[Closed] brass neck in LBS

Mr Agreeable - Member

I reckon that placing a notional value of £10 an hour on your time, you're probably better off nipping to the nearest LBS and just plonking down the cash.

Unless you enjoy it, at which point it becomes a benefit rather than a cost.

the other issue with buying from a bike shop rather than online, is lack of choice.

I visited 4-5 different lbs over the course of a week looking for a pair of gloves to try on, i need xxl-xl gloves depending on make. Could i find them could i heck, but if i had i would have bought them (assuming price wasn't ridiculous) as i had them in my hand.

Sometimes it's just a hell of a lot easier to order online.

(TSY) Indeed Druidh... the money shouldn't be an issue though, I'd hope that the biking industry still allows for shops to get credit terms from the distributors.

But money is a very big issue for smaller LBSs. Working off ever increasing ammounts of credit from your suppliers is what Woolworths did.

This morning I had a phone call asking if I stocked GoPro cameras. The caller was not rude but obviously frustrated that he had money to spend but no-one locally with the right product to part him from it. I had to explain to him that round here he was very much a rarity and if I chose to stock GoPro I'd probably still have most of that stock in a year's time and struggle to get back what I paid for it.

But if a customer comes in and orders something from you that you don't have in stock... they pay for it, you order it... cash in the till right? When do you pay the distributor for it?

I am not suggesting buying for stock. Not in anyway.

When do you pay the distributor for it?

That very much depends on the distributor but it's really not uncommon for a strore to have pay up front.

That very much depends on the distributor but it's really not uncommon for a strore to have pay up front.

Wow! Completely different business model to any industry I've worked in... almost suggests that the distributor doesn't have faith in the LBS being in existance in a say 30 days (payment terms) time!

TSY - some of the suppliers themselves are small businesses and operate pro-forma to protect their cash flow because of size rather than a fear of a business not paying them.

yawn......this is getting as common as what tyre? are orange fives good?

im resigned to the fact that most of the folk on here are very switched onto online purchasing...if someone wants my help in the shop and theyre genuine ill give it but we do get an increasing number of customers who take the p*ss...like the chap who moaned i didnt have a barcode on an item so he could pricematch it on his iphone...i didnt have the speed of wit to reply with something sharp and cutting unfortunately as i was pretty shocked...

certain things we dont sell at all and we used to sell loads of...full face lids/pads/certain types of clothing i reckon has all gone to the online folk...so ill re-align what i stock and see if we can offer a great service/selection of kit to entice folk into a purchase... 😆

Pfft, I have to pay in advance for the bikes I import, often at least a month before they're built. I'm basically financing the manufacturers.

your bikes are a little off the norm though ben! ive got a local guy who wants a hase...can i send him your way....hes suitably odd! 🙂

Aye, please - I like odd people 🙂

Ah well TBC... what an industry to be in! Hats off to you guys.

I'd be happy to pay a bit more, in advance, to see my money going through the till of a LBS. TBH I've never even asked if a shop would be willing to do it... I've just been surprised when a shop owner has said they don't stock them, but could add it to their order so that I could collect it from them next week all for RRP, it's like they think the ineternet doesn't exist.

TSY - as TBC would confirm, it's not unusual to tell a customer to order it themselves as they will get it cheaper and faster. Many distributors have minimum order values and it can be difficult to make that up with other random parts. Some will even charge for delivery. Plus - many don't do next-day shipping to your LBS. throw in a weekend or Bank Holiday and timescales can start to look silly.

As we've covered in other threads, a proliferation of "standards" doesn't help either. Think of something as simple as a stem, then a headset. And then consider how often these standards change. A small shop cannot hold enough variation to satisfy the informed/fussy customers

As we've covered in other threads, a proliferation of "standards" doesn't help either. Think of something as simple as a stem, then a headset. And then consider how often these standards change. A small shop cannot hold enough variation to satisfy the informed/fussy customers

See also silly tyre sizes. 😉

as TBC would confirm, it's not unusual to tell a customer to order it themselves as they will get it cheaper and faster.

