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Of course, but you’re adding an unnecessary risk by riding further afield. The whole point of keeping it local is that you probably won’t get lost, and could walk home if you needed to.
It’s a small risk for sure
im adding an unnecessary risk in your opinion. If we want to be black and white riding a bike is a totally unnecessary risk rather than riding you could run, rather than running you could walk and rather than doing any of that could zwift in your living room or walk around your garden (although in true st fashion thats likely what you say you will have been since since last year). I value my mental health and a local ride in lewisham battling traffic isnt going to help, I am in a much better mood after a good bike ride especially after i have spent 50+ hours at home mon-fri.
But, as you seem to be chief of the rules if I "stay local" how far am i allowed to cycle in lewisham in regards to distance? must I stay in my lewisham suburb or can I travel to hither green or lee?
I really think people need to worry about themselves in this instance and not pass judgment on others so much.
600 people a year injure themselves putting trousers on. Zoom is normally only from the waist up. Makes you think...
Lack of cardiovascular fitness and vitamin D deficiency were both being touted as risk factors for poor Covid outcomes. They are also risk factors for SAD, mental health problems, other cardiovascular diseases, cancer etc. These conditions also put a significant strain short, medium and long term on the NHS. So lack of adequate exercise is linked to strain on NHS resources in other areas that are already stretched and/or on hold. Access to sunlight and exercise should surely therefore be at the centre of any Covid policy.
If you're a couch potato then a mile walk may well generate an elevated heart rate but for many less than 20 miles on the bike or a 5-10k run isn't going to deliver any health benefits or even maintain the existing base.
The new variant is "stickier" and more easily transmitted so it seems that we may need more distance between us rather than less and there is a much higher risk of transmission in busy environments.
Current advice is going to end up compressing a lot of people into ever smaller spaces. In densely populated areas the impact could be to exacerbate the spread of the new variant not reduce it as people struggle to pass even 1m apart (alleyways, seafront paths, narrow pavements either side of dual carriageways, etc.)
During lockdown v1 I had never seen our local open spaces so busy and congested, a grey April day would produce as many people out as an average bank holiday despite largely empty car parks. Some of that space (the largest single open part) is now a swamp until March due to the heavy rainfall.
In a very typically over simplistic way our "leaders" and many social media commentators are seemingly conflating distance from your home with dramatically increased risk of one or both of Covid infection or some other disaster that only befalls a tiny % of the population.
It is not of itself being "outside" that is the issue (otherwise we shouldn't go in our garden or open a window) - it is coming into contact with lots of other people and catching Covid from someone who is at an infectious and/or asymptomatic stage of the illness.
I'm not suggesting people should go into the deepest depths of beyond here but there are a plethora of locations that could be used to disperse people seeking to maintain their health and wellbeing over much wider areas and reduce the risk of airborne transmission during exercise. The risk of a given exercise activity is broadly a constant it does not vary with distance from home. I could as easily smash myself on a road ride or a walk at the first T-junction as I could at a point 3, 30 or 300 miles from home.
Offset those other risks against a very few theoretical exercise travel related RTAs it potentially looks counter productive.
Look at Scottish guidance updated yesterday...Much more considered imo...
You can travel for local outdoor sport or exercise such as meeting another person, walking, cycling, golf or running that starts and finishes at the same place (which can be up to 5 miles from the boundary of your local authority area), as long as you abide by the rules on meeting other households.
And
Outdoor gyms can remain open.
Outdoor non-contact sports such as golf and tennis are permitted for all age groups provided this is within a single household group, or the group contains no more than 2 people from 2 different households. Children under the age of 12 from these households do not count towards this number.
pdw
2. Bending the rules doesn’t spread Covid.
Yes it does! In a village quite close to me, someone decided to hold a party on xmas day. Stretching the rules on the numbers allowed to meet. Most of those attending have now developed symptoms and have possibly spread it to others since then.
im adding an unnecessary risk in your opinion.
You're adding an unnecessary risk in fact. And it's against the rules.
But, as you seem to be chief of the rules if I “stay local” how far am i allowed to cycle in lewisham in regards to distance? must I stay in my lewisham suburb or can I travel to hither green or lee?
You already know that you're not supposed to leave your part of the city: and there's really no need to cycle as you're getting all the exercise you need from the gymnastics you're performing to justify your actions.
RP will be rammed – unless the weather is bad then it you might get in a few relatively undisturbed laps..
It was down to acceptable levels by 9/10pm during the last lockdown. Obviously it's a colder and darker proposition this time.
