[Closed] Lightweight HT, how light?

Sounds about right. My mmmBop alu frame build is an oz under 25 lbs. Crest hope wheelset. Rev forks. A KS dropper. Carbon Haven bars. XT chain set and x9 1x10 shifting. A minion on the front and High Roller on the back. Heavy V12 flats. Built to be fun on the trails rather than to be light, got an XC 29er for that. Though does feel light compared to the FS bikes some of my mates bring for weekends away!

What's that in proper figures? 12.5Kg? My Solaris (1x10) is 12.7Kg without spending silly money getting lightweight components. Quickest hits on getting the weight down would (for me) be:

replace Reverb with standard seat post
replace fork with rigid fork (obviously not a HT after that)
replace handlebar with carbon version and put on lightweight grips.

I reckon I'd be down at about 10Kg with those changes.

Pretty sensible that I reckon, wouldn't have those wheels mind but then my ragley has kind of marginal wheels too, I like the zip. There's a limit to how light you can go while keeping sensible tyres and rims for a bike like this, they get a hard life and there's no point in shedding a lb if it makes the bike not work.

Not sure what mine weighs now, it used to be a bit under 25lbs but some stuff's got heavier... Ragley ti with coil converted Revelations, Roval Traversee wheels, mix of saint, xtr and xt drivetrain, formula the one brakes, KS dropper. And massive shockboard front mudguard 😆 With a change of tyres I can take it xc or enduro racing, bounce it down fort william (slowly!)... Whatever I want really. The only bit that could easily be lighter is the fork but I blew up the air spring and I like the coil a wee bit more, worth the extra 200g or whatever it is.

11.5kg, yes rigid forks and standard post would bring it the other side of 11kg possibly, but I wouldn't enjoy riding it then!

More lightweight but possibly less fun (at least without a bouncy fork and dropper.)

FWIW, ran my Ragley with Flows and Crests. Much prefer it with Crests. As Northwind says, just feels more zippy. If I was going to ride it somewhere properly gnar I might put the flows on, but then I'd probably just take the bouncy bike.

I find mine fun, and don't feel I've made any compromises, but it's a race bike, so it's horses for courses.

If it was a trail bike "no compromises" would have been a different set of requirements (dropper and bigger tyres spring to mind) and the bike weight would be higher. That said... Personally I'd probably go FS for a bike of that ilk.

19lbs/8.6kg FWIW.

Edit: I have taken the compression damper out of my fork, I suspect some would consider that a compromise 😕

My Dialled PA is as light as it's going to get. DT240 on Arch EX, bit of thomson, bit of On one, carbon havens, xt 2x10, Wellgo Mag pedals.

Although I could go tubeless and 1x, I guess, so there is some plausible scope for reductions. 26lbs at the mo.

Seems a strange combo, 24 spoke wheels and tonking great tyres / 34mm forks / 203mm rotors. I'd go for 32 / 32 and take the small weight for strength & solidity.

My Whyte 29CS is around 10Kg out of the box, and plenty fun but not in the way you're looking for I suspect 🙂

Njee, is that the SuperFly? Nice weight.

Njee, is that the SuperFly?

Thanks, it is indeed! Not even the SL frame, which would drop close to a pound. I love it though, great bike!

My HT weighs in at 22lbs (10kgs) built around a £99 SAB carbon frame (Planet X special), 100mm RockShox SID's, XT set-up (1x10 and brakes), carbon bars and seat post, 26" superstar wheels. All up cost less than £800 to build. Could go lighter by changing pedals and going tubeless but suits me fine. It's fast and flickable. Only used for XC and the occasional XC race - wouldn't want to launch it off any big jumps though.

who's got a lightweight but fun HT? What compromises did you/didn't you make?

Ragley Ti with a 2015 Pike set to 140mm, LB carbon rims, Thomson dropper and big fat tyres and brakes, Havoc carbon bars and an old XTR triple. It's sort of evolved that way. Bloody brilliant bike with a mutant, upgraded frame, hence the tapered steerer fork. Still around 26lb with pedals on my digital scale thing.

