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rightplacerighttime - MemberIt's 3:50pm just now and it's getting dark. Where's the benefit to people who live in the north and finish at 5?
Try thinking about how it might work on other days of the year than today.
Posted 2 minutes ago # Report-Post
OK then 21st June where I live (roughly the half way point between Lands End and John o Groats.)
Sunset @ 21:27
End of civil Twilight @ 22:23
It is light enough until 10:30pm to ride quite happily with out lights and you want to move it until 11:30pm? No thanks.
We don't get dark enough here for astronomical twilight for almost 3 months of the year and in the middle of summer it looks like the sun is going to rise in the north on a clear night anyway.
why do people insist on judging this idea by the effect it will have in winter?
"oh no, it'll be dark in the morning"
yes, yes it will, it already is, it's winter.
just think about the extra hour of useful daylight you'll have in the evening during March, April, August, September and October.
(November, December, January, February it's dark more or less all the time, it's WINTER)
(May, June, July, it's light more or less all the time, it's summer)
once we're past mid-summer the hours of daylight shift so fast that pretty soon (mid september-ish) we're racing the clock to fit in a ride after work.
thanks for the heads up i have asked my mp to ignore this campaign and any others backed by the hard of thinking.
smuttiesmith - Member
It is light enough until 10:30pm to ride quite happily with out lights and you want to move it until 11:30pm? No thanks.
Exactly right smuttiessmith!
The problem with the lighterlater idea is that it only goes half way.
It's already light enough on a summer evening but dark too early in winter.
Surely it would be better if next spring we put the clocks forward as usual but then leave them there forever and never put them back again.
That way the nice summer evenings would stay the same and the nasty winter ones would be slightly less nasty, and everyone would be happier, our carbon emissions would be less, our road traffic accidents would be fewer and most importantly the clock in my car would be right all year round instead of just half the time.
Sorted.
Chris_TBG
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Doesnt get rid of thd issue of it not getting light until 10 am in sCotland. dark for both rush hours rather than just the evening one
Smuttiesmith,
You've moved from one extreme to the other (quelle surprise), but as has been pointed out above it's not so much the winter or summer that this will affect, but the spring and autumn.
Why don't you have a look at a date in early May, or late August?
Lobby your employer to let you work 8 - 4 instead.
Jeremy: 'but it'll be dark in winter'
yes Jeremy, it's WINTER.
sunrise at 8.40* is hardly ideal for rush-hour/school run/milkmen/posties as it is.
everyone i know is already at work by then, get to work you slackers!
(it's already dark for both commutes)
(*8.20 at the start of Dec, and again by mid-jan)
Why don't you have a look at a date in early May, or late August?
Because it's the Winter & Summer where it'll have the biggest impact positive or negative, there's no point highlighting where it'll have minimal effect.
e.g. You chose to highlight the Summer evening benefit in the OP rather than Spring or Autumn
sunrise at 8.40* is hardly ideal for rush-hour/school run/milkmen/posties as it is.everyone i know is already at work by then, get to work you slackers!
(it's already dark for both commutes)
(*8.20 at the start of Dec, and again by mid-jan)
Don't know where exactly those times are for but using those dates for somewhere in the middle of the UK - say Leeds - civil twilight on 1/12 starts at 07:19 & ends at 16:32
For 31/12 it's 07:41 & 16:38
[i]nickc - so at teh moment itsw lightish in morning rushour and dark at evening. Under lighter later it would be dark for both. Thats supposed to be an advantage>[/i]
well, not really, it would be lighter at the end of the day for a start, (as it will be an hour later than presently) and at the very least light-ish/getting lighter at the start. surely?
those times are for edinburgh.
and lighter later will have little effect in winter - cos it's dark all the time anyway.
it'll have little effect in summer - cos it's light all the time anyway.
in Mid-winter Edinburgh gets 6 hours of daylight, and when i say 'daylight' i mean that the sun is above a theoretical horizon for 6 hours, whether or not there's any daylight depends whether there's a small hill or some cloud cover in the way)
anyway, why stop at Edinburgh? - why be so southern-centric? - why not base our daylight management strategy on the requirements of Lerwick?
i added my vote!!!! 🙂
awhiles - so you want us to have both rush hours in darkness rather than just one? Thanks.
The timings we have at the moment are teh preferred option for most of us
no, my point is that you/we aready have both commutes in the dark.
i'm on my way to work at 7.40, as i suspect are most people, give or take a bit.
that simply is not true.
Perhaps we could have separate time zones? Wouldn't be much of an issue, other countries seem to manage
It'd be far better to campaign to work flexible hours, starting your day at 8am and finishing at 4 rather than 9 until 5 would have much the same effect.
