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OK, so a bump for an additional question. I still don't have this ****'s address. I need this in order to start the small claims court proceedings. The police are saying they can't give it to me because of data protection! This seems wrong and I'll challenge it with them.
What other options do I have? I know his name, DOB (the police would give me that, believe it or not), insurer and car registration plate.
Does your house insurance have legal cover ?
Or approach one of the no win no fee solicitors.
Firstly aa for name and address - surely tjis counts as a rrason for the DVlA to hand it over.
Secondly - please, please check if you have legal cover on your car inaurance, house insurance etc.
A few years back i had some totally unrelated issues but someone suggested trying my house insurance legal cover.
I got full use of an excellent solicitor, helped me no end in a sticky situation.
Any legal cover you havecwitjcany policy, or even as a perk through your empkoyew could be useful.
Under utilised resource for many, many people I think.
The data protection sounds like bollocks to be honest.
When I was hit by a little shit in his car, he drove off. I had the vehicle, reg, description of the driver, knew where he worked etc. Police gave him a visit, he denied it and they didn't bother looking any further.
Couple of weeks later I got a letter explaining that they'd finished the investigation and in this letter it had his full name and address! I was fed up so just ripped it up and threw it in the bin.
Please check your home insurance for legal cover.
If not, just unleash the dogs.
https://www.thebikesolicitors.co.uk/
My home insurance has legal cover but it's a £250 excess. I was trying to avoid that, although the net gain might make it worthwhile. Small claims court is £60.
The amount of effort and stress you've related on here is worth the £250. And if you go you're own route, there will be more.
Please go to your home insurance and get a solicitor to do what they are good at....
The amount of effort and stress you’ve related on here is worth the £250.
You are absolutely correct in that. At the moment I am trying to battle a rather blinkered attitude about getting 'justice' which certainly doesn't involve me being £250 out of pocket. I know from a pragmatic perspective that is not the right attitude! At the moment I can't shake the feeling the even a "win" after instructing a lawyer (at a cost of £250) would feel like a partial defeat, and I suppose there's always the small risk of a full defeat.
Perhaps in the healthy middle ground I offer a retort to the insurer and explain that unless they pay up I'll soon be instructing a lawyer? I feel like they'll just laugh at that since most people won't follow through with that sort of threat.
Option C is to claim for the bike on the home insurance. Perhaps they'll just write off the whole bike and offer me new-for-old? Has anyone claimed for a damaged bike on home insurance?
just send the letter before action to the person involved. Be prepared to go to small claims but I have done thois twice - once to a rogue trader once to edinburgh council and a soon as they go the letter before action they paid up,.
Small claims ( certainly in Scotland) there is almost no liability for costs even if you lose - and you won't lose anyway as a hit from behind is as near to presumed liability as we have in the UK ie the person who was the behind road user has to show why its not their fault as it is presumed to be their fault.
Its not a great deal of hassle to do small claims and again - in edinburgh there is a CAB withing the court building to help you
He doesn’t know the address TJ
NO great issue to find it I would have thought - does he have the reg no? or he should be able to get it from the police
he should be able to get it from the police
blimey TJ, the whole point of this latest update was that the police won't give him the address, so he can't start a small claim! It was a maximum of 10 posts up!
Yes - and he needs to go back to the police to insist on the address - they guy drove off after the accident thus did not fufill his legal obligation to give his details.
Formal complaint to the cops over failure to prosecute would be my first step - because if they had prosecuted then the address would be available.
Once you have his address...
Small claims court is really easy. I did it with Paisly Freight after they royally ****ed up a delivery. Cost me £104 to submit a claim, which was really easy, I was claiming £400. My main objective with the claim was to cause them as much agro as I could after having them mess me about so much. If you are on solid ground, and it sounds like the OP is, this is a good way to go, that fee was all I stood to lose (They backed down and settled the day before the case was due) That was Scotland mind
As someone said above the burden of proof is much lower for a civil claim, 'balance of probabilities' and I would have thought a rear-end collision would way heavily in he OP's favour.