We went at the weekend (on the Tamsin Trail) no records were broken, and it was busy, but still worthwhile.
You can only leave your home to exercise, and not for the purpose of recreation or leisure (e.g. a picnic or a social meeting).
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay-at-home#exercising-and-meeting-other-people
Do we mostly mountain bike for exercise or for fun? Do the health benefits of mountain biking require us to do it somewhere that is fun?
garage dweller - you are picking bits out of the Scottish Guidance to suit - needs looked at as a whole document, you have missed this bit, which is crucial :
'Travel no further than you need to reach to a safe, non-crowded place to exercise in a socially distanced way. '
So most people on here think we are in this situation because of a few people bending the rules and not because the government clearly gave a green light to the South East and London to go out to eat/shop/play/go in each other's house etc etc after the November lockdown? They were all abiding by the rules. Whole load of good that did. I bet a few of the cleaner than clean lot followed those rules, "and still got Covid".
I'm going to make one further comment on this thread which is that there isn't really a need for the kind of abusive and agressive behaviour that some posters are demonstrating on both sides of the discussion.
Some manners when engaging with each other cost nothing.
I get that a lot of people have suffered, lost people, faced weeks with friends and family on ventilators (us included), have close family on the NHS frontline (us included) but there's an appalling lack of empathy and understanding of the complications, fears and frustrations that affect each and every poster and the wider population on this thread. Like it or not the world is bigger than just COVID and the issues deserve to be debated in a courteous manner.
garage dweller – you are picking bits out of the Scottish Guidance to suit – needs looked at as a whole document, you have missed this bit, which is crucial :
‘Travel no further than you need to reach to a safe, non-crowded place to exercise in a socially distanced way. ‘
Sorry I should have given that extra context...
However with the extra bit it does effectively deal with the exact point which I am concerned with in that it facilitates going to an acceptably large open space that is safe and is therefore considerably better than the English guidance, which is not so well or sensibly drafted.
I was not suggesting it was carte blanche to do that (and my apologies if that is what came across) more that the Scottish parliament seem to have got a better angle on it.
^^^^ no worries 🙂
Being based in Central Scotland I'm seeing a lot lot online dialogue where folks are 'justifying' going for 80 mile road rides from home, or going to a certain trail centre when there is similar riding available a lot closer to their home base...
Well at the moment [url= https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20200512-about-bc-news-British-Cycling-Updated-Coronavirus-Guidance-0 ]British Cycling[/url] are struggling with what 'stay local' actually means, but it seems they are talking to the government about it rather than arguing with people in a variety of personal situations online.
FWIW my 1 hour road ride at lunchtime seemed to show that there hasn't been that much impact on traffic levels from Tier 4 so any hope of riding on April's traffic free roads is gone.
You’re adding an unnecessary risk in fact. And it’s against the rules.
Against the guidance maybe, has it become law yet??
You already know that you’re not supposed to leave your part of the city: and there’s really no need to cycle as you’re getting all the exercise you need from the gymnastics you’re performing to justify your actions.
Isn't the guidance "stay local" which itself is open to interpretation you and I may define local as different things. Peckham is about 10mins on a bike from me I still see that as local despite being southwark and not lewisham. If I had all the answers I wouldnt be asking an expert such as yourself.
Here's another question which I hope you can answer as you seem to know the rules inside and out. Start of december had dinner with 5 other friends took public transport there and sat in a pub garden with likely somewhere between 50-100 other people (within the rules). Last weekend (im in T4 / Lockdown) I did about 40mile loop taking in backroads, bridal way and parks. which of those do you suppose has the higher risk of getting covid? Only difference is start of december the pub dinner was "legal" and my bike ride last weekend technically wasnt.
We can all pontificate on this issue as much as we feel and argue our own subjective opinions but all that matters is law. We should never forget laws are enshrined to protect the public and we are that public - governments serve us not the other way round. We have freedoms and they allow us be move speak and act in ways we feel are best served for us as a democracy. like it or not until 'local' is defined in statute, talking England only here, we can go where ever we want -the rest is a matter for your own conscience.
FWIW my 1 hour road ride at lunchtime seemed to show that there hasn’t been that much impact on traffic levels from Tier 4 so any hope of riding on April’s traffic free roads is gone.
So people can't be doing what they did in April then as the roads were very noticeably less busy as no schools open, everyone working at home where it is possible etc,.