Not to mention if people mixed up their working hours a bit commuting times would be cut.
i'm on my way to work at 7.40am, i suspect most people do similar.
this is already 1 hour ahead of sunrise in Edinburgh - on Dec 20th
if i lived in Edinburgh, i ALREADY would be commuting to and from work in the dark.
(i already do here in sheffield, on Dec20th, which is the date we're using if TJ wants to base our daylight management strategy on the shortest day)
scotland needs its own timezone.
france is nearer to me than scotland and both have different money to mine too! 🙂
i want more evening ride light 🙂 🙂
That's what I'm thinking Jedi. 😀
i prefer to go for a ride before work
if you could really add an hours sunlight i would be well up for it, but changing the display on your watch will not achieve that.
Correct.
But given the choice I'd like mine later for after-work riding. I'd be quite hppy at this time of year to have dawn at noon and dark at 10pm. May be in a minority there though.
Well, it's progressed a bit.
[url] http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/dec/03/daylight-savings-bill [/url]
So my neighbour can mow his lawn at 1130pm in the summer instead of 1030?
No thanks.
Lobby your employer to let you work 8 - 4 instead.
Totally agree why mess about with everyone's time. Sure if there is wide spread adoption of these hours after that then your case is strengthened. Plus this is considerably more likely to happen.
once we're past mid-summer the hours of daylight shift so fast that pretty soon (mid september-ish) we're racing the clock to fit in a ride after work.
Just a thought...
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I don't understand why Northern folk moan all the time. Perhaps it's the effect of putting up with erratic daylight hours!? 😉
Daylight hours are quite predictable - as is the whining from down south
ditch_jockey:
riding-lights are indeed an excellent idea, i have some, they're ace.
but they don't really help at the bmx track, or people having a kick-around in the park, or outdoor climbing, or sailing, or ... etc.
this brilliant country of ours is (not?) dealing with an alarming increase of stupidity related fatness.
i don't know how many fat people would do half an hour of exercise 2 or 3 times a week if they had a bit more time to do it in - but one way to find out is to give it a go.
how many fat people are there in the uk? - about 30,000,000? if 1% were persuaded to turn off X-factor and go for a walk every now and then, that would be 300,000 less fat people, that's 300,000 people who don't risk getting their feet amputated through diabetes related complications.
how many teenage boys are there in the uk? 4million? how many more will go to bed knackered because they've been razzing round the bmx track for an extra 3 nights a week, 6 months of the year? - rather than getting listless, bored and (self)destructive because it's dark and the track doesn't have flood lights.
etc.
yes, it will get dark in winter - it already does. But we also have 'excess' daylight in the mornings for much of the year which we don't make much use of, i don't honestly know if changing the clocks will change much, but i think it's worth trying.
it's a very cheap fix to some very expensive problems, and if it doesn't work, we can undo it quickly and cheaply.
I still don't get the problem and I live in Scotland.
I'm up at 7-8am each day. It's dark. I have 2 hours at most to get to work or uni- it's only just light when I arrive, but the rush hour is still dark. Making it dark an hour later makes naff all difference.
In the evening, say I finish at 5, at least it's only just got dark. And in January/February it'd be light til 6, giving me a chance to do something with my evening that just wouldn't be done in the morning.
What do all the people against this idea do between 8 and 9am that needs so much halflight?
Real jobs?
surely people with 'real' jobs are at work by 8? or working shifts so none of this would affect them...
ahwiles - Memberthis brilliant country of ours is (not?) dealing with an alarming increase of stupidity related fatness.
BST was introduced in 1916. The problem of obesity has increased since then. Therefore, I submit that just using GMT all year will reduced the problem of obesity.
working hours in general are 9-5. At the moment in scotland its light to get to work dark after.
If we change the clocks its dark for both. NO advantage only disadvantage
ahwiles - Member
surely people with 'real' jobs are at work by 8? or working shifts so none of this would affect them...
IT.WAS.A.JOKE.
yeah, so was mine, a subtle dig at TJ - cos he's a shift worker innit.
(who are these 9-5'ers of whom he speaks? - i know plenty of 8-5'ers...)
I usually start work at 8.45 and it's, for the purposes of doing anything, dark then. Why not bump it back an hour and let the rest of the country reap the benefits?
working hours in general are 9-5. At the moment in scotland its light to get to work dark after.If we change the clocks its dark for both. NO advantage only disadvantage
....for scotland. Quite a lot of advantages for the rest of us. Aka the majority of the population.
Daylight hours are quite predictable - as is the whining from [s]down[/s] [s]south[/s] up north
Fixed that for you