Sounds like a damn fine bike shop. The sort of one I'd happy to sit out a week or two with waiting for the new trinket I want as long as it was mutually convenient for them and their ordering etc.

I'll use a month's credit with my larger suppliers for the consumables that I can reasonably predict selling (cables, chains, tyres etc) but the more specialist or niche suppliers that I might use on an occasional basis I'll mainly pay proforma to keep the month end bills as even as I can.

The smaller a business is the more 'hand to mouth' the finances are and the more it hurts when you cock up and end up with stock that no-one wants.

I'd offer to price match, get the customer's home address then pop them in the post. Then refuse any form of face to face contact only accepting email or phone enquiries, which I would then ignore.

Apologies for being thick Richiethesilverfish, but suppliers must be cutting good (better?) deals for the online shops than the local bike shops to enable the lower prices? It can't all be down to lower overheads.

So whilst price fixing to the consumer is illegal, there is the ability for suppliers to support the LBS better by not cutting far better deals with online retailers.

Crc buy from shimano etc from madison at the same price as lbs's (as long as they're on premiere).

No. This is called price fixing and is illegal.

Tell that to Oakley. Or a lot of bike distributors. Seems that if anyone discounts the product they won't be sold to again - sounds like price fixing to me...

Tell that to Oakley

Or BOSE.

I can't believe crc buy at std Madison prices.

I can't believe it's not butter........

Economies of scale... the more you buy the cheaper it gets.

Well that's the way it works in other industries... otherwise if you're big enough you cut out the middle man.

Then, if you can afford to... you take out the middle man

Price fixing?
Jungle/stiff......

CRC can buy retail gear at the same price but they don't have the same overheads on some stuff. They also seem to get OEM which is at a different price and sell that as new too. Same as Merlin and the rest- They can't sell that many of those hardtails!!

They don't buy all their "Madison products" from Madison.
When they buy from Madison, they buy at Premier.

One of the other issues about RRP is that shops can get away with charging this due to lack of competition. For instance, have a look around your local area and you may see that there are few Specialized or Cannondale dealers. Those that exist will try to stop other shops in the area selling those brands.

I went into a Specialized shop to try on a helmet before buying online. But seeing as its a Spech helmet i'm buying I reckoned that was ok 8)

IIRC the Spesh concept stores are franchises, so just as bad as doing it in an lbs...

Richiesilverfish,
You said that "our network of IBDs across the country ensure that I care!" What did the network of IBDs say when CRC were selling turner frames at crazy cheap prices? Who supplied them to CRC was it silverfish or did they get them direct from turner or something?

Opening a LBS must be one of the worst business decisions that can be made reading this thread. I couldn't find anywhere to let me test an XL bike a few years ago, then they got the hump when I mentioned the price I'd seen the bike online for. they didn't get that the ony reason to buy from them was the hands on nature of seeing the thing in the flesh. They then tried to sell me a commencal mini downhill thing, as they did have a large one of them. They did eventually cut me a deal, but it wasn't a great amount less than RRP. But I thought the extra cash to still buy the bike blind was worth it for a bit of back up

The last time I used the lbs was when said new bikes front wheel bearing seized after about 100 miles, there was talk of jet washing and a charge to replace the sticking gear cables which a really muddy Merida had got to. Fine, I never expected them to be warrantied. But I never asked them to change them either. I paid my £20odd and have never been back.

I think unless you do something like On One and actually sell your own bikes, then a LBS can only cater for the mechanically inexperienced, or the buy a bike for birthday or Christmas crowd.

then a LBS can only cater for the mechanically inexperienced,

But that's actually quite a big market (I think - maybe someone on here knows better). The vast bulk of the folks I know here who have bikes all take them to the bike shop for fixing, even some to have inner tubes changed. This isn't specifically mountain bikes, just all the folks who have bikes. What they care about is that it is fixed properly and they don't need to go back 4 weeks later with a different problem.

