[Closed] LBS - Dont they want customers?

"Also why would you want to sell something cheap when the vast majority of customers are happy to pay RRP? There are alot more cyclists in the world other than the niche mongers on here."

But thats the sort of ludite attitude that will see LBS going to the wall.

From reuters "Capgemini and consultants IMRG said on Friday online retail sales rose 25 percent year-on-year in December to 6.8 billion pounds, taking the total for 2010 to 58.8 billion pounds, up 18 percent and far outstripping an original forecast of 13 percent."

So I think you will find more and more of the population are prepared to shop around online and get a good deal.

All I was ever suggesting is that maybe my LBS might wasnt to try and encourage my custom, not give me reasons not to shop with them...

Of course owning a proper, functioning internet shopping site costs peanuts.

Yes you can start from your home, employing your girlfriend or Nan to answer emails and packaging.

If you want to attract business, satisfy customers and carry on you need to do abit more..

Business premises. Yes you can use a Unit/large lock up but these also attract rent, business rates, heating/lighting, packaging and corporate tax etc.
Your Mum wont know about compatibility of products so you need to employ someone who understands the products to be your customer services. Plus you can talk/take up someones time on the phone/email just as much as in a shop. Then there is the aspect of orders going missing, damaged goods, misdescribed, online content managed, staff for this and to your hosting company etc etc.

Lets also be honest, from my experiences of most bike shops - the quality of the staff isn't ****ing great. So that cup of tea you offer, you know cost you 10p but you expect me to drop a few hundred out of my wallet at the end of it? Come on.

You'll also have to pay these people wages, NI contribution etc etc.

Then there are the two biggie's:
- Stock availability, you need to receive, store and HOLD quite a large selection. This takes staffing, square footage (extra rent costs), lighting etc. Comparable to the actual store space (the shop floor) of a LBS.
- Price sensitivity to the vast array of other online competitors.

So what really are the cost differences? To me, shop glass and maybe slightly higher rent. Yes you have display costs but lets be honest, LBS's take advance sales don't they on shop display model bikes so they win win on that part.

On the high street retailers in general- its only the shit ones that go under.

Plus I love the way some folk bang on about 'timewaster' customers. Smell the coffee, in the business world you can run through a huge tender, spend many man hours on it to be told 'nope'.

Quit ****ing moaning. 😆

I rang the same shop to see if they had the tyres I was after. Got the same advice, I'd be charged more if I went in there! Ordered them off Next Day instead.

Retail rent is about 2-6 times warehouse rent. Shop's need to be open 9-5.30 6 days a week (a warehouse you can get away with much lower staffing levels for the same volume of sales, and staff are ££££), so the cost isn't the same.

However having a shop website, and not offering a click and collect service is plainly stupid! You can have the item in the shop prices at RRP for jonny punter who doesn't spend 27hrs online to save 3p, and have it online at a price which is competitive in that market and not lose either customer.

Shop's need to be open 9-5.30 6 days a week

Do you really think that a properly run online operation is run on less hours than this?

In the early/expansion days of a website/shopping portal I bet the owner(s) and staff(s) will be replying to order questions etc longer than office hours...

Sorry I'm not having a go. I just don't like the fairy tale view of LBS's.

One last thing. Do you think as a loyal and regular customer you'd still be welcome if you walked in and said 'hey I no longer have any money'.

Its a business that schmooches you. Just like any other. It just happens to be attached to a hobby.

Hora, I speak from 10 years experience of running an online business(non bike), and 3 years experience running an LBS. Trust me, staffing levels and costs for online are a LOT lower than for a bricks and mortar shop, so much so that when I'm in the office I have plenty of time to post sh!t on STW, but when I'm in the shop I don't have time to have a sh!t!

Very few people actually phone up, that's the whole point of online. The warehouse staff can pick and pack a lot of orders in 4 hours per day. For the same staffing cost you can probably cater for 3-4 times the turnover, and hence allow your margin to slip.