But you do need an address. Electoral role if you have his name? Assuming he's local.
Also, if you want to cause him agro, and I would, then pursue the failing to stop thing as far as you can, the chap above who was saying about failing to provide details was onto something there.
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Also, OP you said you've done this junction a couple of hundred times, is it a commutte? ie, same time, same day, pretty often?
I see the same people day in day out on mine, I'm sure they wouldn't mind me stopping them to ask 'did you see anything?' Yes, I know the police should be doing this but they appear to be useless twunts
The claim has to be against the individual, it is then subrogated to the insurer. There is no choice.
Al,
I missed your response on this. Since 2002 there has been a right to pursue the insurer directly in road traffic matters.
I would expect to see the insurer named as a second respondent on the case (I’m not sure if that rules it out of simplified procedure / small claims) but the courts desire is that the case never makes it to court so naming the party that is likely to take a pragmatic decision and settle is surely logical - only telling some stubborn **** that you are taking it to court is likely to be more protracted. If you can’t actually name a second respondent copying them on the correspondence may achieve a similar result - you want it to move from the “ignore” pile to the “make it go away” pile.
That all said the OP has legal insurance - so this is easily sorted. As I understand it the £250 excess would only normally come out your pocket if you lost - otherwise it’s one of the costs they will expect to recover from the other side? I’ve never claimed on legal insurance so may be wrong. I certainly wouldn’t be going to the hassle of this to save £250.
With regard address, I’m also not convinced police can’t give it to you but DVLA will for a small fee (which you can add to your claim). TJ is in dreamland if he thinks a prosecution would have been a straightforward way to get the details - firstly cases typically take six months to reach court (longer just now as most courts not sitting for summary cases), then you need to know the case is happening and when (there is no requirement for anyone to tell the complainant unless and until they might be called to give evidence and a trial diet is fixed). Then you need to ask the court for their public record of the case. And that all assumes that the prosecutor doesn’t take the perfectly competent decision to offer a fixed penalty, which if accepted does not create a public record of the accused’s address. Or indeed, the prosecutor doesn’t decide there is not sufficient evidence or not in the public interest (their decision not yours) to proceed, before a case becomes public.
I imagine that the solicitor will be well versed in extracting the information from police, dvla, etc and so will make faster progress anyway.
good points Poly. I must remember to have more coffee before posting. Obviously not at my sharpest this morning
Have been fobbed off by an insurance company before despite having legal cover. Would definitely read the very small print to see if there's any play on words/interpretations that could help. Have you pursued the police to make it clear that you're not being fobbed off? Could your MP help? The BMA?
As regards £250 excess, well I'd be looking to recoup that via damaged shoes, damaged glasses, damaged clothing, damaged helmet, damaged gloves, damaged bike accessories etc. Accept that you'll need the stamina of an ironman athlete to reach your goal of a satisfactory conclusion.
You can get his address from the DVLA. Costs £10 IIRC.
You can add all the costs for your small claims to can you not.
Sorry not read all the replies but I can't see why you wouldn't just get the no win no fee involved straight away? No reason for this to get your blood pressure up, all you need is to call them, give your version of events and photos of the bike then let them handle it.
Sorry not read all the replies but I can’t see why you wouldn’t just get the no win no fee involved straight away? No reason for this to get your blood pressure up, all you need is to call them, give your version of events and photos of the bike then let them handle it.
I don't believe it's as easy as that. They will only take something on if it's pretty much a certainty that they would be successful. Love your optimism though!
I used to be an ambulance chaser.
I've not read everything in this thread but some comments are right. There is a presumption with a rear end shunt that the rear ender is at fault. It doesn't reverse the burden of proof however. But it tips the balance your way
I'd download a 'subject access request' letter to the police and send that off requesting the address for service again.
I'd send a letter before action/letter of claim to the driver but c/o his insurer name and address. Give him/them 28 days to respond
He or they won't respond so send a further letter giving him 7 days to respond otherwise you ll issue and ask for his full address for service and so he can be named defendant otherwise you'll issue against them directly as RTA indemnity insurer. And then ask for address for service otherwise you'll issue against them at their registered office. Then issue after the time limit
You need to show that you've done everything reasonably practicable to identify the defendant driver.
