[Closed] LBS-How far do you go?

Why not try the bikes they recommend? They might be better than you think?

it's your choice, if no supply, no buy, but give them a try?

Just buy it off the net - it'll be cheaper, and you'll get what you want.

it'll be cheaper

Why is that then Ewan?

Yes I've bought a bike because its from my LBS and had cause to be grateful, having broken two frames and received great service from them - shame about the importer and manufacturer though! (Now a Cove hater!)

Don't beat yourself up dude, you sound really upset.

Its your money buy the bikes you want and still patronise the lbs for your knick knacks etc.

I use my lbs a little as I can get away with but they are still glad to see me (at lease someone is!).

You would not buy a car that was not your 1st choice from the [i]nearest[/i] dealer would you ?

Its unfortunate that you cant give your money to the people you would like to but its the bike [i]you[/i]want

If you think you know exactly what you want, it's going to be hard. Neither of my MTB's came from shops I frequent. I would echo the sentiments above, give their bikes a test ride and see what you think. I had to buy a Marin to support my LBS. Oh the shame 😳

Why is that then Ewan?

Well for one thing you could import from the states or europe, you'll probably benefit from economies of scale and lower overheads, and if people purchase from the best value supplier others will lower their prices or go out of business.

I never understand why people are happy to prop up businesses - fair enough if they offer the best price or value, but otherwise....?

Hi Ewan,

sorry you misunderstood my query, you stated that 'it'll be cheaper', inferring that it's always cheaper to buy off the internet - how do you support that statement?

Just interested 😉

I understand your angst - I always support local businesses and will def compromise on brand of car, tv, bike and loads more just to support local and independent. Local is not necessarily more expensive, mMy LBS gives me 10% off everything (club member) so that reduces the gap a fair bit and the service make up alot of difference as well. If purely price driven then supermarkets, halfords and www normally win but you are screwing society IMO.

My LBS will fix my bikes at a moments notice, order stuff in and if they can't get it (say Endura was a recent example) then at least they've had first chance and no harm done. Although small they deal with most suppliers / importers / distributors so can get most stuff in.

If a bike co won't supply them I would probably find another that would or buy the frame only and give shop a chance to provide all the other parts.

I like loyalty and service.

sorry you misunderstood my query, you stated that 'it'll be cheaper', inferring that it's always cheaper to buy off the internet - how do you support that statement?

My experience. I've found most things to be cheaper on the net - bikes included, although a lot of bike companies do appear operate pricing cartels with everyone charging the same to the penny.

ewan who does that?
i think marin did about 15 years back.
but other than that?

Marin was the company that sprung to mind... You rarely find much difference in price if you're after one of the big names.

You'd think with all these cartels we are in we would have a Ferrari each eh. Oh well.

mine is a 2 hour round trip..........

yer would bike chain everones just throwing money about in the trade eh?

Not at all. I can only see it from a consumers point of view, last time I brought a bike (earlier this year) I found the following:

- Dealers all offered the same bike, at the same price, no matter what the location. Call me cynical if you want, but I can't believe that every bike shop selling the model I was interested in has exactly the same overheads. If they don't then you'd expect (in a competitive market) the company with the lowest overheads would undercut its rivals to gain market share - but they don't. They all charge the same to the penny.
- Dealers tend to be very evenly distributed, to me it looks like dealerships are given out carefully to ensure that no one stands on anyone elses toes.

To me the above does not point to a remotely competitive marketplace. Feel free to correct me on this.

well put it this way,would you be happy if you had just spent 50 grand with one brand on stock to find that they had sold to another dealer just down the street?

Tell that to Tescos, or PC World, or Dixons, or for that matter your local cornershop. It's the magic of capitalism i'm afraid...

no ewan it doesnt happen because its not good for dealer or supplier.

Indeed it's not, but it would be good for the consumer in all likelihood. The fact it doesn't happen suggests that it's controlled by the supplier centrally - i.e. they don't give a dealership to anyone too near one of their existing dealerships, even if that dealership could offer the consumer better prices. Ergo, it's an anti competitive practice, even if it's not an illegal one (i've no idea if it is or isn't).

What are your thoughts on my first point - everyone selling at the same price?

no its not illegal price fixing is.
lets say you are that dealer and you have spent that 50k with a company.
they then sell to the guy down the road (wich is unlikeley but for the sake..)would you deal with them again or would you sell cheaper than everyone else clear em out and deal with some one that understands that you need a fair area to trade in? its not about control its just a bit of ballance for all.
current bikes stay at the same price more or less because there just aint that much in them margin wise and yes you would piss everyone off iff you started flog off on day one. thats dealers nationwide and suppliers.
if a dealer is flogging bikes way cheap the supplier will propably hear about it from another less than happy dealer.not much to do with cartells that.

