Thats what I paid for my BMW motorbike 10 years ago
That was cheap, even then. It'd be double that now.
£40 an hour? what LBS charges that?
That's a tad on the low side. £40-60 is about right
It's mostly done on set pricing though. a £75 service should be under 2 hours work for instance.
I don't think they are at all comparable. The costs to run a car garage, the tools and equipment required and training for the mechanics is far greater than that for a simple bike shop
Rent and rates per sq ft is probably quit a bit higher for the average bike shop, though. Fundamentally, no-one in the bike industry is absolutely coining it in with repairs, so the costs can’t be that extortionate.
I always try to give back all the spare bits, as it saves me having to dispose of them. Some people want everything back, others are happy for me to pass them on to the local bike charity.
A bit weird taking your own parts to a shop.
No it isnt. We fit brought in parts all the time, we charge for fitting. We give all surplus new parts back and worn out/replaced parts are offered to the customer with the option of disposal for recycling if possible
If we were prepared to pay proper professional wages we would get better service.
That is not a given, you could just get the same service at a higher cost. It would likely be the same people...
Tired chains, cassettes, rings and tyres go straight in the bin/ scrap box. Pretty much everything else I give the customer the option of taking the stuff with them.
If a customer comes in with their own parts sourced from elsewhere we don't judge we just add a "wiggle tax".
"Par for the course for a LBS IME.
No wonder so many are dying. Natural selection".my thoughts also.
wiggle tax"
? Ehhhhh ? Quizzical face???
I collected my parts spitting feathers and so on.
Is there a cafe nearby where you could get a drink maybe ?
? Ehhhhh ? Quizzical face???
They charge more for fitting than if the customer had bought the parts from them.
Re cafeActually in the LBS, worst still I am a vegetarian.
Re quizzical face that is what I thought and still am disgruntled by the flexible charging system, currently not a LBS fan at all.
? Ehhhhh ? Quizzical face???
A charge to fit the bits, I imagine...
Let's just face it guys that most bike shops suck and that the more leeway you give them, they use that to shaft you.
Miserable sods at times who should ride more and remember that money doesn't grow on trees.
Oh and that bikes aren't BLOODY GOLD FFS!
Hate going to bike shops, always have done unless they have actually completed the relatively methodical way of building a bike for me without causing grief.
Always feels like I'm being taken for a fool waiting on phone calls for updates on where the hell my item is that I ordered like two weeks ago.
To the OPer, yes do it get your own tools in and experiment, a patient but methodical step by step approach pays dividends to turning parts into a complete.
Owners that see their business venture as the next best thing since sliced bread do my head in crack heads.
Waves a certain hand gesture to all those shop owners/workers etc that I will never bother ever to pay again for what I can do better in my time off.
🙂
The hourly rate conversation always comes up.
Based on paying a tech £9 per hour, giving him 28 days holiday inc stats, paying 13.8% employer NI and loading a £10k share of the overhead on the workshop, a one tech workshop would need to charge £36 inc VAT per hour to break even (£49,921 divided by 1,380 hours), based on achieving 75% efficiency every week of the year (unlikely).
They probably got into business to make a profit though, and when they do, they'll pay 20% corporation tax on that too.
Without thinking about the numbers behind it, most people will just see the 4x markup on an estimated hourly wage and assume it's profit. It's not.
Edit: If I was an LBS, and somebody walked in with a bike not bought from me and parts to fit, also not from me, then I'd want to clear at least £20 per hour profit, so about £60 per hour total, to make sure I built up enough profit to pay myself a wage for hiring somebody, stocking a shop, taking the risk and putting my house on the line, filling the coffee machine, covering damage and loss and so on.
? Ehhhhh ? Quizzical face???
Guessing that means they charge a little more for fitting the parts than they would if they were purchased from them.
I had a similar problem with one of my LBSs, had a busted cam in a RH STI, bike shop said I needed to replace both which is fair enough, they charged me for a pair. But they never gave me the 'spare' LH STI they'd taken off. Got fed up of asking in the end.
They must make a fortune from unsuspecting customers.
? Ehhhhh ? Quizzical face???
Example, If a customer buys a groupset from us we charge it at retail and fit for free or as part of a service at no extra charge. If a customer walks in with a groupset for us to fit then we will charge for a full strip and a rebuild fit it.
we don't judge we just add a "wiggle tax".
Customers know you do this. Some might suck it up, but others will learn to do stuff and blow you out altogether. Labour rate should be consistent wherever the parts come from.
I don't think anyone expects bike shops to fit parts sourced elsewhere for free, but most don't bat an eyelid when asked IME.
