't feel I got that wrong in spite of Government advice being that masks caused spread.
During lockdown 1 i was regularly riding round the suffolk countryside visiting various churchyards - 20 to 30 miles round trips with no problem. As for the if you injure your self argument - i had to have an ambulance visit yesterday because of a back injury sustained getting a screwdriver out of the boot of my car. The muscle was spasming so bad i couldn't even get off the sofa for 8 hrs until the medics doped me up with entonox: so I wouldn't be worried about cycling. If the weather wasn't so shit and my back wasn't playing up i'd be cycling round the countryside. The police round here hate getting out of their cars unless it's to buy donuts in Tesco's or hassle motorists.
the only reason we got the outbreak is because someone did not follow the guidence.
Not necessarily.
I agree with those above saying that people could be nicer to each other here.
I would say it’s more important to make sure you don’t spread the virus than to follow the letter of the law, but I think we should also also make sure that our actions don’t encourage others to ignore the rules.
The police round here hate getting out of their cars unless it’s to buy donuts in Tesco’s or hassle motorists.
You have police? You lucky so and so. No police station here in a town of 40,000 people
Yes Crispo - you do not know the circumstances but I assure you thats the only way it got in. someone made a mistake / did not follow the guidance.
Whilst it is slightly Aussie in outlook I think this sums up the fundamental problems.
The guy who decides coronavirus rules
@allanoleary - only in the town. Theres no donut shops in the sticks. In fact can't remember seeing one once out of the town boundaries unless it's hiding behind a van with a speed gun.
Our government never said masks encourage spread did they?
No.
I want doughnuts now.
It's pretty depressing reading and now participating in this discussion again. However as before there are facts missing.
As you can read from the NPCC guidance, the police have no mandate or interest in preventing travel within the bounds of reasonable reasons to leave home. Why would they? There is zero evidence of Covid transmissivity being significant in open spaces.
Furthermore of the oft sighted reason for not travelling: increasing risk of of accidents therby burdening the NHS is bullshit too. I'd like to see the evidence that that risk is not offset by the mental health impacts of not doing the things we live for!
Governments have always been a poor measure for doing the right thing and this is no different.
I’d like to see the evidence that that risk is not offset by the mental health impacts of not doing the things we live for!
The mental health impacts of lockdown are real. That truth doesn’t help hospital staff stretched to the limit this month and next. Any reduction in road accidents right now genuinely will.
The mental health impacts of lockdown are real. That truth doesn’t help hospital staff stretched to the limit this month and next. Any reduction in road accidents right now genuinely will
A consultant on the news today saying quite bluntly that the way things are going they soon won't have space to treat accident victims, or anyone else.
I totally get the mental health concerns of lockdown, I've had my issues in the past. But I think we we lose 6-7000 a year to suicide in the UK. Awful as that is, that's looking like 1 weeks Covid deaths in the next few weeks.