Latest CTC "Cycle" Magazine - Faux Tubeless?

That sounds more like "Faux tubular" than "faux tubeless" to me.

I remember doing "Ghetto Tubeless" with a spilt 20" or 24" inner tube to get tyres to seal on non-TR rims, that worked but wasn't optimal.

I'm really not sure what benefit you get from gluing the tube into the tyre, seems like a potentially worse solution that either proper tubeless or just using tubes like normal as it makes a critical flat harder to fix, not easier.

Tubeless is great. That solution sounds messy. Tubeless is great.

Felt like a way for retro grouches to go tubeless without having to admit their initial dismissal was wrong and only replaces one type of faff with another.

Ive long wondered why manufacturers dont produce a pre-made system just like that. It would make swapping tyres a hell of a lot easier and less messy.

Also, no faff taping rims, and beads could be a lot simpler (and tyres not so bloody tight to fit) as the bead wouldn't need to create an airtight seal.

Tubular clincher anyone?

That sounds like a complete waste of time to me. Tubes are a good enough solution for lots of applications without having to be fixed to the inside of the tyre, and tubeless isn't really much of a problem with a bit of investment in the right tape and tyres. I don't see the need for a half-assed middle ground that solves none of the issues of tubes with none of the benefits of tubeless.

Pfft. Back in the day when it were all fields you bought a kit that had a dinky rim strip in it with a valve on, and some stuff that looks very similar to PVA glue with a bit of loosener (likely antifreeze) and glitter or chopped glass strands in it. You then applied it to your existing, completely bog standard, 26" rims and tyres.

I'd skip the daft gluing of inner tube nonsense and just try a bit of Stan's tape (or go on ebay and find it as Tesa 4289), some valves and the sealant of your choice. Any decent volume tyre (2" and up) will be fine.

That just makes no sense to me. What problem is that solving exactly?

If your rims aren’t tubeless, tape them.
If your tyres aren’t “tubeless compatible” just be prepared for some air loss and tubeless goo addition until they seal up.

I’ve been running tubeless since the ghetto tubeless days when a split 20” bmx inner tube provided the rim tape and valve, and the stans goo never failed to seal a tyre no matter whether it was “tubeless ready”. Do get a tubeless inflator pump though. I don’t miss my 3l cola bottle inflator days.

That sounds like an absolute 'mare.

What are you supposed to do if you get a puncture that won't seal and need to put a tube and a tyre boot in, when you've got an innertube already glued to the inside of your tyre?

I’m really not sure what benefit you get from gluing the tube into the tyre,

It may be to stop the tyre and tube moving relative to each other which seems to be why tubes with sealant in didn't really work for me when I tried it years ago (Pari-Moto 650 x 42s, great tyres but tube only and flat prone). If the tyre and tube are fixed (joined as one layer) then the sealant fixes the hole rather than getting into the gap between the two, as it does when pressures are low and the wheel's rolling.

Edit - read the article and that's basically what he's saying - makes the tube+tyre layer thicker and more sealable by the sealant w/o it just leaking out of the tube.

Tubes also stretch too much for a hole to be sealed with Stans etc so gluing to the the tyre will prevent the tube from doing that.

Giant made a tyre and integrated tube like this not long ago (to the same WTF Qs and comments)

It may be to stop the tyre and tube moving relative to each other which seems to be why tubes with sealant in didn’t really work for me when I tried it years ago (Pari-Moto 650 x 42s, great tyres but tube only and flat prone). If the tyre and tube are fixed then the sealant fixes the hole rather than getting into the gap between the two, as it does when pressures are low and the wheel’s rolling.

OK, That sort of makes sense I think it is more like a Tubular still though.
One important thing to note, you'll need to glue in tubes that have removeable valve cores to add sealant, and of course there's no way to remove glagged up old lumps of sealant, only top it up, so gradually over time you'll be filling that glued in tube with latex lumps, surely that's going to make it less effective by the time you're on your 3rd or 4th top-up?

Yeah, faux tubs is a good way to think of it.

I guess you just remove the tube after a few 1000 miles / months / 2nd top up. I find diluted art shop latex solution seals thorn holes even when mostly dry so it might last well enough, or be worth it for specific rides (audax events) or seasonal use. Richard Hallett seems to do enough miles to vouch for things like this.

Might be worth reading the article...most of the questions raised in the thread are addressed there, mostly in the 'Why bother?' section. In summary they're mostly that you can use non-tubeless parts and avoid the faff of tyre seating.

Also regarding the glueing he has this to say. 'Simply putting tubeless sealant in an innertube won’t fix this. The sealant will have a hard time sealing a hole as the tube wall isn’t thick enough to let a plug of sealant granules build up. The usual result is simply a loss of sealant to the gap between tyre and tube.".

The really weird thing is the tyres he's using, Grand Bois, they ain't cheap a pair is going to be £80~90 quid, plus tubes and tub cement it's a ~£100 Ghetto setup.
You could buy some pretty decent TR ready tyres and some Tesa tape for that...

I think it's really a bit of a 'retro grouch' / 'Beardy tourer' thing...

Tubulars with a bead (so no gluing, and sealant, if any, contained within the rubber) sounds like a great idea for certain applications.

Gluing tubes inside tyres and then filling with sealant seems to combine the worst possible elements of all tyre mounting systems in all categories of weight, installation faff and what to do with a major puncture...

