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Just get a job closer to home. Or move house.
Then buy one..?
I would, but I don't want one.
Just get a job closer to home. Or move house.
Can't.
My industry and line of work is primarily based in central London and Canary Wharf, and property in Central London/Canary Wharf is on the wrong side of f'ing expensive.
McHamish - I don't envy you. Isn't there anything you could do to improve your lot? Move out of The Smoke? Change jobs? Push your employer for flexible working and work at home/another office (if you work at a large enough organsiation)? Eat a sizeable breakfast, pump yourself full of Espressos and commute your 26km in the morning?
I do a 52 mile round commute once or twice a week and it's a bit of killer getting started at 6:30am, but after the first 10 mins I wouldn't change it!
You can.
I would, but I don't want one.
Sounds like you could really use one though. I don't particularly like the things but if it meant I could choose between a nasty tube commute or a bike ride I'd be there like a shot.
I struggle with long sentences = I'm not reading all that stuff, a somewhat unkind (sorry) way of saying you aren't prepared to plough through four pages of stuff when you come late to a thread.
GG you gonna be useful on this thread or just distill everything to two useless words?
You can.
ok.
The level of car obsession on this forum never ceases to amaze/dissapoint me. Lots of bull being talked on both sides of the argument. But the figures you can't get away from are that more than 2000 people every year are killed by motor vehicles. Oh and that other little "fossile fuels running out" problem, maybe consider climate change while your at it. car love argument is starting to look a little shaky eh?
And I'm not saying ban cars outright, I'm saying sort out transport properly.
I'll say it again. Get a job closer to home, or move house. Just don't whinge when there is something you can do about the situation.
Sounds like you could really use one though. I don't particularly like the things but if it meant I could choose between a nasty tube commute or a bike ride I'd be there like a shot.
I'm contemplating getting some road tyres for my MTB (it's an FS but I can lock out the suspension) and trying the long commute. I don't really like riding on busy roads in London, but I'd get used to it I suppose.
If it's not too bad maybe I could justify a decent road bike to make it easier.
My job is sooooo busy at the moment though...doing long days too often! Not sure if I could handle a 25k morning and evening too!
I'd love to find a relaxing career that doesn't include working in London (such as photography - I like that), but it's not as easy as that.
Unfortunately trains and buses don't run on fresh air... I'd like to see their CO2 per passenger mile - once you figure in all the empty off-peak use, and the inefficiency of power generation and distribution for electric trains then I can't see it making particularly green reading.
I'll say it again. Get a job closer to home, or move house. Just don't whinge when there is something you can do about the situation.
Brilliant. Why didn't I think of that.
Thanks for your help. I'm going to quit today.
Honestly, Bromptons are great fun for sprinting around London - quick steering and acceleration plus upright position for better visibility.
Honestly, Bromptons are great fun for sprinting around London - quick steering and acceleration plus upright position for better visibility.
Maybe I'll see if I can borrow one.
Thanks for the [u]useful[/u] contribution to the discussion.
I don't live in London but I visit fairly frequently on business. My observation as someone reasonably neutral (being a cyclist and a car-driver) is that while no doubt a significant proportion of car v bike accidents are the fault of the car driver there must also be a lot where the cyclist is at fault, given the very, very low regard a lot of London cyclists appear to have for their own safety given the way they ride.
Why don't you then? It's your choice. Go on, get a new job, close to home, ride your bike there every day. It is a free country after all.
Sorry to hear that OP, but to put it into perspective, in 1992 a rider crashed at the MK Bowl circuit races and suffered the exact same injuries as your friend.
I'd also like to point out that there are many who have no option but to use a car to commute. I've also come to the conclusion that many of the STWers here are office based and have facilities to clean up after a ride in.
Two example just from my familly. I have to use a car because I carry goods, and to many I just look like a bloke using a car for commuting purposes only. My wife could commute in, but couldn't commute back again because of her hours.