Compromises? I guess I could have saved grammes by going 1x, but I like having a triple for epic bail-out moments and losing the dropper would lose weight, but at the expensive of functionality. It's been ridden everywhere from Moroccan singletrack, via Lakes epics, local Peak stuff and banged out wee small hours solo laps at 24/12 the other year.

'How light?' is always going to be a relative thing I guess. Personally I don't want a bike that's compromised on rocky, technical stuff. The bit where I didn't compromise, I suppose, is the carbon rims. Light wheels but still wide and reasonably tough, so far, touch wood etc.

A lot of interesting and different builds there! I wouldn't enjoy riding an 8kg bike with no compression damper, I'd rather go CX at that point!

Those Ragley Tis sound like what I'm getting at, pretty much inline with mine.

Point taken on the wheels but they were what superstar had in the sale and have been doing exceptionally well, with the big tyres the abuse never reaches the rim and as Northwind said the zip is noticeable and addictive. Come out of a corner and get straight on the power and you're flying!

Nahhhh, it's nothing like a CX bike.

No, a cx bike has a rigid fork up front, not a pogo stick!

I've still got rebound damping. Just a preset compression level and no lockout. Actually the original lockout lever was so shit the fork feels better for it.

So it's the adjuster you've removed then mot the damper?

No, I've taken the whole Motion Control cartridge out. The rebound is separate.

Right, so you havent got any compression damping at all then? How much did that save weight wise? Genuinely curious here, never heard of people removing cartridges before!

He has, it's just not adjustable. Fairly common amongst the weight conscious types. Sure there's a thread on it somewhere.

Definition of fun and rideable will vary with skill, weight and local trails

Very key.

For the trails I ride I only need a rigid single speed so weight is not going to compare to a front sus geared bike.

Allows me to build a strong bike with no weight weenie parts (XT brakes, Thomson stem/post, Ti frame, SRAM X11 cranks etc,.) while maintaining a light weight ~8KG

Unlike most people I enjoy riding as fast as I can uphill so this sort of bike is perfect

Definition of fun and rideable will vary with skill, weight and local trails

Is true this. My Ragley above, it's built for playing at places with terrain a bit more fun than local. Hence flat pedals, dropper post, 140 forks and Minion's up front, all pushing the weight up. Prefer the XC race bike for flatter, less rocky, local trails. Lighter, more suitable tyres, 29er.

I wanted to build a lightweight "trail" bike, as an ex weight weenie xc type who's started riding gnarlier stuff.

I've ended up with a Scott scale 720 frame, with rebas at 120mm, hope hoops with Stans arch rims. Zee rear mech, xt shifter xtr m985. 1x10. Heavy slx cassette. Xt brakes, 180/160. Renthal 740 alloy bars , and charge lockons

For more xc rides, I put on SPD's, Thomson post, and maybe switch tyres to crossmarks. For more gnar, it has flats, a reverb, and a Hans dampf/ardent tyre combo. It's about 22.5lb in light mode, 23 in "heavy".

Biggest compromise is the fork. It's just a bit rubbish. More weight won't fix that though - more money will!

How much did that save weight wise? Genuinely curious here, never heard of people removing cartridges before

Depends on the fork. On an old Reba World Cup it was about 130g, on a SID RLT a few years ago it was only about 70g, on a Current SID Team it was 147g. 64g for the damper, 83g for the lever and cable.

I've got my Cube Reaction GTC SL down to 19.8lbs(9kg)
Only original parts on it are the stem, forks, brakes, rear shifter and mech and BB.
I need a new saddle so it might just drop under 9kg 🙂
I could still get it lighter if I went for XTR over XT

windyg.....

I have just ordered a 2015 cube reaction gtc sl for £1400!

Out of interest, what have you upgraded, and what for?

Any idea how much the wheels weigh- I was considering buying a set of american classic race wheels...

Impressive if real weight. Photos? What you got on it? Impressions?

Wheels I have Crests on Hope's I could have gone lighter but these are easy to get parts and diy.
KCNC Scandium seatpost
Easton EC70 Carbon bars
Quaxar rotors
Charge Knife saddle
Schwalbe Rocket Ron and Ralph tubeless
M540 SPD's
All titanium bolts where possible
Ritchey WCS foam grips
1x10 setup
KMC X10SL chain
Elite carbon bottle holder
It's also a small 650b frame

£1400 is a good price I think I paid just over £100 more for mine.
I can't remember how much the original wheel weighed, they weren't to bad if I remember about 1800gms I use mine as a winter/mud set.