I remember the last time I used my local bike shop, which I had been using since a kid ([b]MK Cycles[/b] in Bolton). I nipped in to ask them if they could tighten my BB cups up on my new bike I was building as I didn't have the correct tool. The guy behind the counter got stroppy calling me cheeky as its a business and they cant be doing all these things for free!!?? I never said I wasn't going to pay!! So I bought the right tool off him and left and have never been back - probably been a customer for 15 years previous to that.

I can't speak for a 'LBS' but I too have experience from both sides of the fence.

hora - Member
I can't speak for a 'LBS'

Druidh, retail industry in two sectors with lower price points.

Plus if someone wanders in on a Sat morning for a chat, just to hang round and browse. Whats wrong with that? Do your staff have somewhere better to be?

Other customers?

'Hang on a min Sir I'm just going to help this person'

Would hora like to remind us what he does for a living?

The point is if you have a bricks and mortar shop and you price at online prices it would not be financially viable unless your turnover was huge. (£millions)

He also forgot rates, which is often the biggest killer on the highstreet.

Hora. Use that bowling ball on your shoulders for once.

If I was setting up a large online retailers, the first thing I'd do is find out where had the cheapest warehousing in the country was. Because ultimately your geographical location is irrelevant - hence the Guernsey mail order tax scam. So you might as well pay next to **** all!

If you want to set a shop up, you need to be in a prime location. Did you read anything about Blacks/Peacocks/La Senza etc etc etc. Why they went into administration? Rents - thats why. Rents in prime business locations are absolutely extortionate!

binners - Member
Hora. Use that bowling ball on your shoulders for once.

If I was setting up a large online retailers, the first thing I'd do is find out where had the cheapest warehousing in the country was.

Location. You need to attract decent staff anywhere you locate and that they can commute to.

Being on a high st means your customers...and your staff can get to you.

How many bikeshops do you know that are in prime retail positions? The likes of Evans, not small LBS's for the main.

Peacock went bust before.
La Senza sells poly bra's and cheap tat. M&S and many many others do it better.

Yes these retailers ARE in prime City/Town locations. They are big chains.

Funny how the retailers who are doing well are also in the big locations 😉

Well as an LBS owner in Leeds, Ive seen the Internet change everything in the last couple of years.

Its just the ease of shopping on the internet not just the prices.

You can compare prices from a dozen sites in minutes, but you can do this whilst on a coffee break at work.
I read somewhere that 80% of internet sales are made at 2 in the afternoon.
Could be wrong on that one.

But running a friendly shop, trying to be fair on price, service etc etc.

Just isnt enough to be successful.

Ive seen a couple of well established bike shops in Leeds go to the wall in the past year.
For this industry at least IMO, its about online sales, and to compete in that you need a start up of about £180million

Had the same with the same shop.

Find item on line mmm thats a good price lets see how much postage is ?

Oh hang on it's now not such a good price factoring in postage.

I know ill ring them up as I live a mile up the road.

Hi would you be able to offer the same price for xyz that I have seen on - line if I pop down (ill no doubt have a browse round whilst there and buy something else I didnt know I wanted)

Shop - No web side is a different business - ok how about if I order it now on-line and then pop down would save you having to post it out ?

Shop - No we cant do that either.

Ok not quite getting this now it would appear for the sake of you not having to post it and me using my time/fuel to come and get it you would rather me not buy it ?

Got you ok will keep shoppig else where thanks .

Great business sense - live long and prosper 😯

charlie thanks for that, made me proper lol

To be honest, I'm actually surprised you've not been barred from most bike shops anyway Hora.

I bet their hearts sink when you walk in. I'd like the moon on a stick please. I'd like it to preferably be free. And I'll be back in next week to make a warranty claim for some perceived/imagined/non-existent problem as my new forks have not miraculously transformed me into Steve Peat

[img] [/img]

Anyway.. interesting article for you...