Today probably isn't typical. This has taken people by surprise, not least the government, so there will be last minute moving around, shopping, etc. I doubt it'll drop to April levels though
The A9 had traffic, but is noticeably less busy than normal. That said, it isn't April levels....
We can all pontificate on this issue as much as we feel and argue our own subjective opinions but all that matters is law
You're absolutely right but one can still hope that the guidance is followed (at least in spirit if not to the very letter), regardless of whether it is enshrined in law. The law is a very blunt instrument after all, not all things can be effectively legislated against but the Government should be clearer about what is law and what is guidance.
My first thought was to criticse the government for the vague and wishy washy language used in their guidance yet again (if they had defined local this thread would be half as long). But I think it's really difficult to strike a balance when going too far has negative consequences.
One of the only ways to enshrine a hard limit in law would be to set a distance limit which cannot be applied equally to different forms of exercise, different fitness levels and people living in different locations. It can't be written to specifically include exceptions such as someone opting for a longer countryside contract-free bike ride instead of laps around the block weaving between pedestrians. The only remaning option is guidance and hoping that the general public complies where it really matters. And where it doesn't matter - no harm no foul.
It is up to the individual to read the guidance and make their own decisions about what type of exercise has the most benefits/costs ratio. We don't know each other's individual circumstances so we're best placed to judge our own compliance rather than others'. I don't see any use in arguing when it hasn't even been made illegal, people will just dig their heels in and opinions will become more polarised.
Our club put out an interpretation of 'stay local' that was to only ride in the county you live in; from home I can see (and ride into on normally empty trails) two other counties, whereas Google tells me the other end of my county is 54 miles away by bike
I would consider a 50 min / 20km solo jaunt taking in 3 counties as considerably less of a pinkle-take than a 110 mile out and back which requires riding through several towns
That said, and for the foreseeable future I'm minded to turbo in the garage and plod around the village for fitness rather than seeking exciting riding
Please add this to the 43 pages of not having moved anything on in any useful way!
My main sport now is open water swimming and as the only place I can do that now is about 10 miles away.
That to me is accessing open countryside to be able to exercise.
I'm going to be careful though and will be staying well clear of the locals, it is still well within my county.
Like rhino, I can see two other counties from the house, 10km should see a route visiting all three counties.
I was going to have a turbo session this afternoon but my wife has a migraine so I did it outdoors. Reached the heady distance of 2km from home! Saw precisely 3 people, I'd ridden past the house of one of them.
governments serve us not the other way round
Ah, bless! 😉
If you're going to "bend" the guidelines, rightly or wrongly, probably best to do so quietly rather than taking the high ground on social media.
Devil's advocate - There is a distinction between exercise, leisure and recreation. You could argue the mountain biking is more of a hobby, leisure and recreational activity rather than pure exercise. Which is not a permitted reason to leave home, let alone the area. /Devil's advocate
Its all about keeping self and others safe and not increasing risk. This also includes reducing risk of non covid related injury / illness. To relieve the pressure on the NHS.
We're lucky to be allowed out the house at all! (The French weren't for months!)
Getting the woolly impression it's all like the Highway Code again...
"Should" is advisory.
"Must" is law.
Devil’s advocate – There is a distinction between exercise, leisure and recreation. You could argue the mountain biking is more of a hobby, leisure and recreational activity rather than pure exercise. Which is not a permitted reason to leave home, let alone the area. /Devil’s advocate
I think that is a very fair point. There is more than a hint of petulance in the mindset....'but it's not the type of exercise I like to do the mostest!'
The equivalent with walking is going for a walk around the block for exercise or spitting the dummy and saying you are a hill walker so walking around the block like all the other neds is beneath you.
You could argue the mountain biking is more of a hobby,
As you could for jogging, yoga, peleton, zumba, etc. Star Jumps only, unless you happen to enjoy them
As you could for jogging, yoga, peleton, zumba, etc. Star Jumps only, unless you happen to enjoy them
Thats kinda my point, the vast majority of people don't see MTBers ragging themselves in the woods as 'exercise' and quite rightly get annoyed when we get uppity about not being able to get to the trails.
We're very fortunate that we still can, but only for as long as we don't take the piss.
Its not just city parks that are busy. The lake district is rammed with people at the moment.
it isn't now, ambleside was like a ghost town today.
it isn’t now, ambleside was like a ghost town today.
Thats good news at least.
All the shops have been closed down.
even the ****ing post office shuts in the afternoons i found out when i tried to go and post a parcel.
anyway as my current job is in ambleside and its only 12 miles from home i'm seeing it as ok to carry on with my normal tuesday night rides in the hills, could even take the bike to work with me instead of the normal going home for tea first.
theotherjonv
Full MemberAll the shops have been closed down.