I bought Lauf forks 😆

Really should get around to screwing it together

Nice weight saving with Lauf forks they only weigh about 1kg don't they?

There going on an Open frame with internal Di2 - divorce is going to me loads

Cheers windyg.

Hargroves are doing 20% off. I ordered the last 17" (29er).

Downside being it's the horrible green colour

There going on an Open frame with internal Di2 - divorce is going to me loads

Be interested to hear how you get on! I'll be honest I've not heard good things.

Last I weighed my HT it was almost bang on 20lbs (3 or 4 years ago). Built round a carbon scale 26" frame.

I've probably knocked another lb off since then (2× driveline, upgraded all the finishing kit. Bars, stem, seatpin, saddle, pedals, and new brakes.)

But I've not weighed it again since, and not really bothered either.

Not had any issues with anything I've ridden it up or down. Including rock gardens 😉

This, as pictured

[img][url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5661/21867492676_134e11749b_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5661/21867492676_134e11749b_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/zjmBHN ]IMG_1058[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/94658862@N08/ ]Martin Robbo[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Weighs a tad under 19lbs, the forks only 670g, I know njee will agree when I say to many people exaggerate the lightness of their bikes, my OO C456 like this

[img][url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7791/16731217784_3b38c08894_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7791/16731217784_3b38c08894_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/rutS99 ]IMG_0839[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/94658862@N08/ ]Martin Robbo[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Is about 25lbs with some pretty light kit on it, I reckon I could drop a Lb or 2, but I don't think I could get it under 20 without spending thousands 🙁

Weighs a tad under 19lbs, the forks only 670g, I know njee will agree when I say to many people exaggerate the lightness of their bikes, my OO C456 like this

**Nods sagely**

I've always said I think it's dodgy scales to be fair. I don't think people weigh a bike and it comes to 24lbs so they think they'll tell everyone it's 20, but a lot of extremely 'optimistic' weights always come out from threads like this

Mrs S has a 15inch Rock Lobster SL.

Easton Ultralight frame, SID's, Hope, XT, Thomson, non oversize, narrow Easton bar/stem, foam grips, Ti SDG Deva saddle, Wellgo mags.

Around 22lb at the mo with tubes.

More than optimistic weights I'm finding interesting what people define as fun bikes, some properly lean racing machines and rigid singlespeeds on here! Personally that singular would be interesting to ride but I'd rather get on my 'heavy' 456 and blast around the woods and hit some jumps for a couple hours!

The idea of the thread was to see some variation but wasn't expecting those extremes, good to see we're not all the same.

Also happy to see my build is in line with others' similar bikes

Nice thing about my scale is that geometry wise, especially with the 120 fork, its a modern trail bike. 68ish head angle, long front centre, short rear centre. Combined with decent tyres, the dropper, wide bars and flats, it's as good going down as my old soul 275. But, it fly's up, and with a couple of small changes, turns into an xc race machine.

I've got a rigid single speed too. That comes in at sub 19, but it's really only fun on singletrack, not on the steeps or the gnarr

Mine is 27(and a 1/2)Lbs, which I'm quite pleased with as it has 3" tyres. Tubes removed and lighter saddle and bar than stock but not bad for a bike with a dropper etc.

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My last "normal" hardtail was a dialled alpine which weighed about the same, normal sized wheels and no dropper or carbon bars. Still you would think it would be lighter than a B+ much prefer the new bike though... as much as I love a steel HT I just don't see the need now I have the Fuse...

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I'm finding interesting what people define as fun bikes

As said earlier, i actually enjoy (fun) going uphill fast and my choice of bike suits the riding I enjoy and the terrain where I live. Nothing would be less fun than a heavy full sus bike but if f I lived in gnarly mountains I would be having a lot less fun on my bike.
Fun is not limited to one type of riding or bike setup which is why the differences are being seen.

As for weight, I weigh each par of the bike separately on very accurate scales so when I say my bike weighs 8.07 KG it really does (bit of a problem being highlighted here....)