I think it’s really a bit of a ‘retro grouch’ / ‘Beardy tourer’ thing…

I'd say those Pari-Moto 42s with lightweight tubes in were part of the most effective long-distance road wheelset I've used so far and I've not found a tubeless tyre that rides the same, those Grand Bois tyres are lighter again (and even more flat prone I expect). So if you prioritise that comfort-efficiency-speed mix I can see it being a good option. I still have some of those tyres and tubes..

jameso, audax/bikepacker/tourer, a bit retrogrouchy now but no beard

what to do with a major puncture…

In theory.. (ha) - I'd remove the tyre, cut open the glued-in tube (which would be a light/thin one ideally), trim the excess tube off if I CBA, then chuck a normal tube in - so similar to any other tubeless tyre with an un-sealable hole. So you'd need to carry a small penknife at least but I generally do on long rides or trips away.

Then remove the old cut tube and tub glue when at home, fix the tyre and add a new tube in.

Since the new tube holds the air not the tyre casing there's a chance you'd get a cut (then stitched/glued etc) tyre back on the road again which isn't always the case with tubeless tyres.

Interesting idea - prob bad for 99.9999% of riders but it will be good for someone somewhere.

Tufo tubulars have the inner tube annealed to the tyre like this. They're generally not very good, but the design does take sealant very well which most tubs do not. This version might offer advantages over a bad tub.

I briefly dabbled with trying to glue a strip of inner tube between the beads of a TLR tyre (e.g. not glueing a whole tube in, just the portion between the beads).

That way it would seat like a conventional tyre but you could still enjoy the lower rolling resistance of tubeless.

I seem to recall getting laughed off the forum (either here or descent world, I forget which) but a couple of people did grudgingly come round to the idea. Would still be a mega faff trying to neatly glue the strip of tube in place though.

I think it’s really a bit of a ‘retro grouch’ / ‘Beardy tourer’ thing…

I think it's designed to appeal to the CUK demographic who by and large are still bemoaning the loss of triple chainsets and friction shifters and who refuse to buy any perfectly workable bit of Modern Technology (cough, spit) when there's an alternative that's about half as good but cheap and can involve much bodging, fettling, improvisation, trial and error and eventual pride.

Used to get these folk in the bike shop routinely. They'd only come in if they finally admitted that they needed a part which they couldn't make themselves using Man Tools, bodgery and many evenings in the shed; then they'd demand their 10% CTC discount, wax lyrical about Campag for a bit, complain that things weren't as good as they used to be and then wander off muttering at the indignity of being served by someone young enough to be their grandson.

😂

I’d remove the tyre, cut open the glued-in tube

It does say in the article that the tube should peel away from the tyre relatively easily.

Tufo tubulars have the inner tube annealed to the tyre like this. They’re generally not very good, but the design does take sealant very well which most tubs do not. This version might offer advantages over a bad tub.

Ah, I was trying to remember the name. I used them for a bit in what would be now considered laughably narrow diameter (18mm I think). Rolling resistance tests showed they were just marginally better than walking through a vat if porridge.

I read the article and thought WTF. But it did say one of the big benefits is getting some of the benefits of tubeless puncture protection for people running touring rim brake rims. Given this is CTC, sorry Cycling UK, there will be a fair few running retro cantis in some obscure french wheel size where tubeless ready rims are not easy to come by. Add the 40 year love affair with a specific tyre that doesn't come tubeless ready either and it does sort of make sense if you close your eyes and squint a bit.

Tufo made a tubular clincher for a while - a tubular tyre but fitted with a bead to hook onto a clincher rim - didn’t catch on.

One of the benefits of tubeless is reduced rolling resistance - there will still be hysteresis losses between a tyre and tube whether glued-in or not..

Just appears to be a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist.

I'm sure my first 26" tubeless was basically an inner tube cut in half, tightly fitted (24" maybe) which did the same job as taping and worked brilliantly. Think it was a Joe's flat kit

If the tube can easily peel away from the tyre, surely there's a risk of the tube/tyre separating if you have to poke a tubeless repair worm thing in.

Then you'll have sealant and air leaking into the space between the two, which isn't sealed because it probably isn't a tubeless compatible rim/tyre combo.

It does say in the article that the tube should peel away from the tyre relatively easily.

It does doesn't it - clearly I hadn't read that far when I posted how I thought I'd fix it! I guessed the tub cement would fix it in place securely enough to make that tricky if trying to fix a non-sealing flat by the road, you need degreaser to remove tub cement usually, but if it peels off as suggested all good. As others have said it's a bit niche but I have a bike and some tyres where this could be worth trying.

If the tube can easily peel away from the tyre, surely there’s a risk of the tube/tyre separating if you have to poke a tubeless repair worm thing in.

Maybe at that size of hole you just replace the tube. I don't get many holes in road/gravel tyres needing a worm, I've used Superglue powerflex instead a few times for glass or flint cuts, it's effective and might be more suitable here.

I think we're over thinking things with regard to repairing rips, tears and big punctures that need plugging. They probably aren't mtbing somewhere rocky.

For the type of person considering this setup, the biggest problem will often be thorns from hedge clippings - for that this could be a very good low cost / low hassle solution - the only expenditure is a splodge of glue and sealant without trying to get unsuitable tyres to seat and seal tubeless on unsuitable rims.

For any bigger punctures they are no worse off than their standard setup - i.e. rip out and replace the tube and shove something in to temporarily cover the gash in the tyre.

Thanks all,

I only asked because I have a range of 26" non-tubeless tyres for winter riding that really don't seal up well wiht stans.  They leak like seives!  Rims are fine and it's really defending against thorn punctures I'm interested in...

I thought it seemed loads of faff for little gain!