Bands won’t play no more.
I doubt it’ll drop to April levels though
+1 our business, like many shut down for a while in April before we could work out how to immpliment covid secure working, now we are just proceeding pretty much as we have done for the past 8 months.
Isn’t the guidance “stay local” which itself is open to interpretation you and I may define local as different things. Peckham is about 10mins on a bike from me I still see that as local despite being southwark and not lewisham. If I had all the answers I wouldnt be asking an expert such as yourself.
Here’s another question which I hope you can answer as you seem to know the rules inside and out. Start of december had dinner with 5 other friends took public transport there and sat in a pub garden with likely somewhere between 50-100 other people (within the rules). Last weekend (im in T4 / Lockdown) I did about 40mile loop taking in backroads, bridal way and parks. which of those do you suppose has the higher risk of getting covid? Only difference is start of december the pub dinner was “legal” and my bike ride last weekend technically wasnt.
You've made it abundantly clear that you have no intention of modifying your behaviour and will make a perverse interpretation of the rules along with a dollop of whataboutery in order to justify your actions. You're part of the problem.
To me local depends on the subject matter.
Buying milk. Live in town probably 500m. Live in mid Wales, maybe 5k. (Crow fly distances).
Buying a car. Maybe 30-40km
Exercise during lockdown. Distance you can get in an hour under your own propulsion.
You’ve made it abundantly clear that you have no intention of modifying your behaviour and will make a perverse interpretation of the rules along with a dollop of whataboutery in order to justify your actions. You’re part of the problem.
Yep I sure am part of the problem. One supermarket visit a week, 10+ hours a day at home everyday part from a bike ride on a Saturday on my own, seeing my family in Wales once last year despite my brother going through a divorce, my best mate losing his mum, and my mum going to hospital at 70+ leaving my step dad on his own, and me and my partner basically living separate lives at the start because she works for the NHS I'm 100% part of the problem. Get a grip dude. Must be nice up in that ivory tower.
Yep I sure am part of the problem. One supermarket visit a week, 10+ hours a day at home everyday part from a bike ride on a Saturday on my own, seeing my family in Wales once last year despite my brother going through a divorce, my best mate losing his mum, and my mum going to hospital at 70+ leaving my step dad on his own, and me and my partner basically living separate lives at the start because she works for the NHS I’m 100% part of the problem. Get a grip dude. Must be nice up in that ivory tower.
Ah, the sympathy vote as justification. I'm not buying.
Ah, the sympathy vote as justification. I’m not buying.
Yeh because I would actually make all that up. To be honest you just sound like an extremely bitter person I feel sorry for you. I'm 100% at ease with my "perverse interpretation" of lockdown rules. I'm gonna go for a bike ride tomorrow at 6am before work and I may actually leave Lewisham!
I’m 100% at ease with my “perverse interpretation” of lockdown rules. I’m gonna go for a bike ride tomorrow at 6am before work and I may actually leave Lewisham!
Yep, I believe that you've convinced yourself that your behaviour is ok. That's the problem with selfish people.
Yep, I believe that you’ve convinced yourself that your behaviour is ok.That’s the problem with selfish people.
And you would be correct I do think it's ok. And I believe your problem is you're extremely bitter. The type person who wouldn't give the kids their ball back if it ended up in their garden. Have a nice evening and hopefully you cheer up soon. 👋
And I believe your problem is you’re extremely bitter.
Bitter about people like you who screw everyone else with their selfish behaviour? Yes, I think so. I realise it's too much to expect you to give a crap about anyone else.
Yep, I believe that you’ve convinced yourself that your behaviour is ok. That’s the problem with selfish people.
It's within the law so ok. You might think that the law should go further but you can hardly blame other people for following it rather than your personal interpretation of what you consider morally right.
It’s within the law so ok. You might think that the law should go further but you can hardly blame other people for following it rather than your personal interpretation of what you consider morally right.
It's not my interpretation, it's the government guidance.
It’s not my interpretation, it’s the government guidance.
The guidance doesn't define local. The legislation doesn't mention it at all. As we can see from the Scottish legislation, or the Welsh legislation earlier in the year, it's perfectly possible to limit travel for exercise to your local area in law, so a deliberate decision has been taken not to. Complain to your MP if you think it should go further but following the law rather than guidance is a perfectly reasonable thing to do even if you don't like it.