Also ask for the registered keeper from the DVLA, as you have the reg plate
Interesting poly cheers. I worked in professional negligence not this area.
Give Cycle Law Scotland DV a phone. I know you aren’t in Scotland but they would at least give you some advice.
I’d download a ‘subject access request’ letter
Subject access request only gives you a right to your own information, anyone else's should be censored out. The ICO advice prior to May 2018 was that subject access is not an appropriate alternative to discovery.
Thanks for all the advice so far.
Subject access request only gives you a right to your own information,
This is correct. I went through that process, they're supposed to deal with it within 28 days but it took 2 months and the information they gave ultimately was v sparse. They wouldn't even give me the photo they took of damage to his car. Basically the subject access request is only there to satisfy data protection regs and wasn't worth bothering with. The insurer and / or the small claims court can request the police statements / evidence, though. His insurer have not done this.
You can get his address from the DVLA. Costs £10 IIRC.
This is useful to know, thanks.
However, to add another layer of problems, I know that the driver is insured but is not the registered keeper / owner of the car. I think the DVLA can provide the registered keeper's name / address but that won't help me serve a small claims court notice?
Could your MP help?
So yes, I have written to my MP who has actually been very good so far - they've written a very strongly-worded letter to the Chief Constable demanding to know why this wasn't assessed as an assault. I don't know how far that will go but I feel like they've been in my corner when no one else involved in the process has.
Sorry not read all the replies but I can’t see why you wouldn’t just get the no win no fee involved straight away? No reason for this to get your blood pressure up, all you need is to call them,
I don't think it's possible to recoup costs from the other side in this scenario. The court processes changed a few years ago to make it harder for 'no win, no fee' outfits to operate. I believe there is a distinction between personal injury (where you can claim legal fees from the other party) and merely damage to property where it's not possible to do that - I.e. in my case legal fees would be taken out of whatever settlement I potentially would get - which isn't much more than a few hours' work for a lawyer.
I'd be very happy to be corrected on this point.
I’d send a letter before action/letter of claim to the driver but c/o his insurer name and address. Give him/them 28 days to respond
He or they won’t respond so send a further letter giving him 7 days to respond otherwise you ll issue and ask for his full address for service and so he can be named defendant otherwise you’ll issue against them directly as RTA indemnity insurer. And then ask for address for service otherwise you’ll issue against them at their registered office. Then issue after the time limit
You need to show that you’ve done everything reasonably practicable to identify the defendant driver.
This sounds like the right thing to do. Any chance you could flesh out the individual steps involved? I don't really understand a few of the terms you've used. Thanks.
If you are going to use a lawyer under your insurance then get them to do all the work.
I know that the driver is insured but is not the registered keeper / owner of the car.
Damn, that's bad news, but I'm sure whoever owns the car would be thrilled to get a letter outlining the detail of how their vehicle was being used, especially if it is his employer. 😈
They might give you his details, and it'd piss him off knowing you were still pursuing it.
If the RK is their employer can you send the court papers, clearly marked as such to him c/o his employer. Or do they have to contain his home address? Or issue the papers on the company as it was their vehicle and possibly their insurance then that you're wanting to claim against? I don't think I'd want my boss coming to me and asking why she's been given a court summons for deliberately driving into the back of a cyclist and then driving off?
Might be worth calling the Motor Insurers Bureau, they provide an untraced service for hit and runs. Don't know whether they could help in this situation but they would know the process to follow and might be able to advise.
UPDATE:
I got a two cheques this week from Esure. One for the full amount for the damage to my bike, and a second £50 'gesture of goodwill' for screwing me around. The whole process took over a year.