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/oct/23/cycling-retailer-wiggle-considers-ipo ]wiggles turnover = £86.8 million[/url]

😯

Your such a naughty wind up binners 😉

He also forgot rates, which is often the biggest killer on the highstreet.

What about other non-high st businesses, don't they pay that? 😉

Then theres Corporation tax and audit of accounts?

My point is its the customer who is squeezed most. Yet we are vilified if we try to make the most of our money.

We are talked about in a generic-derogatory way yet we are expected not to make our wage go as far as possible.

Rule one in business, don't insult your Customers.

This thread has been rather derailed - it's not about whether it costs more to run a normal shop than an internet business, and that normal shops have to charge more in general (anybody with sense can see that 🙄 ).

Also why would you want to sell something cheap when the vast majority of customers are happy to pay RRP? There are alot more cyclists in the world other than the niche mongers on here.

But why would you want to not sell at all rather than sell a bit cheaper to those customers who will otherwise just go online? Especially if you're prepared to sell at that price to somebody who goes to your own website. That bricks and mortar shop is sitting there running up overhead whether or not you make that sale, and you're not even making more money if they use the online part of your business rather than the shop.

Aye soak up all the sales. Better to take some margin than no margin at all sometimes.

ARacer, Hora +1

Obviously I dont want All Terrain to do this as its good for us that they are upsetting potential customers. 😉

Sancho are you crosstracks, or are you not at liberty to say on here ?

I am yes.

This'll upset the apple cart. Good service from All Terrain.

I bought a set of forks and new brakes front & rear from them online.
There was a problem with the forks' delivery to them. So the bloke from the shop rings me up the same day.
Short conversation later a different fork is arranged, at a lower price than on their website. About £30 less,
Whilst on the phone the bloke mentions that I'm local and asks who's fitting the bits?
I say yes very local, about 10 mins ride, plus my Mrs works in New Mill, the other side of the canal.
He offers to fit the fork and brakes for me, as he has the items in stock in the store.
How much?
£10.00 for the fork and the brakes he'll do for free.
I say yes please when could you do it?
"If you drop your bike off today I'll do it tomorrow for you."
Took my bike down, dropped it off at 17:40. 10 mins after they shut, he waited open for me.
Got a phone call the next morning to say it was ready for me.
A most pleasant surprise as I'd expected to have to wait then do it myself.

Not had a bother with ATC and will happily spend money in their shop if I need something in a rush or online if not.

I just phone up my LBS to see if they had any XT mechs in stock. Luckily they had. I asked for the price. Shocked when they reply came as ''How much have you seen them for online?''. Brilliant! They price matched me over the phone with CRC and I picked it up. Dosent get much better than that. Falmouth Cycles (owned by Derek Heelis).

Well said shredder!

It's definitely not only bike shops that do this.

I've had a couple of examples recently -

Waterstones had a book on their website for £10 than it was in store (Amazon was £5 cheaper still) - I was happy to pay £5 more and get the book straight away but they wouldn't match their own web price so Amazon got the sale.
Game and Gamestation - my son wanted a DS game and their instore prices were £8 higher than the web price and they wouldn't match them. Neither got the sale as yet again Amazon could beat their web prices by £10.

The likes of Currys/PCWorld, Comet will always match their online price if asked.
Likewise Evans cycles are good at this and will accept other peoples online prices to match too.

I had the same with Waterstones/Hugh's Veggie book. 1/2 the price on their site. The assistant even brought it up.

I know this as I googled waterstones, found it but wanted a flick through first so decided now I'd found it I'd do all the deed instore.

Nope.I'm a customer, I don't care anout cost models. All I think of is 'buy'. Don't confuse me trying to explain your inner workings as I, the simple customer will think somethings afoot...dodgy or a con. Sad but true.

Evans standby all their price matching on current (remember Evans only stock current items) stock. So its obvious there enough margin in their volume (or even normal) deals with distributors???