They're just happy to be working on nice bikes with nice bits usually.
Labour rate should be consistent wherever the parts come from.
free if you buy it from us, £some if you buy it elsewhere doesn't seem unreasonable to me...
Labour rate should be consistent wherever the parts come from
I agree, however, If we charge full RRP plus a full service to fit a groupset then this really is going to bump the price up to the point where it is prohibitive when compared to the internet guys. A balance has to be made where we can stay competitive and keep the lights on at the same time.
Simple really, you bring in any part of gear system we fit it and charge for a gear service as you'll want the gears to work. Same with brakes. There is no "wiggle" tax. Buy the part from us and we don't charge you for a gear or brake service
Based on paying a tech £9 per hour
I wish...
And I'm the workshop manager.
The general mechanics are on minimum wage. They'd earn more on a checkout at Tesco. Actually, so would I. I'd probably spend less time on the Internet reading that everything I do could be done by anyone with a set of spanners and everyone in my industry should loose their jobs as well.
There are doubtless some rogues in the industry, but don't tar us all with the same brush please.
Sorry, there was wine in the numbers, I'd ran two sets and it should have read 55% on retail jobs, and 45% of your time is taking to customers, building bikes, making coffee, milling around and so on.
Even at £7.05 an hour salary, on the same stats above would come out at £30.41 per hour retail inc VAT, before profit.
My mate of mine was baulking at the £90 per hour he's just been charged on his car, whilst happily thinking the £120 per hour for his tattoos is a bargain. I know who has the bigger costs...
There are doubtless some rogues in the industry, but don't tar us all with the same brush please.
This in spades - we should do another one of those threads where we call out the good ones; Cookson cycles, Keep Pedalling (stevenson sq manchester) popup bikes, Evan's Cycles Deansgate
yep, I feel kinda bad if I bring parts and ask for fitting but then again it's usually because I'm prepared to pay to avoid risk of my hamfisted damagefree if you buy it from us, £some if you buy it elsewhere doesn't seem unreasonable to me...
As I said above - plenty of decent bike shops in Edinburgh all with slightly different niches and competition drives standards up. Poor shops will go to the wall, good ones will flourish
Does anybody on here buy from Eurocarparts with one of their many 30% off deals and walk into the local garage with a boot full of pads, disks and track rod ends for them to fit or is only the "norm" in the bike world.?
When I was working in an Edinburgh bike shop we'd often encourage folks to buy their own parts (as they could get them cheaper than we could) and then we'd simply charge for fitting. That worked for some. For others, they simply wanted to not to have to think about it and were happy to pay our prices, though that usually meant free/discounted fitting.
Does anybody on here buy from Eurocarparts with one of their many 30% off deals and walk into the local garage with a boot full of pads, disks and track rod ends for them to fit or is only the "norm" in the bike world.?
Pretty common with back street garages. But most of the ones I use get their stuff from eurocar parts and only mark up their trade discount.
I've taken my own parts into garages before. Possibly because a) I've tried to fit it and failed (rear springs) b) I've bought the part and decided it's too difficult or I need special kit c) I want a specific brand, bought it elsewhere and taken it to the garage. Never had an issue with that. They charge per hour, why should it be a problem?
Also taken stuff into bike shops to be fitted because I don't have the tools myself. Headset cups fitted, charged me £10 IIRC, no issue with that. Also had brake mounts faced on a frame I didn't buy from them because I don't own a brake mount facing tool. No problem from the shop or from me.
The garage I use for my car always lets me supply the parts. I'll drop the car in the morning, he'll check the part number need and I'll get them delivered same day direct to him. GSF regularily send me 50%+ discount codes which the garage say is about 15% cheaper than they can buy them for.
The only caveat is that if I supply a part and it fails under warranty then I have to pay for removal and replacement, which is fair enough.
Same with at least 3 LBS's that I use. I generally supply the part and they fit it. I'll normally buy anything direct from them if its discovered during a service but other than that i'll supply the parts. Even been know for one mechanic to use his own stock and I'll get the replacement part from CRC sent to him to replace his stock. I pay just the CRC cost on my order. Saves him time as he can do the work there and then whilst its in the stand, and the bike isn't sitting waiting for me to get the parts delivered. If its not in stock at CRC then i'll buy the part from the LBS if they have it.
Its the above that means I go back to them time and time again.
Nowadays there’s a fair chance the lbs won’t have the part you want fitted.
On the point about differential labour pricing I've got no issue with that.
The owner is there to make a living. He can make that from bike sales, parts and accessory sales and servicing.
Each element of that will carry a margin of profit of some sort.