Cars though! problem is we want the best of both worlds but not the bit inbetween. We want the money that the cities offer us, but we don't want to live in them. So we live in villages, which in turn turns them into dead useless chocolate box villages because every day we take ourselves and our money elsewhere.
But that's freedom of choice which every man on here advocates, except from the freedom of choice when it comes to using a car.
And I'm sorry to say it, but the Jumping red lights thread is still in the back of my head.
McHamish - Southwest trains rent Bromptons - that is why you occasionally see ones in SWT colors.
Check the lost property area at Waterloo.
Unfortunately trains and buses don't run on fresh air... I'd like to see their CO2 per passenger mile - once you figure in all the empty off-peak use, and the inefficiency of power generation and distribution for electric trains then I can't see it making particularly green reading.
It's all relative though, compared to cycling and walking then yes, it won't look good. Compared to private car use it's entirely dependent on the examples you choose, e.g. electric train powered on electricity generated from renewable sources at peak capacity compared to a diesel one running at 11:00pm. Plus it's often forgotten that fossil fuels have to be dug out of the ground, porcessed and transported to where they're going to be used. With a network of petrol stations this is going to be vastly more energy intensive than shipping it all to a lower number of consupmtion points (power stations). Then you've got the energy required to build the things in the first place, recycle them after they've reached the end of their lives think how many trains there are compared to cars, the relative sizes of each of them and the length of their lives. This is before even considering the infrastructure on which they run - roads and railways, stations and car parks etc...
Good luck on finding figures for all of that!
Cool - don't let the steering freak you out! Relax and look ahead and they only start getting a bit hairy once you're the far side of 30mph.
The London commute is rough but you never know what might turn up in the future. Having my clown bike knocked almost an hour off my daily travel time though.
But the figures you can't get away from are that more than 2000 people every year are killed by motor vehicles.
Everything has risks. I've driven 300k+ miles and I've never been injured, never mind killed.
I bet if I did 300k miles on a mountainbike I'd be dead. 🙂
Cars aren't dangerous, they're just common (because they're useful).
yep - watch that twitchy folding bike steering - if allowed it will whip round quick and then dump you promptly straight downwards - which is how I broke my collarbone and haven't cycled for 6 months 🙁
To the OP, I hope your friend makes a speedy recovery. A friend of mine was run over by a dustbin lorry whilst commuting in central London, and I mean RUN OVER - he almost lost his leg from the knee down - hasn't ridden on the road since. I don't think I should be asking for a ban on dustbin lorries. Accidents do sadly happen. Ride defensively, obey the Highway code and assume every vehicle hasn't seen you is my philosophy.
Having just come back from Amsterdam, somewhere with proper public transport, we used trains and trams exclusively. Traveled with the family to Wageningen for an evening at a cost of 83 Euros return for 70km. Now a hire car plus fuel would have been a little cheaper for the four of us. But the trains just work. Amsterdam to Schiphol is 4 Euros, Heathrow express... £18 (single). That's just embarrassing.
I think public transport boils down to culture and capacity. We don't have either in the South East.
I'll say it again. Get a job closer to home, or move house.
That can actually be quite difficult to actually do though.
And it's all very well to accuse us of greed for wanting the money that cities offer, but it's not like there are lots of low paid jobs in the countryside is it? There are not that many jobs of any kind.
Unfortunately trains and buses don't run on fresh air... I'd like to see their CO2 per passenger mile
Did you google for those stats? I'm sure I've seen them.
I like this forum it generally contains useful info and experience about mountain bikes/biking in general, but theres a lot of self righteous pompus balls spouted on it a lot of the time.
To answer the OP, I drive to work because I enjoy it, and can afford to do it. If I enjoyed cycling to work as much or more, then I'd do that instead. These are the same reasons as why I go mountain biking, and do many other things, that no doubt lots of people on here would consider unethical/environmentally unfriendly/right wing/left wing/pointless etc (delete as you find appropriate). I dont have a reason that could be considered 'worthy' or righteous, and nor do I need one.