[quote="chrishc777"]I'm finding interesting what people define as fun bikesTBH a lot of depends how you ride. I'll quite happily tank through some quite nasty stuff on a nice lightweight XC bike with lightweight XC race tyres, but then I've ridden through the most of the 80's, 90's and only had a couple of years off since I started. So I've done the whole 1.8" tyres at 60 psi for racing, daft steep head tube angles, suspension that doesn't work, bonded aluminium frames where front and rear wheels follow different lines (add that to skinny tyres at 60 psi and it gets interesting). And so on. So I really don't struggle much with line choice, or destroying kit. And it only gets lairy (very quickly) if I make a mistake.

The two guys I did most of my riding with until recently, one is a serial kit smasher, and uses a 35lb beast to do essentially the same sort of riding I do, but slower, yet he goes through rims and tyres at a horrific rate, almost monthly, despite being 15 kilos lighter than me. I usually keep tyres until I get bored with them, and wheels until I upgrade.......

The other guy is the other way, until recently he was riding a *very* second hand WC XC bike, about 10 years old, both tyres almost bald, indexed headset, front shifts were optimistic and often require a stop to jiggle the front mech, cassette was missing some gears in the middle due to a bent carrier. Yet he turned up at one round of the national series elite race 4 or 5 years ago, with no prep or proper training, clears the entire course (only one of three or four to manage it) and finishes 5th, out of 30. Only a couple of minutes down. I've also seen him riding up short flights of steps when he's bored waiting for rides to start....... I've never seen him making a mistake (on the bike, drinking is another matter altogether.)

Who is the latter friend ghostlymachine? That has a whiff of apocrypha about it 😉

As for weight, I weigh each par of the bike separately on very accurate scales so when I say my bike weighs 8.07 KG it really does

Never worked out why, but bikes always seem to weigh more than the sum of their parts!

Cotic bfe, 120 mm Rebas, hope/mavic 719 wheels, rubber queen 2.4/crossmark 2.25 tyres, deore/slx 3x9 drive train, stroker brakes, carbon bars, wellgo mag pedals and stock stem/seatpost/saddle - 26lb exactly.

Never worked out why, but bikes always seem to weigh more than the sum of their parts!

People never quote the error in their measurements. Weigh all the parts seperately and you have to sum all the errors. If you have lots of small parts this can up to be quite a big range. Weight of the final build is probably within this range. I'm sure someone more mathematically competent could do a better job of explaining this!

Cotic bfe, 120 mm Rebas, hope/mavic 719 wheels, rubber queen 2.4/crossmark 2.25 tyres, deore/slx 3x9 drive train, stroker brakes, carbon bars, wellgo mag pedals and stock stem/seatpost/saddle - 26lb exactly.

Funny, that's almost exactly how much my Soul weighs (lighter frame), with lighter wheels + tyres, less gears, lighter brakes, carbon bars, and same fork. 😉

One of us may have dodgy scales, but then these threads always degenerate into such discussions.

Very light bikes are fun, but often fun in different ways and for slightly different things than heavier or more middling bikes, ultimately you'll end up with a bike weight that reflects your personal choices for comfort, reliability and budget.

I love my 19lbs XC race bike, it's ace, I also love my heavier trail bike, it is also ace, I also love my heavy squidgy bike, they are all fun!

Nice thing about my scale is that geometry wise, especially with the 120 fork, its a modern trail bike.

I've got a C456 built to about 25lbs and I think it's a perfect trail bike weight.

A few years ago I went about building a 20lb bike. just coz (Rock Lobster SL, Stans Alpine Wheels, Light tubeless tyres, Carbon Rigid forks etc). It was amazing on the climbs, obviously on the downs there's limitations with the carbon rigids, but barrelling down any straightforward rocky tracks the bike felt like it was being pinged off everything too easily and felt pretty skittish. With heavier wheels and tyres it felt much better.

[quote="njee20"]Who is the latter friend ghostlymachine? That has a whiff of apocrypha about it 😉 😀 It may well do, but seeing as I've not lived (or raced) in the UK for near enough 10 years it's [i]very[/i] unlikely to be anyone you know. And he packed in riding a while ago after a broken arm and a job change.