I'd actually love a lbs that was welcoming and in anyway interested in making me feel better about spending 2k. Obviously this is just one shop and one persons experiance.

It would be a shame to see them disappear altogether.

RRP is actually illegal, The only thing a disti can do is tell retail what they pay, what they sell it for is up to the individual retailer. Everyone has different costs of sale so no reason for 1 price at x to be the same as y.

I support my local shops, usually get about 10% discount anyway as they know I give them a lot of business and have bought last 2 bikes from the same shop

Tried to use other well respected shop but when asking whether I could swap 9mm fork for 15mm and swap avid brakes to slx on a £2400 bike was told would be an extra £800, so they lost out on my business.

What's illegal is any kind of coercion on the part of the supplier to make retailers stick to a certain price. If retailers each decide that it's in their interest to make a reasonable profit and so stick to what the supplier suggests as a selling price, there's nothing at all wrong or illegal about that.

What's illegal is any kind of coercion on the part of the supplier to make retailers stick to a certain price. If retailers each decide that it's in their interest to make a reasonable profit and so stick to what the supplier suggests as a selling price, there's nothing at all wrong or illegal about that.

Ha, yes i'm sure that's exactly what happens.

Perhaps some of the distributors on here would care to comment on this point - if a shop decided to sell a bike frame at 10% less than your recommended price, would they be a distributor next year?

Well, a distributor would look at the whole picture - is that one retailer actually increasing sales for the brand as a whole, or are they ruining it for other retailers? Will they even be around in a year, if they keep discounting perfectly good stuff?

I try hard to support the LBS but a receant shopping spree was just too much to take.... shops can't match online but need to be closer..

I needed various things Forks, Brakes an other bits

Bill in my local shop was quoted £1060 online total was £748 via merlin and uk bike store ... 😯

Thats a massive saving im affraid...

Also latest purchase was shoes and yes i tried shoes on in evans knowing i was not buying them there..sorry 🙁 shimano ro87 road shoes £79:99 in evans Merlin £58:00 come on shops most of us would pay somewhere in between.....

But Evans would have price matched, no?

thats right..No they wouldnt

I don't specifically avoid shopping at my LBS because they're (probably) more expensive, I just really really hate shopping in general ... so buying online doesn't feel like shopping ... the experience is quicker and less depressing 🙂

I'm with TSY on this one.

If I walk into a shop and need something today (pedal snapped, tyre ripped, chain/mech/hanger bent) I'll pay RRP and accpet that it's not the right colour, or wasn't quite the band/model I wanted. On the other hand if I walk into the LBS and the the item i'm after is 3 weeks away then either I'd expect it cheeper than another shop (online), or at least matched, who can get them to me in 36 hours, otherwise I'm just being stupid!

On the other hand I've found another LBS (Westbrooks in Stokesley) who have online prices cheeper than CRC for clothing and by the time you get to the till it seems to be cheeper again!

I don't specifically avoid shopping at my LBS because they're (probably) more expensive, I just really really hate shopping in general ... so buying online doesn't feel like shopping ... the experience is quicker and less depressing

I agree - also, I quite like oogling over things online, without the hassle of being sneered at for not buying. I may go to CRC/merlin etc a few times, hover over the 'buy' button, then back off, only to buy later in the week.
The few times I've passed a bike shop, entered, and sauntered around, the "no thanks, just looking" comment is usually met with a feeling of distain and 'get out of my store you time-waster'. Sometimes I do just like to look, other times I may be tempted to buy - but don't always assume just because I haven't walked in with my wallet flapping in my hand that I'll [b]never[/b] buy from you....

DrP

thisisnotaspoon - Member
if I walk into the LBS and the the item i'm after is 3 weeks away then either I'd expect it cheeper than another shop (online), or at least matched, who can get them to me in 36 hours, otherwise I'm just being stupid!