A lot of people on here need to learn some tolerance towards others choices.
Elf how can you get on your soap box about car drivers being dangerous when a few days ago you was bragging about getting done for jumping a red light on your bike. You could have caused an accident through your irresponsible action.
Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear oh dear....
I think you'll find, if you go back and read my op on that thread again, carefully, then take a moment to digest what is said therein, that I was merely posting up some information for other people possibly intending to behave in a similarly irresponsible fashion. I cannot recall any point where I was, as you claim, 'bragging' about any events which may or may not have actually taken place. And I also don't recall any actual details of any actual event being revealed in that thread either. IE, the information imparted in that original post could simply be based on a purely hypothetical situation.
🙂
(Looks at rest of this thread. Sees no solid argument supporting personal car use in general when perfectly viable alternatives are in fact available has materialised. Din't really expect any to appear anyway. Is unmoved from original position)
(Is mildly irritated by wierd forum glitch that results in double post. Isn't particularly perturbed enough to get angry. Contemplates going to Greenwich)
McHamish - Southwest trains rent Bromptons - that is why you occasionally see ones in SWT colors.Check the lost property area at Waterloo.
I did not know that...another useful post from someone willing to contribute.
There are some nuggets of useful information on this thread afterall!
Having lived without a car for 18 months, there are times when I'd love one still. But I do really appreciate the cash I save. I'll hire a car or take a train when I need to, but the upfront cost does tend to focus the mind on whether something is essential or not.
It's a compromise that could well be challenged by the arrival of my first child in a few weeks.
The only thing I find a bit rediculous is the polarised nature of the discussion. The key fact is that our lives have been arranged around the convenience of the car for a considerable time. No reason that can't be reversed, but it'll never happen overnight, a gradual shift in priorities is more likely. Or there will be hovercars that run on water.
I don't think there's any harm in looking at your own transport patterns with a critical eye every so often, or in taking them into account when making big decisions like where to live and work.
julians - Member
I like this forum it generally contains useful info and experience about mountain bikes/biking in general, but theres a lot of self righteous pompus balls spouted on it a lot of the time.To answer the OP, I drive to work because I enjoy it, and can afford to do it. If I enjoyed cycling to work as much or more, then I'd do that instead. These are the same reasons as why I go mountain biking, and do many other things, that no doubt lots of people on here would consider unethical/environmentally unfriendly/right wing/left wing/pointless etc (delete as you find appropriate). I dont have a reason that could be considered 'worthy' or righteous, and nor do I need one.
A lot of people on here need to learn some tolerance towards others choices.
Ohh the ironing. This is the second of these self referential posts.
Self righteous? Tick
Pompous? Tick
Lack of tolerance? Tick
I dont have a reason that could be considered 'worthy' or righteous, and nor do I need one
When your choices have negative impact on others, I think you DO need a worthy reason to be honest.
Of course we all have a negative impact, but it's best not to take the piss, surely? (not saying you do, because you didn't go into details)
McHamish - Southwest trains rent Bromptons - that is why you occasionally see ones in SWT colors.
Brompton and SWT seem to be forming quite a partnership at the moment. I have heard rumours that SWT were going to ban all folding bikes on their particularly busy routes, except Bromptons, because of the 'compactness' of their fold. As I say this is just a rumour, but if there is any truth in it it would certainly make Bromptons the weapon of choice for many commuters in London and would be a big bonus for Bromptons market share. Seems slightly unethical though...
And it's all very well to accuse us of greed for wanting the money that cities offer, but it's not like there are lots of low paid jobs in the countryside is it? There are not that many jobs of any kind
My point is many people choose to do that. And TBH I've no real issue with it, but personally I've always lived near to where I work. And I've never had a problem factoring that in when making career decisions. Then again if I worked at a Nuclear power plant 😐 one doesn't like to **** on ones own doorstep.