Esure were a total nightmare to deal with as a cyclist. Uncontactable, never replied to emails, repeatedly asking for documents / evidence I'd already supplied then (after all that) denying that a collision even took place and that they considered the case closed. Finally, they claimed another insurer should pay and gave me some details of a company that doesn't exist. I presume the driver was feeding them this false information but they parroted it to me. I presume they are used to having these sorts of conversations with other claims adjusters rather than uninsured individuals. It was only when I got hold of one of their (admittedly quite helpful) customer service people via Twitter that things changed.
I didn't use my home insurance's legal assistance expenses although if I'd done this from the start it would have been far easier. I'll pay the £250 excess next time because the stress of dealing with this has been pretty awful.
Anyway, it's a good result. I got paid and hopefully that scum has to pay extra insurance for the next few years. No criminal charges though, I'm deciding whether to go back to the police and ask them to review this.
One last thing: WWSTWD? A direct replacement for my damaged CdF frameset was priced at £499 last year (which is what I requested from Esure in March last year). I explained recently that the price has now gone up to £599 and due to their delay they should now pay me the £599. I'm not sure what the legal position on that would be? Do they have a duty to put things right for me at the time of the accident or at the time of settlement? As it happened, I bought a different frameset last year, but I feel such animosity towards Esure I want to squeeze them for the extra £100. Too petty?
If you'd bought the frame for £499 at the time and this was a reimbursement then I'd say leave it. But can you buy a replacement with the £499 that they've given you? If no, then you haven't been properly reimbursed.
Good result (even if very very slow and stressful).
Although I have never used their insurance, I am with British Cycling and am insured through them. From what I hear insurance companies will settle quicker if they are dealing with other insurers or legal bods, and make the process frustrating for Joe Public so they eventually lose interest.
I think it costs me £32 / year or something like that. Cycling UK would be similar
So I have an apology to make to eSure - it wasn't eSure at all. They've been dealing with a completely separate home insurance claim and have been really great (but that's why I had them on my brain). In fact, that claim was sorted in 9 days from reporting it to cheque in my hands so big thumbs up to eSure. And a big D'Oh from me 😀
Privilege insurance are the charlatans here. Sorry eSure!
If you’d bought the frame for £499 at the time and this was a reimbursement then I’d say leave it. But can you buy a replacement with the £499 that they’ve given you? If no, then you haven’t been properly reimbursed.
I bought a different frameset for £299 last year when I wasn't at all sure I would be getting any compensation from the tools at Privilege and needed a commuter bike. As it happens, I really like it (Sonder Camino) so I won't change it for a bit.
Chalk it up to experience, sulk about it for one evening, then wake up the next day and get on with living. Life it too short.
Jeez, not Privilege again. They tried to dick me over just for cancelling my car insurance once (like you I only got any assistance when I vented my annoyance on Twitter) and I’m fairly sure I’ve seen at least one or two threads on here which involved them dicking over other people too.
Bargepole, wouldn’t, etc.
Privilege used to use Nigel Havers in its adverts. Given his opinions on cyclists that alone would ensure I would never ever give them a penny.
I hope you get a good outcome, however, if not, take whats left of your bike, hunt his car down and knock seven bells of the proverbial out of it and glibly state it clearly wasn't you...
Really hope you get a positive outcome as its another example of cars used as weapons by people who can't control themselves.
if not, take whats left of your bike, hunt his car down and knock seven bells of the proverbial out of it and glibly state it clearly wasn’t you…
Not really my style, but as it happened, I saw the car a couple of weeks ago in my village, not 500yds from my house. Quite a coincidence given that the incident happened ~6 miles away in the city centre. The old boy driving it was the father-in-law who was in the car at the time of incident but not the angry driver. He was visiting a nursing home. I just felt sorry for him. Presumably his wife's in a nursing home and he has an asshole of a son-in-law.
Interestingly, the car was mangled with a huge scrape down one side and more dings in the bumper. It looked a mess. I figure the old guy is maybe not a good driver. So any damage I could have inflicted wouldn't have really changed it too much anyway! Plus, I don't really have any beef with the old guy. He lied to police to protect his son-in-law, but he's not the one with an anger problem.
I still don't know where the driver (or owner) lives but it's no longer that important.