Aaah, not the UK, I take it back then!

Funny, that's almost exactly how much my Soul weighs (lighter frame), with lighter wheels + tyres, less gears, lighter brakes, 

Interesting 🙂 what is the full spec of your soul?

Interesting what is the full spec of your soul?

Didn't really want to send this thread down the kit comparison route but...

-Soul frame, small, prototype with EBB that adds about 150-200g, but it has thinner walled tubing at front end than a normal Soul and overall frame weight is barely any more than a normal Soul, certainly less than a BFe...
-Diatech cartidge headset
-RS Reba 120mm
-Truvativ Stylo T40 Stem
-Easton Carbon bars
-Bontrager foam grips
-Bontrager RXL Carbon post
-Salsa Liplock seatclamp
-BioFlex Ti/railed saddle
-Shimano UN72 BB + Middlburn ST cranks + SS NW ring (probably concedes 100g to an HT11 setup here)
-SS Nano pedals
-XT 10sp shifter
-SLX 10sp clutched mech
-A cable to the above
-XT 11-36 cassette
-SLX/Deore level chain HG??
-Bontrager Race X Lite Wheels
-Bontrager XR2 tyres 2.2/2.0 (tubeless)
-Hope Mono Mini brakes with Hope 160mm rotors

Have I forgotten anything?

So the EBB and Old school cranks might give away 200-300g so, but then you've got an extra shifter, front mech, chainrings and probably give away at least that in your OEM steatpost and saddle.

I'm pretty sure the weight is about right as my wife has a Charge Duster Skinny that's built with lighter bits again and comes in at 24lbs on the same scales which I'm already a little doubtful of, as that's actually pretty light for something with a steel frame, if the Soul is actually less than it reads then that would put the Duster into 'questionably light' territory on the same scales, and (assuming linear error in my scales which may or may not be a valid assumption) would make my XC race bike weight 'seriously doubtful'

I expect the problem with weighing components is not taking into account cables, ferrules, outers and various greases and oil etc..

Here's one for you weight weenies, how much weight do foam grips save over lockons?

Here's one for you weight weenies, how much weight do foam grips save over lockons?

loads!

foam grips are normally ~15-40g depending on model
lockons (ODI anyway) ~100-140g

@amedias My wife's Soul (26", extra small frame) with a 2x10 drivetrain is 12Kg (plus a few grammes from memory) this is a usable build not one aimed at being ultra lightweight. That was weighed by the shop on their scales, I don't know how accurate those scales are or when they were last calibrated.

As @BANana says: sometimes lightweight isn't actually usable, you need a bit of mass here and there to give you control.

My wife's Soul (26", extra small frame) with a 2x10 drivetrain is 12Kg

This thread a handy reminder that I had some weight wheenieing to do...

[img] [/img]

To...

[img] [/img]

36 grams, over an ounce, all out of the spares box. Reminder that it really is in the detail! Anyone want a barfly mount? 🙂

C456 18"
Knuckleball 777 bars,On One CNC stem, SRAM foam grips, SLX brakes, Hope spiderless 32T cranks, 10 spd XT 11-42 with expander, Zee shifter, Zee and RADR cage, Pro2 Evo on Arch EX with tubeless Nics, Magura Thor 140 AM fork, Reverb, Spoon, SS Nano pedals. 11.5 kg, 25.3 lbs.
Decent weight, could build it lighter with the Reba, but why would you?- The Thor switches down to 100mm travel for climbing. Not been very far on it, but early signs are promising. Feels like a good hooligan bike.

Soul 17" Answer pro taper carbon bars, Superstar Zenith stem, SRAM foam lock-ons, XT brakes, 2x10 XT drivetrain, Reba 120 fork, Superstar Switch on Crests, Bonty XR4 tubeless, Cube alloy seatpost, Scoop, XT Trail pedals. 11.8kg 26lbs. Great all-day bike, bridleway and ST basher.

Scapegoat, out of curiosity are those your only 2 bikes?

Sounds like a decent weight saving on those foam grips.. tempted but do they absorb water alot?

Not a bit, they're closed cell.