I'll hire a car or take a train when I need to, but the upfront cost does tend to focus the mind on whether something is essential or not.
Me too. I've often thought it'd be great to be able to lump all the upfront cost of motoring at the point you fuel it up. Not sure how it would work, but if people had to pay say £10 a litre to fill up and not buy the vehicle, pay rent, MOT, VED, insurance, servicing etc... Then I think they'd think very differently about it. If a car is just sitting on someones drive after they've paid, VED'd, and insured it, then it's the obvious choice really.
I'd like a hovercar that ran on water please.
So are we saying that everyone who makes a lifestyle choice which might negatively impact others or the environment must justify their choice to those who demand it?
In that case should all parents justify their choice to have children, particularly if you have more than 2/3?
Also, anyone who has taken or takes a holiday abroad, should they be required to justify this?
Anyone who has made a choice in their lives has justified it to themselves in one way or another. Why should they be required to justify their choices to someone else who thinks they know better?
I work all over the uk and have to be in silly locations at daft o'clock in the morning with up to 500kg of equipment. I can't do anything but drive to commute to my place of work. 😥
I'd like a hovercar that ran on water please.
Can you imagine the number of newly licensed teenage boys found in crumpled hovercars along meandering riverbanks?
So say your job is in the centre of a big city, as many are. Should you move your family to the city centre too? I mean it's not exactly going to be a lovely quality of life for your family is it, if you have young kids?
chiefgrooveguru - MemberI'd like a hovercar that ran on water please.
Can you imagine the number of newly licensed teenage boys found in crumpled hovercars along meandering riverbanks?
At least it would solve the cormorant issue. They'd all get flattened by commuting boy racers in suped-up hover crafts with tinted windows.
Does the reduced population over the past century as a result of road deaths offset the automobiles CO2 output? Or indeed the reduction in families with more than four children because you can't fit them in most cars?
I'd like a hovercar that ran on water please.
Better surely if it hovered on water?
I ask in all honesty. Can the services we have already, cope with any more passengers?
Anyone who has made a choice in their lives has justified it to themselves in one way or another. Why should they be required to justify their choices to someone else who thinks they know better?
True, but justifying it to yourself is quite unreliable and biased. Plus you may not have all the facts and information to hand. If no one told you that a car emits CO2, NOx, SOx, CO etc... then why would you bother with justifying it to yourself?
I suppose once a problem gets to certain size then society has to justify it's choices to itself as a whole. This includes our over reiance of cars, energy, fossil fuels, and consupmtion in general. If society is doing that to itself then it's got to filter down to individuals at some point, which is when McHamish has to start thinking about the choices he makes and weighing them up with how society feels about the negative consequences of his actions.
One peron justifying their choies to another person on an Internet forum is just that, but it's a taster of the route we're all going to have to go down sooner or later...
Having read this, it is really a bit one sided. You are asked to justify driving into town because your friend was knocked down. Firstly my sympathy to them, any injury like that is horrific.
Secondly, I commute every day by bike, and have done for 3 years. Before that I drove as I had a company car and use of an underground parking space. The comfort and convenience then was justification enough for me, and I am sure it still is for many others, though I though decided to change lifestyle and get fit.
I have no problem with cars driving into cities, but what should be in question here is the potential bad driving that caused the accident. Has the car driver been arrested, charged, taken to task. How did the accident happen and what was the cause.
I enjoy making my commute quicker than many mororised vehicles in both directions, but what gets me is the level of bad driving that is allowed to go unchecked. The penalties are negligible, and more peopel should be banned, after all driving is not a god given right.
So say your job is in the centre of a big city, as many are. Should you move your family to the city centre too? I mean it's not exactly going to be a lovely quality of life for your family is it, if you have young kids?
I could move right next to work. But an equivalent property to the one we're in at the moment, is roughly £450,000 - more than twice the value of my current property.