Well the above scenario sounds pretty much like resale price maintenance. Something that is frowned upon in UK and EU law quite strongly, i'm guessing it's not formalised so it'd be hard to prove.

European Commissions definition is thus:

Agreements or concerted Practices between a supplier and a dealer with the object of directly or indirectly establishing a fixed or minimum price or price level to be observed by the dealer when reselling a product/service to his customers. A provision which foresees resale price maintenance will generally be considered to constitute a hard core restriction. In the case of contractual provisions or concerted practices that directly establish the resale price, the restriction is clear cut. However, resale price maintenance can also be achieved through indirect means: for example by fixing the distribution margin or the maximum level of discount the distributor may grant from a prescribed price level, by making the supplier’s rebates or his reimbursement of promotional costs subject to the observance of a given price level, by linking the prescribed resale price to the resale prices of competitors, or by threats, warnings, or even sanctions against a dealer who does not respect a certain price level (such as penalties, delay or suspension of deliveries or termination of contracts).

ewan shall i shout at you so you hear it better? NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING.

Don't get me wrong, i'm just trying to understand what i've observed. I totally understand that dealers need to make a living - i've got no legal training, i'm merely trying to understand...

if a dealer is flogging bikes way cheap the supplier will propably hear about it from another less than happy dealer

Presumably the supplier would want to keep the rest of his dealers happy, and would either stop the supply to the undercutter or tell the dealer to stop selling bikes off cheap? Isn't that indirect resale price maintenance according to he EC definition above?

Anyway the way it works at the moment is kind of fair for dealers and the consumer, it's not perfect, but it is fair. For eaxample.

If a shop commits to a brand it can, or often will, have more choice in terms of model and sizes of that brand, giving the consumer choice, they will also have the necessary backup in terms of rep support and warrenty etc.

If any old shop can order in bikes willy nilly from the suppliers then there is no encouragement for them to commit and support the brand, and therefor makes it easy for them to undercut opposition as they are given a promised sale and will not be left with redundant stock at the end of the year due to having stock that did not sell.

It's not great, but if it didn't work like this most shops would struggle due to more competition in an already tight market.

what he said and in reply to your quote the brand would just contact the dealer and say oi what you upto these folks over here are less than happy.
if the dealer couldnt give a toss then its tough.most folks are not like that though.

I haven't bought a bike from my current LBS, however in the last 6 years myself and my partner have bought 6 bikes from my old LBS with whom I have a pretty good relationship. However, it is 110 miles away - but, I can phone them up, tell them what I'm after and suggest a time when I could come up and they'll do the job. I can't get that service in London.
Buying off the Internet works for some things - but it doesn't work for others.
Conveniently I know from my local pub about half a dozen of the guys that do the work in the 3 or 4 local LBS's. They know that I'm not going to be buying a bike from them, however, they do know that I'll buy bits and things and recommend them to my not cycle oriented friends and colleagues because they walk the walk - and sometimes buy the beers!
I like service and support and am prepared to pay for it. With my old LBS I can phone them up 10 days before to ask them to get something in, suggest I'll be up the following Saturday and they'll get it in, fit it (or whatever) and get it sorted out on a Saturday. For me that's worth a lot of money, obviously I always take pastries, but I like to have things done, when I'd like them and the do that.
I can't see that off the so-called cheaper Internet.

I wouldn't buy a bike from my nearest 'local' bike shop to home even if they were nearly giving them away. In the 15 odd years I've had the misfortune to be forced to use them for emergency purchases of tubes, tyres, tools etc they've never failed to be churlish and rude or if I'm fortunate enough to have them actually talk to me, to offer wholly incorrect advice.

That said, there's a couple of fantastic independent bike shops within 30 minutes walk from the office who I'd be happy to buy via and probably will in the next 6 months. There's also an Evans and a Cycle Surgery - I was forced to use the former for a cycle-to-work scheme purchase and they tried to rip me off, the latter I made the mistake of using their workshop services and found myself having the parts replaced within 2 months. Wouldn't use either of them again.

Woffle, Sounds like your cutting your nose off to spite your face mate, you'll walk 30mins on a very long lunch break I presume to go to a bike shop? If you feel so strong about the high street stores then why buy with cycle scheme?

I always get great service from the former, but I often notice that sometimes they have to deal with to$$ers?

C