That said I run ESIs these days, not as light, but more comfy. Used to like Bontrager XXX Lites, but they do go slippery when wet - gloveless in summer could get interesting.

People never quote the error in their measurements. Weigh all the parts seperately and you have to sum all the errors

Just depends on scale accuracy. If my scales are 1% out and I weigh all the parts separately it is still more accurate than weighing the whole bike on a scale that is 3% out. It doesn't get worse because I am weighing lots of separate parts, % accuracy is % accuracy.

I have very accurate scales for items up to 2kg but don't have anything accurate for 8kg.

Clearly helps to have a liking for spreadsheets and data but also makes it easier to know what difference swapping a part will make.

Scapegoat, out of curiosity are those your only 2 bikes?

No, I've got a Mojo HD.... had some cash burning a hole and a friend had a frame for sale. I am occasionally spoilt for choice, but my mantra is to read up on a trail/ride and choose the bike to suit what I read and my mood. I then go back and try it on a hardtail if I think I can manage it. I'm 51 and need a new hip, so a bit of flying carpet riding helps enormously. Early signs are the C456 is a bit harsh until my hip has been done, but the fork suits it very well.

Just depends on scale accuracy. If my scales are 1% out and I weigh all the parts separately it is still more accurate than weighing the whole bike on a scale that is 3% out. It doesn't get worse because I am weighing lots of separate parts, % accuracy is % accuracy.

I think it's more because most people (not saying you) miss bits! They weigh their frame and headset and then chuck a load of grease in without adding that. Do think compound error plays a part as well though.

I think it's more because most people (not saying you) miss bits! They weigh their frame and headset and then chuck a load of grease in without adding that. Do think compound error plays a part as well though.

Bonkers - I always use ultra-lightweight grease and weigh it before applying to the component. Wiping away any excess can save crucial microgrammes and makes a huge difference to the way the bike rides. Sam's true of chain lube. I also shave off those tiny rubbery whiskers on new tyres, you can feel the extra acceleration from the reduced mass... 😉

Edit: I'm sure some people don't weigh their dust-caps either. Again these small errors can add up to significant weight discrepancy which could get you in deep do-do when the weight weenie police come calling eh?

I think it's more because most people (not saying you) miss bits

That's where the spreadsheet comes in!

I'm sure some people don't weigh their dust-caps either.

You ride with dust caps on? Just think of all that additional rotating mass makes me feel queasy!

You ride with dust caps on? Just think of all that additional rotating mass makes me feel queasy!

It stops heavy dust accumulating on your valves. Can be worth the sacrifice in some conditions. I also carry a duster in my pocket for dry and dusty stuff generally just to keep weight down. Doubles as a rain wipe if it's wet. Saves vital weight in both scenarios.

Indeed, essential weight weenie kit...

[img] [/img]

My ti456 is quite light, how light I don't know, I have a life.

For me a properly light ht is a fun ride , you can blast out of corners and the climbs vanish.
But I can't don't jump much at all. I Can't rember the actual weight of my xc bike as life has got in the way Latley

That's not light.. this is light

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

That's where the spreadsheet comes in!

Unless you weigh grease and lube separately they're not included though one presumes. I know a lot of people do have a 'misc' figure tor that reason.

Never done a spreadsheet though!

stevenmenmuir - Member
My ti456 is quite light, how light I don't know, I have a life.

I'd say you've got life/work balance all wrong if you can't make time in your life to weigh your push bikes. It's a bi-annual event in my household. I strip down, clean and rebuild all of my bikes twice a year, before weighing them. I like to remind myself just how light they are!

I have a life alright and a few seconds of that life is taken up weighing a bike part each time i buy one and then noting it. I have probably spent more time replying on this thread than I have on weighing parts...

Tricky, have you got a build list for that niner?!

It's from a MTBR port/thread on the weight weenies board maybe 4/5 years ago at least

Mattock, or matcock or something along the, limes was the username

A rigid SS with Furious Freds? Meh, show bike.

http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/finally-13s-656281.html

He obviously rides it, so fair play to him. Grinding half the wings off your pedals is definitely a step too far for me! 22-12 gearing too, quite a clever way to save weight, but imagine it feels a bit "lumpy".