Unlikely that many would have an issue if it had been expressed as you get a 'discounted' rate on fitting the XTR groupset you just bought from the shop as the owner's absorbing some of the workshop overhead through the parts margin.
If you the customer bring the parts in then the owner is risking getting grief on parts they have made no margin on (the classic reboxed OEM product with missing bolts or connectors for example) and the hassle if the user mullers something first ride out. So you charge 'full' price which reflects that potential for having to rummage through the bolts draw and that sometimes a job is a bit slower than expected. I.e. you price where you don't risk an under recovery of workshop time.
As for the OP I'd be cross too. Anyone who works in an LBS workshop ought to/would know the value of those parts and returned them.
Nowadays there’s a fair chance the lbs won’t have the part you want fitted.
But they can order it in from the disti. At a higher price than CRC sell it for. And get charged delivery. And can’t return it.
This is why the industry is ****ed
Tomhoward+1
And of course the insane number of non-standards that now exist. Only a warehouse based business can really hold the necessary diversity of parts to be fully stocked.
My biggest challenge with both my (very good) LBS is that they've adopted an out of town approach.
If I want something from them it's an hour and a half round trip. I'm not going to do that journey just for consumables.
Nowadays there’s a fair chance the lbs won’t have the part you want fitted.
Only for the top end enthusiast market which is a tiny part of the market. Most folk ride bikes on the old standards and most lbs will have those.
ie 7/8/9 speed, non boost hubs etc etc
I was going to take a guess at which one this is but to be honest all the shops are the same.
Not true, always had good service from Leisure Lakes at Preston (well, Tarleton) and always had my old parts put in a bag and ziptied to the handlebars e.g. recently had a caliper swap from x2 to E4, all the old parts included with the new box that the new caliper came in.
Only for the top end enthusiast market which is a tiny part of the market
Thought it went without saying that we're talking about nice bikes? The OP is about some exotic titanium contraption and Hope headsets.
Even my warehouse-based LBS - which shifts a [i]lot[/i] of stuff online - struggles to keep stuff to cover all the "standards" now in use from stock.
Stop buying weird bikes and expecting everyone to know what they are.
Some pretty poor experiences with LBS workshops led me to buy the tools and learn how to fettle bikes myself.
As I only had to learn what's relevant to my bikes I would never say that I have the breadth of skills and expertise as a professional bike mechanic who (in theory) should be able to handle most maintenance/repair jobs for most bikes.
However, I would not want to impugn all bike mechanics working in LBSs as I am sure there are many good ones out there. Perhaps I was choosing the wrong shops.
I try to avoid my main LBS - not out of spite, but they have just been a bit naff in the past.
They liked to over-promise on when things could be done by and I have made at least two trips there to pick up my bike as arranged only to find lots of apologies, muffled shouting from the back of the workshop and "if you just want to walk into town and get a coffee I'm sure we can have it ready for when you get back" type comments.
They also installed a Hope Headset for me, used a star nut then put the expander plug in their spares drawer (might have been incompetence, might have been nefarious) - I had to ask for it back in any case.
They're not a bad bunch, but they're not brilliant either and getting a few tools together and doing it myself has been far easier (in most cases) than taking it to the 'professionals'. And it has helped me to understand how things work etc.
should Leisure Lakes be considered a LBS?
given that they have a few branches around the place now and they have an online presence too, albeit completely shit.
they are my nearest shop anyway, but i dont feel like they need my support.
i never use them other than for real emergency purchases (they charged me £9 for a tiny little bottle of 0wt30 suspension oil the other day)
i generally prefer to travel a little bit further to a genuine local bike shop if my bike needs some cash investment...
yes there are some that are a cut above, but many are just filled with grumpy ****ers with zero people skills
Are they mutually exclusive? I'm paying them to fix my bike, not deliver an engaging and witty TED talk.
And can’t return it.
I’m currently about £800 in credit with Madison because I returned a pile of Alfine stuff it turned out I didn’t need. Most suppliers are fine with returns.
If I did need to use an LBS workshop for anything, e.g. where the tools for the job are uneconomic for me to buy or my skills are't up to it (e.g frame preparation, wheel repair/build etc), I'd do plenty of research beforehand to try and avoid disappointment. I'd also be prepared to travel a reasonable amount outside my local area. Having more than one bike means nothing is likely to be an emergency.
Been there with the overpromising and bike not being ready when it's supposed to be...again. I'd initially phone ahead to avoid a wasted trip. If things have gone on beyond what's reasonable then going in person to try to sort things out is, I find, the best option.
I don't expect to be entertained by the people who work there. Civil and businesslike is good enough for me.
